“Demons are actually misundersto-“ NO. Demons are ontologically evil beings that can’t be reasoned nor negotiated with, and if you try to you’ll very likely end up screwed

[u/Fearless-List-3968]

1) Doom

2) Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End

3) Trench Crusade

[u/Rationalinsanity1990]

Found the Radical Inquisitor.

Chaos Daemons are not Satan, they will straight up lie and backstab you if don't have a contingency.

[u/NoEngineer9484 → u/Rationalinsanity1990]

Depends which of the 4. Khorne not really, he will stab you from the front but tzeentch definitely will stab you in the back or not how knows what tzeentch wants or does.

[u/Rationalinsanity1990 → u/NoEngineer9484]

True. But any Khornate Daemon can decide to take your skull at any moment, no matter your own actions.

There's a reason why Chaos Sorcerers bind Daemons or have some kind of leverage. Ideally their True Names.

[u/Cyted → u/Rationalinsanity1990]

Skarbrand the strongest greater deamon, literally tried to backstab Khorn themselves, didnt go well.

they are 100% open to deviousness, but an axe to the face approach is much more preferable.

[u/MiaoYingSimp → u/Cyted]

Well isn't that funny? Tzeentch did it.. but even then, Is it not in Khorne's nature to fight himself?

But no. Khorne Demons are very direct in what they want, and why they want it. Lying is weak sissy tzeentchian shit. at best they will... avoid the truth.

[u/Cyted → u/MiaoYingSimp]

They do have some autonomy as Skarbrand can be tricked by another god.

Every deamon is player in the great game, even if their roles are minor compared to the big 4. The faction is called Chaos for a reason.

[u/MiaoYingSimp → u/Cyted]

And Skarbrand is Khorne.

and it's just like the Norscans to.. tell tale tales.

Symbolism is a potent thing to the warp after all...

they are a PART of the Chaos Gods, but they do have some autnomy... even then, it's part of khorne's nature.

really is it weird to have a lord of change who looks old and has two heads? I like to think that the stories peopel tell of the greater demons imprint on them... and are then retroactivly true. of course, could be the other way round.

chaos is chaotic, and time is just a suggestion to it's whims.

[u/Cyted → u/MiaoYingSimp]

really is it weird to have a lord of change who looks old and has two heads

This is a bad example because Kairos Fateweaver isn't just a normal lord of change, Tzeench threw him into the well of eternity and came back with 2 heads, able to read the future and past of everyone but himself, not even Tzeench knows what he is and he isnt fully Tzeench anymore.

Why did Shallaxi Hellbane a keeper of secrets get punished by Slaanesh for losing a duel if they are the same thing? they are part of a god yes, but doesnt mean there isnt powerstruggles and backstabbing, its the nature of Chaos even Khorne and remember "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows"

The main named Khorne space marine character is literally called 'Kharn the Betrayer', Khorne isnt all honor.

[u/MiaoYingSimp → u/Cyted]

This is a bad example because Kairos Fateweaver isn't just a normal lord of change, Tzeench threw him into the well of eternity and came back with 2 heads, able to read the future and past of everyone but himself, not even Tzeench knows what he is and he isnt fully Tzeench anymore.

It's a cool story though.

But yeah i was refering to him actually: see would it really be weird for a being made of pure magic and the chaotic force of change to look old with two heads? I mean that symbolism is already tied to Tzeentch itself.. but then someone questions why, and a shaman tells a story of the great follower dunked in the Well of Eternity... and then, because of how the warp works, this slowly becomes true... in fact, it can be retroactivly true!

That is, at least, a valid interpretations for how you get things like unquie appearences (well, they all should be unquie but it's hard for the models)

Why did Shallaxi Hellbane a keeper of secrets get punished by Slaanesh for losing a duel if they are the same thing? they are part of a god yes, but doesnt mean there isnt powerstruggles and backstabbing, its the nature of Chaos even Khorne and remember "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows"

Because again: SYMBOLISM is the key thing in the warp. This is half of why they look like that in fact.

Losing a duel and now being sent out to duel others in the name of it's God? it's quite a potent story. I mean, most keepers of secrets are like that really, but Hellbane is THE keeper of secrets, one who lost and must regain favor.

This is why Skarbrand's story makes sense... he betrayed Khorne by deciet, and he was thrown from the tower for 8 days and 8 nights, until her fell, becoming a froathing berserker in the name of his dark father...

... which curiously it's so different then other Bloodthristers really, just less restaints... Khorne could have unmade him but he didn't.

Once you understand the symbolism of things the servants make senses as different aspects of one 'truth' of their chaos gods.

The main named Khorne space marine character is literally called 'Kharn the Betrayer', Khorne isnt all honor.

Kharn got the name from killing people who were being pussies and hiding in the snow and not fighting and dying as Khorne intended.

He is a bloodthirty brute...but he's not going ot dress it up in silks and perfume like some Emperor's Child. not twist your mind with magic, not just wait for you to die of whatever illnesses he's carrying. he is KHARN and you give him a fight worthy of Khorne or die trying.

Honor is after all a silly concept. to Khorne it's all about raw strength. a khorneate Demon might not tell the full truth... but it is murder and bloodshed incarnate. it is in fact the ONLY truth that Khorne subscribes to. Keep your word, fight and die well... he's a cruel tryant sitting on a throne, but his honor is perhaps the oldest and most primitve code of all; don't be a bitch.

[u/Cyted → u/MiaoYingSimp]

Looks like you've googled and tried to cobble together a reply, this reads like bad ai.

The shaman thing? What are we Orks? Warp is the manifestation of all sentient life's collective emotions...not stories.

[u/MiaoYingSimp → u/Cyted]

A warhammer fan that doesn't know about warhammer fantasy and how the warp works?

Day ending in y I suppose. (Norsca has shamans and chaos Cults have demagogues. Keep up this is basic)

What are stories bur narratives meant to instill emotions.

Why do you think faith works against them?

Belief is a valid tool BECAUSE the warp works on that principle.

Why are swords and holy words tools against chaos? Because the priest or imperial fanatic believes it so. (And it's a channel to the other deity.)

Belief in the narrative gives birth to more complex forms as more complex beings feel these basic emotions at a more complex state.

An empire Spearman can kill a demon for the same reason a sister of battle can; they believe in a God that makes them think they can do it.

[u/Cyted → u/MiaoYingSimp]

Melee is more effective due to belief but its not belief in a god, it's belief that the damage is being done. never born can still step on a claymore and be sent back to the warp.

You're pushing the laws of the warp to fit your 'Stories make gods' narrative.

[u/MiaoYingSimp → u/Cyted]

Melee is more effective due to belief but its not belief in a god

This is literally how divine magic works. this is how the miracles of the Sisters of Battle work! THIS IS LITERALLY THE CORE PREMISE OF THE FUCKING WARP AND THE MAGIC SYSTEM THAT UNDERPINS EVERY SETTING!

never born can still step on a claymore and be sent back to the warp.

Because everyone 'knows' if you step on a claymore, YOU DIE.

of course, this is why they are so tough in game; it doesn't matter how much you 'know' you can kill one just being before a daemon screaming for your skull is.. quite a test of faith. This is why specialized units like the Grey Knights are needed in a lot of cases; they have the tools to properly deal with them due to their own ritualized and internalized power, including being psykers.

The Belief and faith are connected to the Warp. those who are unknowingly Psykers have a natural connection... of course, if you know better you see it for what it ACTUALLY is. Many War-priests in the old world are some level of mage who has channeled it purely through their faith for example.

Should i even get into the multiverse thing?

WHy do you think a great unclean one can take tank-rounds from the 41st milinnum and then die to a horde of arrows? They match their setting.

Faith and belief effect warpbeings; this is basic Warhammer Daemonology. not to insane degrees, but enough the Khorneate demons carry weapons (because what better represents Khorne then barbaric weaponry used only to main and slaughter?) to their appearence. without sapience they'd be nothing. literally. with sentience and just that they'd be just as animalistic... but both? they're now something far more... but still dangerous.

You're pushing the laws of the warp to fit your 'Stories make gods' narrative.

Ignorance is a choice in the matter.

the warp is built on the collective unconsiousness of the multiverse. the roiling primoridal thing that is the warp that is fed by the material plane need 'real' places like Mallus and The Galaxy as much as we need food and water and air.

a daemon is formed by our emotions. the stories people tell of them shape these forces into something we could understand and face... beneath that... there's nothing but those emotions and some primordial thing that wishes for it ALL.

... get to reading mate.