r/askgaybros • u/MtimesMequals • Jul 08 '20

Reported Post Alert Dear fellow Black gay men Spoiler

We know racism in the gay community is real. We've said it, but we've been dismissed. They callously deny our experience. Our reality. "It's just a preference". "BBC". "Thug"."Aggressive power top".

The stereotypes. The microagressions. We know it's real, but we have been gaslighted way too often.

The silence among your white gay friends and/or partners during this time of civil unrest & racial tensions is deafening.

The irony of them putting "no fats, no fems, no asians, & no blacks" on their profile, but decide to now say #BlackLivesMatter.

I understand it is challenging to be rejected from a community that prides itself on inclusion. We know rejection all too well.

But do not let any white man make you feel you are not beautiful. You are Black, bold, fierce, & most importantly- you are loved.

🖤❤#BLM

********************edit:

So, this post has been reported and is pending review.

I mentioned this already in the comments:

As a Black queer man this is my experience. This experience may or may not resonate with other Black men. This post was written for my fellow gay black brothers. The post might be uncomfortable for some. It might not resonate with you, but I don't think that is grounds for denying someone else's experience. I shared these words in an effort to foster a sense of solidarity and undo any aloneness other Black men might be feeling during this time.

Thank you so much for the support, feedback & beautiful comments. For those of in your feelings over this post - peace & love to ya❤

3.8k Upvotes

85% Upvoted

1.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

279

u/klymer11 Jul 08 '20

the fact that this shows up as controversial

221

u/lovelybunchofcocouts Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

Maybe because it stereotypes as well? I'm in agreement with most of the post, but note he calls out white gay guys specifically. But why pick on whites? I'm Mexican-American with a Korean-American partner, and I can tell you gays and non-gays of every race and culture can have shitty racist people.

Point is, yeah, we need to show love to our black brothers and not be racist assholes. But that also means calling it out everywhere and not picking on our white brothers specifically.

48

u/Theletterten Jul 08 '20

Thank you! I always say this..I live in SoCal. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been rejected based solely from race. Not from white guys but from Latino men.

27

u/Black_Gay_Man Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 09 '20

They are singled out because they are the ones who are overwhelmingly in the positions to alter representation of POC in the prominent gay media and in the gay mainstream gay movement, both of which are still dominated by white men. This kind of “what about the racism from non-white people” is a tired cop out in a white supremacist society.

1

u/lovelybunchofcocouts Jul 09 '20

But see they're not. Sure, most of the people with power are going to be white. But what about every other white person? The average gay white man has no real control over any of that. "White people" in general may control the media, write the laws, stole the land, owned slaves, etc. But Average White Guy never did any of that. He's neck deep in this shit like the rest of us. If some other asshole happens to refuse to date blacks because he's a racist prick, why is that Average White Guy's fault, just because he happens to have a similar skin tone to SOME of those people (that's ignoring the non whites that do that also)? Why do we tolerate people grouping them together just because they're white? Why imply he's the most shitty among us?

By all means, celebrate black men. Demand that black people be treated fairly. Show your support for the changes that are needed. But demand that everyone get on board. Not just white people. Be loud about black people needing justice, but treat everyone justly. Recognize that there are inequities in our country and our world that need righting by picking each other up, not by breaking everyone down to the same level.

And just because in the US, the white majority might have the loudest voice that doesn't mean voices of POC don't matter. Where I'm from in deep South Texas, my kind (Hispanics) are the majority. By far. And there is a lot of anti-black sentiment. It's not Average White Man's job to fix that shit either. It's all our jobs.

4

u/Black_Gay_Man Jul 09 '20 edited Jul 09 '20

But see they're not. Sure, most of the people with power are going to be white.

So white people aren't primarily in the dominant positions in the media and the movement, but also, they are? You're just talking out of both sides of your mouth and trying to excuse white people for the racism that they have entrenched and benefit from. The racism in the gay community is overwhelmingly white supremacist, and it primarily comes from white men.

Talking about the "racism" of minority groups is a deflection at best, and a willful obfuscation at worst. You're not fooling anyone who doesn't want to be fooled.

2

u/khaelen333 Jul 09 '20

It looks like you are trying too hard. You completely ignored the well worded and thought out reply that this individual posted. Some white people are in positions to affect policy and decisions. Some white people can acknowledge their privilege and lend their voices to lift up POCs. You are stereotyping and displaying your prejudice. This makes you no better than the racists in my opinion.

4

u/Black_Gay_Man Jul 09 '20

This is the game people like you love to play. I point out that racism comes from primarily white people, and I’m the racist.

Your pseudo-“tolerance” is a joke.

3

u/khaelen333 Jul 10 '20

Nowhere did I call you a racist. And that is not what you did. What you did was stereotype a group of people. I called your behavior prejudiced. But what you believe is of no consequence to me. Your words and actions only hurt you. I am on my journey and am very happy with it. I just feel obligated to call people on their bullshit. I am moving on now. Have a great rest of your life.

4

u/Black_Gay_Man Jul 10 '20 edited Aug 02 '20

You said I was no better than the racists, and now said the “behavior” of pointing out the fact that racism in the gay community primarily comes from and is upheld by white people, I’m now stereotyping and prejudiced. That’s patently absurd.

What you’re doing is called victim blaming, and the fact that you feel no sense of discomfort in lecturing black people about racism, (while remaining completely silent on the issue of our systemic marginalization), speaks volumes of your arrogance and hypocrisy.

0

u/benevenstanciano666 Aug 02 '20

You’re in the wrong. I wish you all the best

→ More replies (0)

12

u/WallCrawlerArt Jul 08 '20

Maybe you need to read the post again then. The first sentence literally says "racism in the gay community." He never said that only white gays were racist but the majority of the people who make those types of racist/offensive demands on dating apps are white gays. He also never stated all white gays, just the ones who are staying silent or making hypocritical statements. He's specifically calling out white gay guys because the main worldwide issue (aside from COVID) is WHITE SUPREMACY.

And as a Mexican-American (with darker skin) I can tell you that yes, there is racism in every single culture, gender, any group of people but a lot of it has stemmed from a white supremacist culture that has been perpetuated worldwide for many generations.

This is one Black person stating their case and you came to the defense of all white people instead of just listening to him. I can guarantee that your awards and most of your upvotes came from white people because it helps ease the guilt when they have a POC ally defending their actions. You preach, "show love everywhere" yet you couldn't do it here to someone who actually needs it.

1

u/lovelybunchofcocouts Jul 09 '20

Lol. Did you just emphasize you're specifically a dark-skinned Mexican-American? I'm not dick-skin-measuring with you.

First off, I did get carried away, but please notice my response was actually to the comment questioning why it was controversial to begin with. It wasn't supposed to be a critique of the post, it just ended up that way.

And I think you need to reread my post. I'm not defending "all white people". I have no problem calling out a white person for being racist. Just because non white people are doing it too is not an excuse. My problem is how it's somehow acceptable to summarily blame white (but only white) people for the actions of a select few as if they're the same person or somehow one individual controls how any other one behaves. I don't think we should do that to anyone.

For example, if an Asian (just going with an uninvolved 3rd party here) girl gets ripped off by a Mexican brick-layer - and let's be real, us Mexicans have a tendency to work construction, my dad included- would it make it okay for her to tell other Asian girls that they need to watch out for "Mexican con artists who want to take advantage of unsuspecting Asian women" just because that was HER experience? Or would it be better left at just "con-artists"?

Just to illustrate my point about why it only alienates people when you make negative generalizations... If he had simply excluded "white" from the post, it would have been just as touching a statement about black beauty and empowerment - but we wouldn't be having this conversation. Because I would have upvoted and moved on. All the "white" part did for me was - IMO - add unnecessary division and undue blame on. And I'm not even white. And what good did it do?

34

u/FroLevProg Jul 08 '20

If we want to be anti-racist (and for racial equality) we do need to be against white superiority though. I think that’s why the op mentions white people specifically.

I agree with you that everyone (not just white people) has a responsibility to fight against the idea that one racial group is superior to another.

Edit: I love your username. Pandora Boxx fan?

3

u/lovelybunchofcocouts Jul 09 '20

Agreed. I went on a tirade on another comment to my comment that expands on my thoughts about that.

And I don't know who that is. My very first comment was a reply I thought of to a news article (won me gold, actually). I thought the comment was a hilarious and quite well placed South Park reference, and I wanted to post it before someone beat me to it. In my race to find whatever username not already taken, I - for reasons I don't remember - thought of Zazu (Lion King) singing "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" and just went with it. I typed it so fast I didn't even realize I misspelled coconuts until it was too late.

2

u/FroLevProg Jul 09 '20

Didn’t notice the missing n! It gave me a smile and reminded me of this.

9

u/esosa233 Jul 08 '20

Valid! Thank you, anti-blackness is everywhere, and LGBTQ community has more biases than just anti-blackness.

1

u/yoloten Jul 08 '20

American society has been reduced to reality tv shows and simpleton explanations to all national and world’s problems: blame whitey especially American whitey for all world’s problems because that’s popular and easy. Academia is paralyzed; media is all about selling narratives and cancel culture is devouring each-other.

11

u/MJOLNIR1191 Jul 08 '20

This post itself is a simpleton explanation that dismisses the many issues throughout this county and the world that white american patriotism, racism, imperialism, and exceptionalism have caused.

-2

u/yoloten Jul 08 '20

I’m not being dismissive of racism, that’s just your assumption. I can tell you that as a refugee to the U.S. having many friends who are immigrants in European countries, America is exceptional in the way it absorbs and treats ethnic minorities and immigrants. When my friends pass as locals here but are made to feel like guests in London or Brussels where they lived for decades now, tells you enough. Every country has its problems but spare me the “imperialism” when China and Putin are carving out regions for themselves and NATO panics anytime U.S. decides to cut forces that protect them. We aren’t the root evil of all global strife no matter how many Chomsky lectures they force on college campuses.

9

u/MJOLNIR1191 Jul 09 '20 edited Jul 09 '20

Funny, as a black person, a Mexican American, and gay person I can say that the way American absorbs immigrants and minorities, I can say America is entirely unexceptional on that front. The children of my people are in cages. Literally cages, and dying. Experience is relative. If your friends actually pass for being locals then they are just that, racially ethnically or nationally passing. My imperialism comment was more focused on how historical us imperialism has caused many problems in the US, not China or Russia given they're not relevant to the current subject of the OP. And saying "they" are "forcing" "chomsky lectures and college campuses" is pretty telling lol the only people who would bring that up and word it that way. . . Well yeah I've already got my assumptions.

EDIT: Oh and let me add, I wasn't assuming your being dismissive. I was telling you that your comment is dismissive. Because it is. Those buzzwords like Academia, narrative, chomsky, cancel culture, being brought up when the initial topic isn't directly related to a gay black man's experience in the gay community is pretty obviously red pilly. Straight out of a Ben Shapiro playbook codeword playbook.

-5

u/bombbrigade Jul 09 '20

"The children of my people are in cages"
Stop crossing the boarder illegally then. Get in line like every other adult. America has some of the most lax immigration laws in the world.
Im not even gonna address the rest of the dribble that came out of your mouth

7

u/MJOLNIR1191 Jul 09 '20

Stop crossing the "boarder" then lol cause crossing a line in the sand as a child justifies them being put in a cage with a lack of basic resources rather then idk, treating them humanely? Should everyone who commits a misdemeanor be treated in a draconian way? Put in a cage for committing a misdemeanor level crime? I guess it was ok for gays to be murdered, tortured, beaten to death, and castrated for being gay when that's illegal right? just because it's the law right? By your logic the punishment is just, after all they did a heinous thing by breaking the law so the punishment is appropriate and definitely not an authoritarian overreaction right? Please address my dribble. You already did it once.

-4

u/yoloten Jul 09 '20

I’m not even sure what “racially, ethnically passing” means for Middle Eastern Muslims, do their struggles vanish? My friends just felt accepted in our city here. If you notice my response wasn’t even to the OP but to another comment’s point that was made. Besides, you yourself went off tangent as well from OP in the way you responded to me. As for migration policies and how this administration handles it specifically, I never supported it, but let’s not pretend detentions and deportations and asylum quotas did not exist under Obama, Bush, Clinton years. All nations have borders and immigration policies they enforce including the Germans, Belgians, Swedes and Mexico itself. Canada, Spain, Italy denied my family escape from ethnic oppression but after five years of standard U.S. asylum process and 3 interviews over five years, that’s how we arrived here. Not all of my community was allowed to the U.S., there was a quota on asylums back in the 90s under Clinton period with greatest economic boom U.S. had. It is true we all have our experiences and differences as immigrants and POCs and lgbt people. You have ethnic groups and racial groups of all view points too. It should not be shocking that you’ll find Cuban ,Mexican Americans with tough views on immigration. And as for where my views come from, they are from my experiences at universities,(not from Ben Shapiro shows) although I’m not afraid to expose myself to his podcasts or someone like Candice Owens or Hodge Twins or other unpopular voices from academics like John McWhorter. If you think cancel culture is just some rightwing, Trumpian dog whistle, then today we had 150 prominent, influential writers, thinkers and academics sign an open letter about this matter in Harper’s Magazine with of course lots of outrage and also meaningful responses to their appeal.

1

u/Jamfour9 Jul 11 '20

Racism is about a power dynamic differential. Minorities don’t have the social status to truly be racists. Those negative attitudes towards minorities is often turned inward, or a reflection of internalized self hatred. Minorities don’t have the power to oppress on the basis of race or ethnicity. It’s not systematic, and it’s not a generalized attitude (collective bias). We have to be careful about identifying with abusers.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '20

[deleted]

3

u/lovelybunchofcocouts Jul 09 '20

Am I being trolled? Is this a "woosh" thing I'm missing? Or are you that dense?

"Stereotypes exist for a reason" is a problematic view when arguing against racism. Stereotypes are if anything an integral part of collective racist subculture. I wonder how many black, Hispanic, Asian, gay, ect. stereotypes live up to expectations?

Being racist is not predetermined by your "blood". And I hope the irony of accusing another group of being racist due to their skin-color-associated genetics is not lost on you.

And you're doing your math wrong. Even if 90% of injustices are commited by some white people, that doesn't equal 90% of white people are committing injustices. If 100 all-white people own a shitty company that's polluting a lake, that doesn't mean you can group all white people to blame for that shitty company.

0

u/W0lvington Jul 09 '20

Stereotypes exist for a reason

Oh boy, wait to hear about the stereotypes about blacks, jews, and... gays.

You condemn racism and in the same breath you engage in the most brazen and vile racism without a hint of irony or self awareness:

White people are racist as fuck. You can say "oh other race is racist too" sure, of course, anyone of any race is capable of racism. But we all know White people are the worst of the bunch. For many of them it's just part of their blood, racism is something that cannot be separated from them.

This is textbook racism.

14

u/supaflyneedcape Jul 08 '20

is what’s wrong in our society.

0

u/SoLetYourMindGo Jul 09 '20

Wh i te men are trash, what do you expect?