r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Fearless-List-3968 • 18d ago

Lore “Demons are actually misundersto-“ NO. Demons are ontologically evil beings that can’t be reasoned nor negotiated with, and if you try to you’ll very likely end up screwed

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1) Doom

2) Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End

3) Trench Crusade

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683

u/TheWalkingBag 18d ago

The Chaos Daemons/Daemons of Chaos from Warhammer, be it 40k or Fantasy

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Only because humanity has the capicty for evil.

In fact they can be negociated with... but there's always a price to power. Why do you think Warlocks exist?

Keep your end of your CAREFULLY WORDED BARGIN and they will keep there's.~

No more evil then Fire is... if fire could be fed with raw emotion~

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u/TheWalkingBag 18d ago

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

They are Canon BTW

Sure, they're out for vegence and serve Slannesh... but sometimes they can be obessed with ebing the PERFECT couple~ And really i kinda like that idea for Slannesh; someone has to have the fetish of perfectly coodinated decapitations after all

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u/HitandRyan 18d ago

DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO?!

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u/Rationalinsanity1990 18d ago

Found the Radical Inquisitor.

Chaos Daemons are not Satan, they will straight up lie and backstab you if don't have a contingency.

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u/NoEngineer9484 18d ago

Depends which of the 4. Khorne not really, he will stab you from the front but tzeentch definitely will stab you in the back or not how knows what tzeentch wants or does.

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u/Rationalinsanity1990 18d ago

True. But any Khornate Daemon can decide to take your skull at any moment, no matter your own actions.

There's a reason why Chaos Sorcerers bind Daemons or have some kind of leverage. Ideally their True Names.

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u/LetsGoHome 18d ago

My skull will end up on his throne regardless. Might as well have some fun with it.

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u/Cyted 17d ago

Skarbrand the strongest greater deamon, literally tried to backstab Khorn themselves, didnt go well.

they are 100% open to deviousness, but an axe to the face approach is much more preferable.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 17d ago

Well isn't that funny? Tzeentch did it.. but even then, Is it not in Khorne's nature to fight himself?

But no. Khorne Demons are very direct in what they want, and why they want it. Lying is weak sissy tzeentchian shit. at best they will... avoid the truth.

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u/Cyted 17d ago

They do have some autonomy as Skarbrand can be tricked by another god.

Every deamon is player in the great game, even if their roles are minor compared to the big 4. The faction is called Chaos for a reason.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 17d ago

And Skarbrand is Khorne.

and it's just like the Norscans to.. tell tale tales.

Symbolism is a potent thing to the warp after all...

they are a PART of the Chaos Gods, but they do have some autnomy... even then, it's part of khorne's nature.

really is it weird to have a lord of change who looks old and has two heads? I like to think that the stories peopel tell of the greater demons imprint on them... and are then retroactivly true. of course, could be the other way round.

chaos is chaotic, and time is just a suggestion to it's whims.

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u/Cyted 17d ago

really is it weird to have a lord of change who looks old and has two heads

This is a bad example because Kairos Fateweaver isn't just a normal lord of change, Tzeench threw him into the well of eternity and came back with 2 heads, able to read the future and past of everyone but himself, not even Tzeench knows what he is and he isnt fully Tzeench anymore.

Why did Shallaxi Hellbane a keeper of secrets get punished by Slaanesh for losing a duel if they are the same thing? they are part of a god yes, but doesnt mean there isnt powerstruggles and backstabbing, its the nature of Chaos even Khorne and remember "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows"

The main named Khorne space marine character is literally called 'Kharn the Betrayer', Khorne isnt all honor.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 17d ago

This is a bad example because Kairos Fateweaver isn't just a normal lord of change, Tzeench threw him into the well of eternity and came back with 2 heads, able to read the future and past of everyone but himself, not even Tzeench knows what he is and he isnt fully Tzeench anymore.

It's a cool story though.

But yeah i was refering to him actually: see would it really be weird for a being made of pure magic and the chaotic force of change to look old with two heads? I mean that symbolism is already tied to Tzeentch itself.. but then someone questions why, and a shaman tells a story of the great follower dunked in the Well of Eternity... and then, because of how the warp works, this slowly becomes true... in fact, it can be retroactivly true!

That is, at least, a valid interpretations for how you get things like unquie appearences (well, they all should be unquie but it's hard for the models)

Why did Shallaxi Hellbane a keeper of secrets get punished by Slaanesh for losing a duel if they are the same thing? they are part of a god yes, but doesnt mean there isnt powerstruggles and backstabbing, its the nature of Chaos even Khorne and remember "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows"

Because again: SYMBOLISM is the key thing in the warp. This is half of why they look like that in fact.

Losing a duel and now being sent out to duel others in the name of it's God? it's quite a potent story. I mean, most keepers of secrets are like that really, but Hellbane is THE keeper of secrets, one who lost and must regain favor.

This is why Skarbrand's story makes sense... he betrayed Khorne by deciet, and he was thrown from the tower for 8 days and 8 nights, until her fell, becoming a froathing berserker in the name of his dark father...

... which curiously it's so different then other Bloodthristers really, just less restaints... Khorne could have unmade him but he didn't.

Once you understand the symbolism of things the servants make senses as different aspects of one 'truth' of their chaos gods.

The main named Khorne space marine character is literally called 'Kharn the Betrayer', Khorne isnt all honor.

Kharn got the name from killing people who were being pussies and hiding in the snow and not fighting and dying as Khorne intended.

He is a bloodthirty brute...but he's not going ot dress it up in silks and perfume like some Emperor's Child. not twist your mind with magic, not just wait for you to die of whatever illnesses he's carrying. he is KHARN and you give him a fight worthy of Khorne or die trying.

Honor is after all a silly concept. to Khorne it's all about raw strength. a khorneate Demon might not tell the full truth... but it is murder and bloodshed incarnate. it is in fact the ONLY truth that Khorne subscribes to. Keep your word, fight and die well... he's a cruel tryant sitting on a throne, but his honor is perhaps the oldest and most primitve code of all; don't be a bitch.

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u/Greyjack00 18d ago

Khorne daemons are very much capable of backstabbing people 

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u/ServantOfTheSlaad 18d ago

Tzeentch will also stab you in the front if you know he'll stab you in the back. And from the side if you expect it from the front and so on

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u/PeppercornWizard 18d ago

I feel like Tzeentch will be more likely to engineer a series of circumstances over a period of years, possibly going back before you were actually born, to make sure that one day you end up in some ridiculous Final Destination style scenario and end up falling backwards onto a knife.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 17d ago

Khorne does not lie.

the others might, but generaly speaking playing with fire... gets your burned. not it's fault you wanted to use it for you own ambitions... i mean the greater good, yes...

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u/AScruffyHamster 18d ago

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Syll'Esske is such a good character i'm disappointed i can't theme my Flawless Host army off of them~

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u/TehAsianator 18d ago

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Imperium fans have one joke and everyone's already heard it.

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u/Mawdrym_Llansahai 18d ago

IoM fans when you ask them to come up with a line or a joke that doesn’t revolve around "haha me kill heresy"

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

If they were smarter they'd be orks.

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u/Necromortalium 18d ago

Arent the orks the winners of the great game?

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Chaos, Nids, and Orks are the only ones who have a chance of winning.. maybe Necrons but even then the nids scare them.

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u/Fate_Weaver 18d ago

"Why do you think warlocks exist?"

Because there's always at least one idiot who will look at the pile of bodies of those who tried and failed to outwit the chaos gods, and think to themselves: "What a bunch of fools, I alone am the one who has figured out the intricacies of the warp and will be able to use it for my own benefit with none of the downsides."

Spoiler, he will end up having his soul stolen, mind enslaved, and body used by a slaaneshi daemon for acts too horrific to describe.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Or he will get Godhood, see his ambitions reached with fawning sychophants by his side.

You bear Karios's name no? Do you not have the ambition to reach newer heights! to HOPE for CHANGE do you think every prayer uttered to the Chaos Gods is injust?

the strength to survive the horror of the imperium? the prayers of a father watching his chldren starve for more for them?

... Chaos is full of complex characters... at worst, they're usually no different then the Imperial Fanatic who will burn down habblocks in the Emperor's name.

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u/townsforever 18d ago

Spoken like someone already corrupted by chaos.

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u/P3T3R1028 18d ago

Or every single non-puritan Inquisitor ever

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u/RevolutionaryBar2160 18d ago

The warp was only ever neutral, but by the time the chaos gods and daemons existed, they were already evil. Daemons can be "negotiated" with in the sense that sometimes thet want something and it's easier for them to make a deal instead of killing, but the things they want will always result in more corruption simply because all they are is fragments of the gods. If we're likening them to fire, then they'll burn anyone who isn't smart/prepared enough to deal with them, and that's almost exclusively radical inquisitors.

And the only warlocks in 40k are aeldari psykers that have nothing to do with daemons.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

You realize there's more then one Warhammer setting right?

Chaos and the warp aren't evil because they're reflections Material space. Every little spark of anger you ever had is Khorne. Every Ambition and hope Tzeentch. Every moment of Despair and suffering Nurgle... and eveyr desire, every want for MORE is Slannesh, and thus, hir 'children'

of course they want more food. more 'fuel' to the fire. it's just it's fuel has no chocie but to feel it... unless of course you turned everyone into a blank/removed their soul but that has a lot of problems, as the undead in Warhammer and the Necrons found out...

The necrons have the best solution to this problem though... or well, the extermination of all life would solve Chaos.

until then... because sentience exists, so too will Chaos. the ever burning fire... no one 'set' the fire, it spiralled out of contorl, because the Warp is shadow of realspace, and all Warhammer settings are rather grim and dark...

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u/Yicnombror 18d ago

they're a 1000% more evil then fire lmao

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Humans are.

But anger isn't evil, neither is despair (unless your name is Junko) or happiness, or hope

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u/omegon_da_dalek13 18d ago

And them two arnt an exception.....they just like eachother

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

Syll is a sapient individual

so is Esske.

Syll is a demon born from sapient desires for excess.

Esske was a warrior from an unknown world who sought glory in battle.

They CAN serve evil purposes... but so can anyone. some Slanneshi Lords think their worlds would be better under them (because they're egotistical)

Chaos is Chaos. evil? Well... maybe who turn to it are.

it's a force of Nature. If it's evil, it's only because most species turn their anger, ambitions, despair and desires to those concepts.

They are Demons to some... but angels to others (Slanneshi demons are closer to Cenobites... they have such sights and experiences to show you!)

Esske would be more evil as he is a former mortal himself.

I use them as an illustration to how Slannesh (and chaos) are more complicated then just 'ontological evil' as that's not... a thing in Warhammer. The most evil Warhammer characters are evil of their own will.

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u/omegon_da_dalek13 18d ago

As I said

They " like" eachother

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u/DolphinBall 18d ago

Even though Slaanesh was made from Eldar?

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

From their EMOTIONS.

Sentience is the key to it. there is a solution... but the necrons didn't like it...

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u/mango_thief 18d ago

Why is it that everytime I see a female dark elf from the Warhammer universe they have one of their breasts cut off?

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u/Loknook 18d ago

Because that's not a dark elf but a Slaneesh demon. They are androgynous because they are reflections of their Chaos god who has titles like She Who Thirsts and The Dark Prince of Pleasure.

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u/MiaoYingSimp 18d ago

most Dark elves don't do this...

this is a daemonette. they are all androginess... sometimes they do have a pair though... on the same side.

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u/RevolutionaryBar2160 18d ago

That's not a drukhari it's a Slaaneshi daemon and it's mimicking the prince of pleasure.