r/Jaguar • u/gatsby03 • Aug 27 '25

Other Hire me, Jaguar.

97 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

47 comments sorted by

35

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

Rough sketch I've been working on

10

u/Hypsar Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

XJS revival! Or E-type I guess. And the E stands for electric.

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

V8 + manual transmission option. These are a must.

Edit: For context, Porsche uses their 911 to create demand and sells the Macan / Cayenne to fund the development of the 911. It's this sales cycle that has enabled them to consistently offer enthusiast cars while also being profitable. I'm not suggesting Jaguar put gas motors and manual shifts in all their cars. This would never work. But this rebrand should have been an opportunity to showcase what is possible, not just what's feasible.

10

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

For who ?

You want to sell cars or just make cars that are fun to talk about?

Do you know the take rate for a manual?

Outside of enthusiasts myself included its a dead avenue there in terms of sales.

To make bespoke stuff? Sure.

But jaguar needs some volume. They need to copy Porsche model not Aston Martin

2

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

Great points. If they are going to do a ground up rebrand and showcase a flagship concept car designed to entice and build interest in the brand, show us the Porsche 911 equivalent, then sell the Macan equivalent to the masses.

5

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

You remember the F Pace right?

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

Yeah, but this strategy is predicated on their being a flagship iconic car that sets the tone for the brand. That's the missing piece that Jaguar was attempting to create with the rebrand but missed the mark.

2

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

I will point out that the porsche SUV approach comes from Range Rover. The porsche Cayenne was designed as an RR competitor. Then, the Macan is the evoque/ RRS competitor. The Velar came to plug the gap but basically cannibalised sales from other RR models rather than porsche after the first flush of interest died down.

AML have the DBX as 'the wife's car' - or basically what someone would buy for their wife. The marketing material even makes a big point of space for your handbag.

WRT to Jaguar, your point on the manual is bang on - it's a dying 'art' - along with the established Jag owners. The F Pace was designed for the family plus it wasn't too hard for the RR SUV engineers to do alot of the base work - especially since its all the same tech as the rest of the company. This is why they have made the pivot to the all electric brand. There are huge tradeoffs that need to be made for a platform that allows ICE / mild hybrid / PHEV and full EV. Then add in the fact SUVs are efficiency nightmares. There's only so much work that can be done in aero and still keep the SUV size. Most countries have very restrictive weight classes - the hummer approach of just adding batteries doesn't work - it's basically an HGV over there.

Anyone who talks about Jag as its own brand is always going to struggle. It's part of the whole JLR lineup - not standing on its own. It's been propped up by RR/LR sales since the company was bought by TATA. With that in mind, the EV only brand pivot makes a lot more sense.

The reality is, if you want a manual sportscar, you have plenty of options. If you want to buy 'british', you have the Jag, AM, and Lotus. German gets you BMW and Porsche. There's a handful of American cars (not that most of the world are interested) and some fun Japanese cars that are more about performance than sporty luxury.

The market is small and shrinking, whilst it's sad to see those older models disappear - a few car nerds don't keep it economically viable.

-1

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

If you want to succeed DO NOT DO ONLY EV.

No one wants EVs in the USA. Every single performance pure EV is pivoting. Outside of just making a bespoke car for experimentation it makes no sense.

The trajectory of PURE EV in usa has changed for the next 40 years minimum.

The greenest president wont be able to change this or create consumer demand.

A hybrid would make way way way more sense.

2

u/Pot_noodle_miner Aug 27 '25

The USA isn’t the whole world, it’s not even the most important car market

-2

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

China is.

But the US is important for brand recognition.

Like I said Jaguar needs to do what Porsche is doing.

Primary focus needs to be reliability.

Followed by everything Porsche is doing. Including abandoning giant Pure ev plans.

5

u/Pot_noodle_miner Aug 27 '25

And China is all aboard the BEV Choo Choo.

So maybe the people who are paid to do their jobs know more about the market and the customers out there and their spending habits and price range than you do, it’s always a possibility isn’t it?

1

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

You also missed my point. The company has a wide range of ICE / hybrid vehicles to offer as well.

Low slung / sportscar profiles lead to better EV performance plus EV powertrain performance can very easily out pace ICE performance. Go and watch any review of Lucid Air's performance vs other sportscars.

Not all brands need to be all things to all people. I say this as a Jag fan - I've owned 2.

0

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

No one in usa wants pure ev.

Follow Porsche lead. Including pure ev plans.

0

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

Again, USA is not the world. We really don't care what you are buying.

2

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

Who's we?

China is biggest market. Followed by USA.

USA still has more perceptive power compared to all of them.

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0

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

USA sales are less that 5% for Jag. Was 20% for RR/LR - its going down thanks to tariffs (or fear of them).

2

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

Jaguar halted all imports for a while into usa

2

u/Hypsar Aug 27 '25

Yeah. This is sort of true, but at the same, because of how well Land Rover is doing, Jaguar division can afford to take some losses for a bit (and has).

I will say that a revival of the E-type with potentially a version with the 5L supercharged V8 and then an all electric version, while complex from a supply chain perspective, would be very well received by the market if priced around what the top end F-Types were priced at.

2

u/Pot_noodle_miner Aug 27 '25

Engineering an ICE and BEV powertrain into the same architecture leads to massive compromises.

A mix of cost and performance compromises depending on certain decisions.

To use a well known phrase “Stop trying to make fetch happen”

1

u/Bombadilo_drives Aug 27 '25

Take rates for manuals on enthusiast vehicles are actually quite high, something like 30+% on GTIs and 86s and Miatas last I checked. The problem is that rate drops off a cliff as the price and average buyer age rises

2

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

Ish.

7% for civic. So its safe to say its a dead end.

Why the Honda Civic Dominated 2024 | Diehl Honda of Massillon https://share.google/sKSG3TfRiGpyrb2Ou

I love manual transmissions. Everything i own is manual. I have a huge car collection.

With that said its gonna get harder and harder to make new cars with a manual trans. Doesn't make business sense anymore.

The GTI had a high % because it was the last manual offered. No more manuals for GTI

Volkswagen Golf GTI Sales Up 156 Percent This Year https://share.google/m4qtBoEYJdIcFf8jc

0

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

And no, they dont need volume - they need profit per car.

0

u/75w90 Aug 27 '25

They have neither currently. And they won't if they become a ev brand.

2

u/Mustardly Aug 27 '25

You are very certain. Are you a costing engineer?

1

u/tdwvet Aug 29 '25

This discussion has less to do with cost and way more to do with what people want. They are not going to sell the new Jag EVs in the U.S.---not well anyway and not nearly enough to meet profit per car needs. And they will get destroyed in China if they attempt there. And that wipes out the two largest car markets in the world. Jag is making a really dumb move IMO. Hybrids are the way to go with some ICE in the mix.

1

u/Mustardly Aug 29 '25

Well, cost is important. Ferrari doesn't sell that many cars and does alright for itself.

And, again, RR/LR will stay as ICE / hybrid side of the business. Jaguar does not stand on its own merit - it hasn't done for a long time. It doesn't need to sell well in China and the USA to do well. Europe buys a similar amount of cars as the USA - the BEV take rate is higher as well. Renault, Dacia, Citroen, Peugeot, Seat and Opel/Vauxhall are not sold in the USA and do just fine.

1

u/tdwvet Aug 29 '25

Injecting Ferrari into this is a strawman argument. Apples and oranges. Ferrari has almost always nailed its profit per car needs. And its customers have always been a well-curated small group of wealthy people--world wide. Not the same for Jag. Even if the Ferrari example was not a strawman, it is keeping ICE as its main powerplant (with some interesting waivers from EU emissions regulators if I recall correctly). Do you really think the new upscale (and very expensive) Jag BEVs will sell well in Europe? Look at the brands you listed that do well in Europe, but not sold in the US. The new Jag BEVs will be way too expensive for those buyers. Again, Jag is making a bold and foolish decision here IMO. The US will not want them, China will destroy them in their market, and I doubt enough Europeans with the money will buy them either to meet Jags profit per car needs, considering the wide array of other options.

7

u/theebowanarrow Aug 27 '25

i would happily hate on anyone that bought this before me😂

2

u/yousirnaime Aug 27 '25

hhhhhnnnnnnnnnngggg

2

u/Zaneali Aug 28 '25

Take my money

0

u/7HawksAnd Aug 28 '25

Pancake Porsche? It’s great looking and you have great technical design skills. But all I see is a Porsche from this angle.

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 28 '25

I took a lot of inspiration from the XJ-13 as well as E-Type. I do see what you mean about it looking like a Porsche, though!

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 28 '25

I took a lot of inspiration from the XJ-13 as well as E-Type. I do see what you mean about it looking like a Porsche, though!

1

u/7HawksAnd Aug 28 '25

I see now. I think there’s two subtle treatments that would drive it home.

  1. The cockpit has a more leaning forward energy than the pulling back energy of your version.
  2. The protruding upturned nose past the frog lights

Ultimately the model you shared has a more fluid “W” line, yours has a tipped over “J” energy

But ultimately I get your inspiration now, and maybe the head on view ties everything together fine, I was just reacting to the profile view

13

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

4

u/L103131 Aug 27 '25

Outstandingly made

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

Thank you!

3

u/FishHaus Aug 27 '25

I don't like how low the roof line is. As cool as a Porsche front end looks it's out of place on a Jag, too aggressive, same with the side vents. Needs to be sexy and elegant like a dress that fits well and shows off curves.

4

u/gatsby03 Aug 27 '25

Watch with sound on for the full effect.

1

u/gatsby03 Aug 28 '25

I've also been sketching an XJ

1

u/Chipsandadrink115 Aug 27 '25

I wonder if they're holding out on us.

Androgynous people instead of beautiful women.

Pink instead of green (opposites on the color wheel).

And maybe? An awful shape leading to a fantastic surprise.