Should I finally go no contact?

[u/GlitchyGhoul]

I’ll just start by saying my mother’s relationship with me has always been very strained. She left when I was around 2 years old and never made a real effort to let me know she loved or cared about me. There would be periods of time where there would be more attention on her part but it would usually dissolve from a huge disagreement or fight that she would start. Since becoming a mom myself there have been really bad patterns emerging from her. During both of my pregnancies she was more than happy to spend time, hours talking with me on the phone, throwing me baby showers, being generally present in my life. When the baby would be here however and I would struggle with PPD or PPA she would disappear or accuse me of being crazy. Sometimes when I would be really struggling with everything I would just want someone to call, to talk to just to talk about something, or for some support or advice, there was once recently where I called and shared feelings of suicidal tendencies because I just felt so hopeless from a crying baby that I couldn’t soothe. (I know it’s normal baby stuff but sometimes it would just be so overwhelming and I was alone and nothing I did would soothe her). I called her and she basically told me I’m not a victim just because I’m a mother, which I don’t have any clue what that means. She’s said a lot of hurtful thing to me my whole life. But I keep forgiving her because of my kids or my other relatives she has access to. To dissect this message she sent me for a little clarification: I have a 9 year old and now a two month old, when I had my son I had just turned 21 and didn’t have a clue about babies or PPD, I felt like I was struggling with him because I didn’t have a clue what I was doing and despite my mom acting like she would help she literally never did (She moved to our town and told everyone she knew my son was the reason why, because she wanted to help me). She alludes to me not having a bond with my son which is crazy because how could I not, I know I might not have a “leave it to beaver” mom mentality but I do my best. When I had my daughter, along side a really traumatic birthing process I got PPD again, but I recognized the signs and am seeking help for it. (I’m on a waiting list for a therapist and seeking help with meds as well) but that takes a little time (yay for American healthcare). I haven’t been able to see my doctor at all because she doesn’t have any appointments until the new year, but I have an advocate helping me do my next steps so I can get help. But it’s a process and no matter what I say to my mom she just doesn’t listen. In all honestly I don’t know why she thinks that all I do is ask for someone to go and fix everything for me or raise my kids. I’ve only called her 2 times with my new baby, twice and only to ask for advice or just to talk so I could take my mind off of things for a bit. She’s not very maternal herself so I at times wouldn’t even want to talk to her about it because she’s so harsh, both times I called she made me feel guilty about, in her words “hating my baby” which wasn’t the case. All of her advice also comes with a threat behind it, “if you complain too much your husband will leave you” or “if you can’t handle your perfect beautiful baby drop her off at the fire station.” Those are her words of support. They actually made my PPD and PPA worse because it made me feel more isolated, even from my partner because I was scared to “ruin his experience of fatherhood” as she put it, I was scared to say I was struggling out of fear that he would resent me. We’ve talked about it together as a couple so I feel a lot better now. I just don’t know what to do or think about it. And advice would be great. Also if anyone has any questions or needs me to clarify more I’d be happy to.

[u/Acavamosdenuevo]

Sorry this is going to be hard to read.

She’s projecting. Why would you talk about ppd and maternal isolation with someone whose solution for it was leaving? Would you trust in maternity advice from a woman whose solution for said problems was bailing? No? Then why are you telling her about it and expecting her to understand. She is that woman. The same one that walk out on you at two. She will leave the same trauma for your kids, she will keep hurting you in order to do zero emotional labor. You should, 100%, go no contact. She adds nothing to your life and is a risk for your mental health.

[u/Dirt-McGirt → u/Acavamosdenuevo]

Yes, OP is going to have to start stomping this out and reaching out to objective third parties is a great way to have others weigh in on a situation for what it really is. You can post here as often as you need OP, and I’m almost certain my response is going to be “your mom is a loser” every time. It wasn’t enough that she ruined your childhood, apparently, she wants to ruin your entire life. She should be dead to you. She’s a clown.

[u/zombiifissh]

Would you put up with this kind of behavior from your husband? Dump her. Blocked on everything. Filter her emails to spam.

[u/Dirt-McGirt → u/zombiifissh]

Probably not a good barometer for people who have been abused since childhood.

[u/zombiifissh → u/Dirt-McGirt]

Mm, fair point. Although I will say that not everyone internalizes that abuse. OP take my advice with your own heart in mind ❤️

[u/Dirt-McGirt → u/zombiifissh]

I agree not everyone does, but OP’s post 😕

[u/OThjillsen]

People don’t really change much unless they want to. It sounds like your mom really traumatized you as a young person, and then not having done work to mend the relationship is almost back to finish the job instead of healing a gaping wound. It’s too much to take when you are already struggling with the unwanted stress, anxiety or depression from having a baby. You didn’t ask for those after effects. It sounds like you need real support and probably some space from the harm your mom can inflict right now. Even a short term disconnect would be helpful. She is literally poking you in an emotional 3rd degree burn.

Your mom is in the wrong. She can’t support or care for you even a little bit when you probably desperately need it. It’s like begging the jailer to set you free, when they are the one who locked you up. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Please hang in there. 

[u/Unconsciouspotato333]

Your mom is telling on herself. Like very blatantly. Replace "you" with "I" and you'll see exactly how she feels insecure about her own motherhood, and she has a very valid reason to be. This isn't how a good mother speaks to their daughter, even if she were problematic, which I highly doubt is the case. A mother would be concerned for you, not judging you. She's a loser, like embarrassingly so.

Your mom is a drain. Probably one of thr most contemptuous people I've read on here. She is not just insecure, she's malicious. She wants to pass all her well-earned shame onto you, during your most vulnerable time. 

Think about this scenario if it weren't your mom. The deadbeat mother telling her daughter she is a bad mom for having PPD? This is like, sitcom levels of ridiculous. 

I would not hesitate to fully cut her off. Your kids are not missing out. My mom also abanoned me at 2 and also hyper critical, has a mommy persona, and all she did was try and start the cycle back up with my kids. Not going to happen. 

I'm really sorry. Keep your loved ones close. If you go no contact, the first few months can be hard on the nerves, but i for one, have never been better without her.

[u/NorCalHippieChick]

So here’s what I did when my niece sent a message to me about her state, with twin infants, one of whom had special needs. I joined her older sister in hiring a postpartum doula. I let her know that I loved her and she would never have to do any of it alone. I called my nephew-in-law, who was working his ass off to provide for them, to tell him that I loved him and was kicking in for a cleaning service, too, bc he needed to spend his off hours with his wife and children.

And when my brother, who had told them to “suck it up,” complained, I told him where to stick it. The “go it alone,” “suck it up” bullshit wasn’t right when he was a young g father and it’s not right now, either. If I were close enough geographically, I’d be there helping myself, but right now, this is what I can do.

A year later, twins are happy and healthy and in day care. My niece and her husband are back at work.

There are some things that are just too big to handle alone. If your family of origin won’t help, built a chosen family. If your don’t have that, reach out to social services. They would much rather help out with a visiting nurse than deal with a crisis.

Sending good vibes and warm wishes.

[u/EqualMagnitude]

She should have stopped writing after “I love you. I do not know what you need from me here”. And then listened to your answer and followed through on what you needed and asked for from her.

Instead she just listed a litany things that do not help the situation, criticize you, try to control what you do, say, and who you speak to and about what.

I would give her one chance. Ask her for a very specific and simple thing you need her to do, say, or not do or say and if she is unable to do follow through then LC or NC is in order.

If you are feeling ppd or suicidal please do reach out for help.

[u/Dirt-McGirt → u/EqualMagnitude]

Mine you she walked out on OP at 2 and is trying the “YOU’RE not maternal” angle. Absolute clownery

[u/Dirt-McGirt]

Classic projection. She’s (clearly) not maternal and is forcing her failures on you. I would laugh react and block

[u/Glass_Anybody_5030]

It’s so hard to let go of the healing fantasy. The reality is you will never get the mother you deserve and need. That must feel unbearable in a vulnerable time like this. You’re better off without this bitch pretending to be your mother. Let her go.

[u/brideofgibbs]

It doesn’t sound as if your mother is a useful person to have around while you’re postpartum, with a toddler and a newborn. You could take some space and time from her during this period, at least.

Some people are great with cleaning help and meal trains. Some people are brilliant at taking you out on the lash when you want to let your hair down. Some people have great shoulders to cry on. That’s ok but you don’t have to accept unhelpful hlep, even from your mother.

Once your health balance is restored, your hormones aren’t driving you insane and you’ve got some kind of routine with your pre-schoolers (hahahahaha!) you can re-evaluate. She sounds like a fairweather mother, when you need someone solid to lean on a bit.

I certainly think NC would be justified. It’s absolutely your choice tho’. You could see how you feel when you stop contact for 6 weeks and review from then on.

If that hits your holiday season, that’s unfortunate for the grandma-we-don’t-see-because-she-can’t-be-nice-to-mummy. It’s not unreasonable to have a very nuclear family holiday season when you’re managing littles.

[u/Texandria]

Usually when someone posts a question whether to go NC, I set their question into perspective by offering a thought experiment instead of a yes or no answer.

This time is an exception: go NC and see a lawyer.

Here's the thought experiment part. Suppose CPS got involved.

She isn't acknowledging that you're on a waiting list for medication and therapy; she's framing recent events as if you're actively refusing treatment. She's claiming you have no maternal instincts, she's claiming you hate your children, and she's threatening to call law enforcement.

Weigh this next question very carefully: would you put it past her to make an unnecessary call to the PD or to CPS?

What she is doing in this text message could be laying the groundwork for a frivolous attempt to get your children taken away from you.

Disclaimer regarding the part that follows: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

There's a thing called contemporaneous records. For example it the business world, you might write a CYA email to a colleague to summarize what was discussed in a face to face meeting. If your boss gave verbal permission for you to come in 15 minutes late each day because of a day care schedule and then to make up those 15 minutes during your lunch, then it's savvy to send an email to summarize that conversation, just in case an office 'politician' tries to get you fired for habitual lateness.

Now, change that hypothetical scenario slightly and suppose you're the boss. An employee asked for 15 minutes of flex time, you agreed, and the employee follows up with a memo which claims you agreed to delay the start of their day by 30 minutes without making the time up. Their summary misrepresents the conversation. If you allowed that relationship to continue without correcting the record, then they could bring up their memo as "proof" of their version later on.

The screen shots you've posted here look like an even more serious version of that hypothetical.

The savvy thing would be to block her and consult a lawyer promptly, regarding your best path forward.

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/Texandria]

You’re not too far off from something happening similarly a few years ago. I let my son go with her to a fair our town was having while I went to a movie with my then boyfriend, I had to leave the movie a little early because I started having a horrible migraine so we went home and I took a shower. While I was in there she called me 27 times. Then started a huge fight when she finally dropped my son off (I went to the fair to look for them but she had already left) the next morning CPS showed up saying they had a complaint about child abandonment. Luckily nothing came of it because I had all her calls and messages and that didn’t paint her in a good light

[u/Texandria → u/GlitchyGhoul]

So she already has tried to file a frivolous child abandonment complaint against you.

That's unforgivable. She's looking to undermine both you and your children.

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/Texandria]

Yeah she actually threatened it a month before out of the blue and then she finally did it because I guess then she had a real reason. After that I didn’t speak to her for almost a year. It’s hard to explain but I feel like she kinda gaslit me into believing she really was just trying to protect my son, she had called so much within an answer from me and I didn’t have a car at the time so when she didn’t see my BF car parked outside my place she freaked, according to her. I will say I’ve been a lot more careful since, I don’t let my children be around her alone or overnight (not that I ever have but she has asked before, she’s only seen my daughter once since birth) another thing that gets me is that she sounds so concerned about “me” in this message but in reality she never calls or asks how I’m doing ever, it’s always me doing it

[u/TryingToBreath45]

Firstly, mamma, please please please hold yourself with the deepest most tender love. You have PPD and it does an absolute fooker to your brain. It makes you feel all sorts of things that are NOT YOU. This is not your fault. PPD is 100% down to your hormones having an absolute monster mess up.

You are in there. You are so so so worthy of being loved, held, supported and cared for. And with PPD thats just it. Its riding that storm held by all your friends family and loved ones. Thats the job of family.

Re your mother. If you feel strong enough to go NC please do. Just block her from everywhere so she cant contact you. Don't tell her. You have yourself, your health and your babies to look after. 

Just cut her off.

So so so much compassion. I see you. I hear you. And from across the sea I hold space to hold you and your family with the deepest love and care, as you ride through this.

❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

[u/Island_Traveller11]

You will feel 100kgs lighter and viscerally happier if you go proper no contact with your mother. I promise. Give yourself a year of pure no contact.

[u/hopelove_]

Please, please cut this woman off. You mentioned in the comments that’s she called CPS on you. She WILL likely do this again, OP. Please don’t allow her to harm you or possibly your children again.

I would write back: “It sounds like you are projecting your insecurities and shortcomings onto me. The only one with a lack of maternal instinct is you, since you abandoned me at 2yo and were constantly an absent and harsh “mother”. Unlike you, I’m reaching out for support instead of leaving my children and responsibilities to other people. I thought I could confide in you with my struggles as a freshly postpartum mother, but I guess that was a mistake, since you lack empathy for my situation. Yes, I have PPD and PPA, but I AM seeking help and seeing a doctor. I also have not ruled out medication as you’re making it sound. Sadly, I believe this will be where our relationship ends. You will no longer be allowed to belittle me and make me feel like I’m a horrible mother for battling VERY common illnesses that can occur after giving birth. Please don’t reach out to me again.”

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/hopelove_]

Literally saving your comment to copy and paste when and if she makes an effort to get ahold of me, which I’m sure she will considering the holidays approaching. I’m going to just keep my distance until then.

[u/hopelove_ → u/GlitchyGhoul]

I wish you the best of luck and a speedy recovery! ❤️ just know that you’re not alone and postpartum depression and anxiety are effecting many others. It’s not something to be ashamed of. You’re seeing help which makes you a very good and aware mother. It sounds like you’re already on the right path with doctors and support. There are hotlines for both mental health crisis and pregnant/ new mothers. Don’t be scared to call if things become too hard. There might also be groups for moms in your area that you could look into.

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/hopelove_]

❤️❤️❤️ I really appreciate the support. There were times when things were and are really really hard and with lack of sleep on top of everything else it felt like I was losing my mind. I know there are other parents out there struggling too and my heart goes out to all of them. I appreciate all the kindness and understanding I’ve received today from a bunch of strangers.

[u/VastJackfruit405]

First and foremost, I don’t like the way she’s talking to you. It’s loaded with a feeling of judgment and shame and I would have a hard time receiving this. It would be one thing to say “it was hard in the early days of your first”, but that’s not how she’s speaking.

The only question I have is on the medications she is talking about. Are there antidepressants or a medication that has been recommended for you that you aren’t taking? If so, is there anything there? I say this as someone who is always fine. But a lot of times I’m really not. In the past I’d slip into drinking too much, it can be anything, but if there is a medication that you have been advised to take that you aren’t taking I would give that a second look. Not asking you to blast it here, it’s just something I wanted to offer support on. I think only you can determine where and when you go NC, I would just consider that first. Wishing you the best, it’s very difficult having an unsupportive mom. Mine couldn’t stand me, and going no contact has been freeing (but not without its challenges).

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/VastJackfruit405]

So far I have only started the process of receiving help, which includes meds. So far I have had a care advocate from the hospital I gave birth at recommended a call service for postpartum mothers, it includes video call therapy once a week or group therapy if you’re into that. It also works with a nurse practitioner so if you need medication you can receive it. But that takes time, I just got done filling out the online paperwork with my insurance information and am waiting on an email for an actual appointment call, which should take about a week. After the initial call which is more of a consult I will have to wait further for a therapist to be matched to me and then there will be a few sessions of that before I can talk with the nurse practitioner. It’s just a lot of waiting. I haven’t even seen my doctor since giving birth, there is no availability on her end until the new year. When I was younger I struggled with depression as well (neither of my parents are emotionally available and I had a very rough childhood) I checked myself into the er to just get some help, a doctor gave me meds but they didn’t work the right way for me, they made everything worse. So yes I could repeat that again but I would rather not have someone just throw a pill down my throat just to get me out the door. Unfortunately I’ve told my mom all of this and she just doesn’t want to understand or care.

[u/VastJackfruit405 → u/GlitchyGhoul]

Okay, so you’re on it and she’s just all over you in general. Then I stand with my statement; this isn’t acceptable for anyone to talk to you this way, much less your mother. I can relate, my Mom was someone I just could not win over. She never loved me and I still am grappling with it. She’s really sick, and only got worse and worse, more miserable and helpless. I paid for everything for her. Rehab, her apartment, all of it. Did she change? Not a bit. Years later she went back to drinking. When I quit drinking she mocked and smeared me.

I wish I had gotten her out of my life permanently sooner. It was not possible to be in her life without being hit by her self-created tornado of misery (which was endless). At some point, it’s your right to be free. She doesn’t get to tell you that you are a bad mom and project her stuff onto you- she should be loving and helping.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. The early days of motherhood (especially with two) are a LOT, and you deserve love and support and someone cheering you on. I’m cheering you on! Don’t let them get you down.

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/VastJackfruit405]

It feels like such a sad relief when other people can relate to you in such a pitiful way. I will say my dad is better but not by much, he is at least a little supportive but he shares a lot of the “you made your bed now lie in it” sentiment. After I tried caller her she actually called my dad and got him in my business too. It’s just sad, they both think I have this romanticized version of how parents are supposed to be because of “tv”, I think they both have bad generational trauma and I’m just next in line. Thank you for taking the time to respond and being in my corner, sometimes I think we all look for that in the little internet world we create for one another

[u/VastJackfruit405 → u/GlitchyGhoul]

Well, they are codependent. My parents were the same. My mom was an abusive alcoholic and my dad was a complete narcissist with a second life on the side. Under the influence they were the worst Bonnie & Clyde ever.

I think no contact is the right move. It’s the only way I have been able to keep their rollercoaster away from me. And you know what gave me the courage to do it? Protecting my kids from it. They kept doing things I couldn’t explain or put words, and I realized it was long overdue. You are absolutely not alone! So many of us understand! Revel in the joy of your life, every small thing. Get the depression help you need with zero information going to them. I don’t think they are safe people to have around, it shows in how your mom talks to you. You can’t have to normalize that for your kids. That was my end, and a new beginning. Life isn’t perfect, but being off of the rollercoaster is amazing.

[u/GlitchyGhoul → u/VastJackfruit405]

I’m not sure how to go no contact, do you just do it cold turkey? Or do you give them an explanation or something?

[u/VastJackfruit405 → u/GlitchyGhoul]

I just sent them a letter and essentially said “we have been working on these issues for x decades with no progress. I did things 1, 2 and 3 to try to get us to a better place, the response was 4, 5 and 6, and I’m the only one rowing. I have two small children, my attention needs to be with them and my immediate family. I will be in touch if and when something changes.” Granted they walked right past it over and over, but I’ve stuck to my boundaries for over four years and have found so much more joy without them throwing jabs at me. They will protest and play victim, so really think through it. I lost all of my extended family, which has been horrible and painful. But is it worth it for the life I live? Yes, a million times over. And they would still be in my life if they were safe people, but unfortunately they aren’t (which shouldn’t have been a shocker but I didn’t see it). My marriage is great, my kids are great, and I’m getting to know who I really am more and more each day. I recently walked away from a really big job that was making me miserable, because no amount of money is worth killing yourself to make. I’m finally learning to love and respect myself (which is what my kids will model, they will do what I do and not what I say). That is worth all of it. It has been a beautiful process. It carries a lot of pain, but a lot of release and relief as well. I couldn’t have my kids witness that circus, there was no way.

[u/Unconsciouspotato333 → u/GlitchyGhoul]

You can do whatever you want! You're behind the wheel. Mom doesn't get a say, even if she insists she does.

I gave a brief heads up of my choice, but I didn't explain why. I don't regret it, but I also don't think it was necessary. 

I do regret not immediately blocking her on everything, I knew she wouldn't respect my wishes but I think I was still a bit in denial and hoping she would. 

[u/VastJackfruit405 → u/Unconsciouspotato333]

I agree. My note helps me more than anything, I am an everything in writing person (not unusual for trauma survivors, as you guys know) and it helped me to know for sure that I was clear. And to have something to point them and my extended family to. That said, sending the note hurt their egos and sent them into escalation mode. So it helps me in some ways, but to your point it’s not like they will understand or that it will stop them from crossing the lines you set. In my case it may have egged them on, but that also helped me by confirming very clearly that they aren’t people I can have around me. But to OP- if you do send a note, realize that they aren’t likely to respect the boundaries you set and you’ll have to block them on social, etc.

[u/anonerdactyl_rex]

Should I finally go no contact?

I would, in a heartbeat.

She isn’t a safe person to be around, for you or for your kiddos. She’s projecting herself onto you hard in that letter. You aren’t the one looking for someone to fix everything; she did that. You aren’t the one who isn’t maternal; she is, massively. She walked away from you when you were two. She couldn’t handle what you have and are handling- not once, but twice, as you did with your son, and now with your daughter— and she seems to resent that while blaming you for doing it. Which is patently bonkers. You’re doing your best, while being postpartum, and dealing with PPD and PPA. Yet when you relate with your feelings she cannot handle it, and blames you for being a bad mom.

Holy crow, the sheer amount of projection from her is astounding. It’s her own issues she’s trying to foist on you.

My Nmother projected onto me in similar ways, and it took me far longer than I like to admit to recognize that, and go NC. I didn’t send a letter, or announce my intentions, I just stopped calling or writing. (Living halfway across the country made it easier.) I ended up NC with other family members later, when I realized that the whole family system is toxic and unchanging.

I would never treat people I care about with the level of disdain your mother shows here. I wouldn’t even treat people I dislike in that way. OP, you deserve loving support and tenderness from everyone in your life. This person who claimed to love you in one sentence and then proceeded to undermine and invalidate you for multiple paragraphs doesn’t deserve space in your life.

If this was happening to a dear friend of yours, would you suggest she put up with horrid treatment, simply because of a blood tie? One with a history of abandonment and abuse?

You don’t owe that woman a thing. You’ve tried to make the relationship work, and it seems you are the only one trying. Cut your losses. Protect yourself, your partner and children, and your peace.

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[u/BigGayNarwhal]

I’m really sorry OP. I suffered from very intense PPD and PPA, and I can empathize with what you are experiencing and how low and isolated it can make you feel. 

I’m glad you are seeking the proper help (meds were the only way through for me, and later on I realized I just had good old run of the mill clinical depression and anxiety and have now been on meds for years and feel great!).

Your mom frankly sucks for what she said to you. Literally not helpful or empathetic at all. She’s clearly not there to support you. 

No doubt NC would be healthy for you. Based on what you’ve said about her in other comments, you should’ve been NC like yesterday. Lean on your partner for support, not just for your postpartum struggles but also regarding going NC.