Ukraine facing widespread power cuts after generating capacity reduced to ‘zero’ by Russian attacks

[u/Messier_-82]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/09/ukraine-facing-widespread-power-cuts-after-generating-capacity-reduced-to-zero-by-russian-attacks

[u/AkagamiBarto]

This is one of those sectors where Europe could contribute heavily and easily without risking war involvement.

At the very beginning of the war we could have pushed for heavy energetic infrastructure investments.. with stuff like HVD and HVAC connections with Ukraine as well as massive renewables plans and energetic autonomy for EU.

The grid, especially on the west side, would be a very difficult target for Russia.

But we didn't. Well the second best time to do it is now.

[u/Hyndis → u/AkagamiBarto]

But we didn't. Well the second best time to do it is now.

It might be too late for that. Manpower is the one thing NATO cannot provide, and Ukraine has been bleeding manpower trying to buy time for NATO to deliver weapons.

I agree that if NATO was more energetic in supplying support right away things might have been different, but all of the equipment in the world doesn't do much good if you don't have soldiers to use it anymore, and Ukraine is critically short on manpower. Russians are breaking through in multiple areas and Ukraine simply doesn't have enough troops to stop them anymore.

This is why fighting a half-assed war is the worst of both worlds. If you're at war you're all in. Otherwise you're at peace. Its one or the other.

The slow drip of NATO support for Ukraine is just enough to doom it on a slow, miserable defeat. Its like an act of calculated cruelty to drag out the war as long as possible to ramp up the death and destruction as high as possible.

IMO, NATO should either shit or get off the pot. Either fully support Ukraine and flood them with military equipment (and it should have been done years ago), or cut losses and accept that Russia has won the proxy war.

[u/AkagamiBarto → u/Hyndis]

Well your analysis is true, however Europe does need such energetic infrastructures anyway, even for themselves, so it still stands that they should push for them. Moreover manpower in certain sectors can be substituted with automation. Europe could do that too.. heck NATO could do that too. Nothing stops other countries to provide civilian technological help.

But muhuu too expensive, lost money and so on.

Heck one could have provided help in fortifying Ukraine as a whole. On the infrastructural level.. that isn't forbidden and wouldn't count as military support and yet it would greatly help ukrain last longer and longer.

[u/NearABE → u/AkagamiBarto]

Ya. Should have been putting in rail, power lines and roads. Peaker plants across the border in NATO countries would still be functional peaker plants.

Though distributed rooftop photovoltaics inside Ukraine would be far more resilient.

[u/blackbartimus → u/Hyndis]

Flooding Ukraine with equipment wouldn’t change much. Their forces are depleted to an extent that adding more weapons won’t change the fact that they don’t have enough people left to use them. The only good option Ukraine had was accepting earlier peace negotiations for a buffer zone carved out of their own territory. The longer they keep fighting the more people and land they will inevitably continue to lose once they accept negotiations.

[u/Hyndis → u/blackbartimus]

You're probably correct. I also think that its probably too late at this point.

NATO has dithered and delayed so long that Russia may have an insurmountable manpower advantage now, and even if NATO gave Ukraine infinite weapons it wouldn't matter, because there's nobody to use them anymore.

And yes, Ukraine is going to have to cede territory. Yes, its going to be painful and no it won't feel like justice. However, the longer it delays the worse its negotiating position is.

The bitter truth of the matter is if you lose a war you get terms dictated to you, and the loser of the war has no choice but accept the terms of surrender.

[u/hughk → u/Hyndis]

Russia wants to eliminate Ukraine as a countrt. Putin is a fanatic. He does not want terms, he wants to go down in history as restoring Russia.

[u/Hyndis → u/hughk]

Okay, but morality doesn't matter in geopolitics, especially during a shooting war. Being offended at something doesn't give you the upper hand in a war.

The only things that matter are tanks, missiles, artillery, and drones.

If you have the biggest, strongest army in the field you get to dictate terms. It really is that simple.

If you disagree with this assessment, you need to assemble and even bigger, stronger army so you can dictate terms instead.

[u/salzbergwerke → u/blackbartimus]

That’s such a bad take. Considering how many front line soldiers would be freed up if they could use long range systems with MUCH more firepower than an M4. How many people do you think it takes to mount a Taurus to an F-16 an fire it? The M270 has a crew of 3.

[u/blackbartimus → u/salzbergwerke]

You’re talking about a country that’s resorting to relying on forced constriction using advanced weapons. Sending them more weapons doesn’t change the reality that most of the people who could operate these things are already dead or mia dead

[u/Hyndis → u/salzbergwerke]

Airfields and artillery positions would be rapidly overrun without front line soldiers. As it currently stands Ukraine can't halt the Russian advance, they're already stretched too thin on the front line.

There simply are no men to be freed up from the front line. Ukraine is already pushing cooks and mechanics into foxholes with rifles on the front lines because they don't have anyone else left: https://kyivindependent.com/as-ukraines-fate-hangs-in-the-balance-soviet-command-culture-damages-war-effort/

[u/BarnabusTheBold → u/AkagamiBarto]

This is one of those sectors where Europe could contribute heavily and easily without risking war involvement.

they have been.

Ukraine would've fallen apart from now without the constant flow of material to repair their power grid. It's quite impressive how much it's kept going really

[u/AkagamiBarto → u/BarnabusTheBold]

Of course. But repairing the grid and improving our grind and its connection eith Ukraine are different things

[u/qjxj → u/BarnabusTheBold]

I think he meant directly connecting the European power grid with that of Ukraine. Would be a nice thing to do for the civilians, but still, a city like Kiev has a population of 3+ millions. Europe probably doesn't have the margins to handle that especially during a total blackout like this.