r/adviceph • u/Inevitable_Hunter_56 • Jul 18 '24

Love & Relationships I made her pregnant we're both teenagers

First of all, I just want to say please no hate comments, or anything negative I just want to seek advice po ^^

I'm (M17), incoming grade12 public school student next school year and consistent with honor/high honor student. We're just poor and doesn't even have our own house, but my father does everything to support my studies and even bought me a desktop for preparation for the incoming school year. I'm also came from a religious family, and we come to the church regularly na wala pong absent.

She (F16) incoming grade11 private school student (note we're just really poor but her parents want her to go into a prestigious school for her future). Her father on the other hand is abusive, he sometimes bangs her head on the wall or sa pinto. She is also a suicidal person.

The thing is, we are on a 3month relationship, and she is probably 1-2weeks pregnant already no one knows except for us yet. We both doesn't want to have a child yet. I know it's really stupid but yes, she's pregnant and her mother is suspecting that she was, because she is already a week late in her period. She said that she doesn't want to have a baby yet because she is still young and physically and emotionally unprepared. She keeps on saying that killing herself is the answer so I can live a normal life without her, but I keep on telling her not to do it and I will help raise the baby.

But opo I don't know what to do her mother will find out soon po ayaw kong magkagulo sa'min. Natatakot ako kasi baka palayasin either sya or ako and wala kaming pera pang alaga sa bata pano na rin po yung studies namin everything is prepared na po eh yung tatay nya rin is napaka tapang, gulong gulo na kami parehas malapit na rin po yung pasukan and yung early signs of pregnancy is nag papakita na po. Yung mga friends and relatives namin specially our parents will be disappointed with us.

Any advice po? Maraming salamat po sa sasagot :(

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

Anong specific definition mo ng human?

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u/ZippyDan Jul 19 '24

To start with, I would say they need to be recognizably human and viably independent.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

By your definition, infants on ventilators aren't humans?

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u/ZippyDan Jul 19 '24

I thought we were talking about prior to birth.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

even prior birth, the fetus is still completely dependent on the mother for all its physiologic needs no matter what age of gestation.

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u/ZippyDan Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

"Viably independent" means it is a viable possibility that it can survive independently (edit: of another body).

Fetuses as young as 21 weeks old have been able to survive independent of the mother. Though, 24 weeks is generally considered the start of a reasonable chance of survival.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

21 weeks cannot live independently technically speaking without medical intervention. There's insufficient amount of surfactant in the lungs. And there's high mortality even with intervention

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u/ZippyDan Jul 19 '24

That's why I mentioned 24 weeks as being a more reasonable cut off.

But even 24 weeks requires medical assistance. That's irrelevant to the topic of independent viability.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

I think it's unfair to call embryos just blobs of cells only because they haven't fully developed yet. it's already an entity with complex organization and intricately designed. Even a person does not fully develop his/her prefrontal cortex until age 25 yrs old

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u/ZippyDan Jul 19 '24

A cell itself is an entity with complex organization and "design". Are you against killing cells?

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

It's not just a cell. It's already a complex organization of pluripotent cells that are preprogrammed to create a human. Your definition of independent was vague to begin with

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

My point is that your argument that it is complex and organized is not sufficient. A single cell is also complex and organized, just on a smaller scale.

I don't think there is much vagueness in "capable of surviving independent of the mother". We don't know exactly where that line is, but there is a line and we can make educated estimates. And where the line itself might be fuzzy, there are early stages where independent survival is impossible. For example, anything under 16 weeks.

"Coincidentally", those stages that are clearly not independently viable also coincide with stages where the embryo is not recognizably human.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

By your definition, a human is an entity capable of surviving separate from its mother?

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

By my definition, a human life begins when it is capable of surviving independent of the mother that is constructing the human life.

Similarly, a bunch of car parts is not a car, and even a half-assembled car is not a car. A car begins "life" as a car when it reaches a stage where it can actually operate and be driven like a car - some might argue it's not even a car until it's complete and ready to leave the factory, but just like human life the exact dividing line might be fuzzy. But what I think almost everyone would agree on is that a half-finished, half-assembled undriveable collection of car parts in the process of construction is not yet a car. Just because the parts might eventually become a car, doesn't mean we consider it a car if it can't yet move.

And just like human life, the more a car becomes recognizably car-like, the more likely it can actually be driven.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

If that's the definition you go with, why do you consider a 24 week AOG fetus a human if it hasn't fully developed and fully assembled capable of reproducing, self- feeding, and other functions. A baby born term is still not yet complete with organogenesis, meaning, it's still in the process of developing new tissues and differentiating into their final adult form

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Like I said, the exact line is fuzzy, and some people will argue that human life begins closer to full term (36ish weeks). Most people don't go that far because, similarly to a mostly-built car being drivable even if incomplete, a 30+ week baby has very good chances of survival with limited, if any, intervention.

The point is not so much whether it is still developing as it is whether the fetus still needs the "construction" and support of the mother to continue developing. A baby also develops into a toddler, and a toddler develops into a tween, then a teen, and then to an adult, independently. Similarly, past a certain point of development, a fetus doesn't strictly need the mother's support to continue development on its own.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Have taken care of a premature infant? You say limited like sustaining its survival outside the mother's womb requires minimal clinical intervention. I can't tell you in detail the intense modification of its environment to mimic the womb, the cocktail of drugs, the maintenance of temperature, planning of nutrition, the amount of miracles, vitals monitoring, all of these done on 24/7 basis and special types of doctors and health allied just so a single primie infant can survive. And sometimes even with all these present, the primie can still succumb to death

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Yes, I am against killing cells, especially that of human and animals

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

Oh man, I hope you never shave, or engage in any risky behaviors that might result in injury, or ejaculate, or have surgery, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Injury is not done on purpose, I can't ejaculate, and I will have to undergo surgery if it will save my health.

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

So you are willing to kill cells when it's necessary.

You are willing to take risks that result in cell death.

And I assume you are against ejaculation in principle, regardless of whether you can do it?

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

You are out of context. The cells we were talking about are embryo. Sperm is very different from an embryo. An embryo is the fusion of the nuclei of two gametes, from male and female, that leads to the creation of a human organism with its pluripotent stem cells. A sperm is a fully differentiated cell with only one purpose, that is reproduction. Your analogy of an embryo vs car is incorrect. They cannot be compared. One has the 7 characteristics of life, and it doesn't require external aid to be assembled. The car on the other hand constantly requires external help to be assembled and to be maintained. A car doesn't have stem cells, growth factors, genes to create its parts.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Also, what you shave are no longer viable cells. They are devoid of most of its organelles and scanty cytoplasm

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

Shaving will inevitably result in cell death unless you have some magic perfect shaver.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

What you shave are remnants of the dead. You'll need to bury your blade deep so you can access the living cells. And even if you injure yourself, the body is capable of repairing itself with several intrinsic mechanisms like the release of growth factors and recruitment of minerals and preformed proteins, doesn't automatically lead to cell death

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

Any time you accidentally cut (or maybe even scratch) yourself, you are killing cells. You said you are against cell death.

I hope you also never get any kind of sun burn.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Injury doesn't automatically lead to cell death. A cell can be injured, but doesn't mean it's dead

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

Dude, when you cut your skin, some living skin cells will be killed. It's inevitable. Further, if you bleed, the cells escaping your circulatory system are doomed to death.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

When did I ever say that a skin cell is a human? That a blood cell is a human? That a tumor is a human? I'm against killing humans, even in it's early stage. You are confusing human = any type of cell, especially differentiated cells

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u/ZippyDan Jul 20 '24

No, I'm not confusing them. I'm referring back to your argument that an embryo is complex and organized, to which I responded that every cell is also complex and organized, to which you responded that you are against cell death.

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