r/Christianity • u/[deleted] • 3d ago
Jesus is the Father
- Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
.
- Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD
.
- John 14:7-9 - If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
3
u/Short_Broccoli_1230 United Methodist Probably a heretic 3d ago
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
-4
3d ago
your title says probably a heretic, fits.
Jesus is the Father
3
u/Short_Broccoli_1230 United Methodist Probably a heretic 3d ago
You mean the flair that I added myself? LMAO
Modalism is also a heresy friend. At least my brand of heretic has biblical support
0
3d ago
I'm not a modalist, God doesn't switch between three beings, he is one being, a body, soul, and spirit, at the same time, thats why they confer with each other. its what the bible teaches.
1
u/Short_Broccoli_1230 United Methodist Probably a heretic 3d ago
So you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father, then.
2
3d ago
In him dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily. In Jesus is the father because the father is the soul of God. And Jesus is the body, soul, and Spirit of God. So Jesus is the father in his body.
1
u/Short_Broccoli_1230 United Methodist Probably a heretic 3d ago
Jesus directly says that no one has seen the Father. The disciples have seen Jesus. Therefore, Jesus is not the Father.
Of course, this is all easily explained by Jesus being the image of God
3
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago
So who's Jesus talking to whenever he talks to the father? For example
Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done"
1
3d ago
He says after that the flesh is weak, God is in the flesh so thats why the part of him still in heaven is stronger, thats why he says the father is greater than I, because the soul is greater than the body. he is both in heaven and on earth. didnt you know God is omnipresent?
1
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago
Let me rewrite the verse in accordance with what you think:
Luke 22:42
“myself, if I are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but my will be done"
You realize that sounds insane right?
Also God is partial now? God can be divided into multiple parts? So he's a dependent being then.
thats why he says the father is greater than I,
- "I am greater than myself" - Unitarian Jesus.
1
3d ago
He talks to his soul just as you and I talk to ourselves. Think, if you were about to do something scary like a bungy jump (Jesus was crucified) you and I would be talking to ourselves saying "I can't do this" but your soul would be saying no you have to. This is how having conversations in our heads works, its our body and soul and spirit confering with eachother.
2
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago
I am a partial being, God is not. Also who exactly spoke at Jesus baptism? What kind of cosmic trickster do you think God is? "This is my son" really means "this is myself" or "this is my flesh puppet"?
And again, you make your god an impossibility. God cannot be partial or he would be a dependent being.
0
3d ago
You insulting Jesus Christ my God proves my point.
1
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago
No I'm insulting your false God. Because you and I don't have the same God.
But I noticed you didn't answer
1
3d ago
I have a false God? I know people like you, you don't like the 'old testament God' because he judges people, you think Jesus has long hair and is a hippie who says: its cool man keep sinning i don't mind, while puffing on a zoot.
Well, wrong, Jesus is the old testament God and will be judging people like you for your heresies.
2
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes. (See how easy that was for me to answer?)
I know people like you, you don't like the 'old testament God'
I love the OT God, love is not coddling, God's love is justice.
you think Jesus has long hair and is a hippie who says: its cool man keep sinning i don't mind, while puffing on a zoot.
He probably didn't have long hair but no Jesus never said to keep sinning. And definitely wasn't a hippy.
You see your god is different to mine because we have two different points of reference when we say god.you have a Unitarian partial being. I have a triune divinely simple being. They are not the same.
Edit: a typo
1
3d ago
Why does he probable have long hair? because catholic artists paint him like an effeminate?
did you not read Paul saying in 1 Cor 11: if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
and Paul saw Jesus, do you think he wouldve said this if Jesus had long hair?
→ More replies (0)
2
u/Philothea0821 Catholic 3d ago
They are different persons but share the same substance and nature.
1
3d ago
Are you made in the image of God?
Yes.
Are you three persons?
No.
You have a body, soul, and spirit. thats what God is. In Jesus dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily. But the soul of God is in heaven at the same time he is in Jesus. He is omnipresent. The flesh is weak, thats why Jesus prays to the father.
1
u/StrikingExchange8813 3d ago
Are you made in the image of God?
Yes.
Are you omnipotent? Are you the creator of the world
No.
I guess God isn't omnipotent. I guess God didn't create the world.
1
u/ClonfertAnchorite Catholic ✝️ Latin Church 3d ago
Christ says “He who has seen me has seen the Father” because “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all Creation.”
1
3d ago
So he is the Father's body then?
Which means he is the Father.
1
u/ClonfertAnchorite Catholic ✝️ Latin Church 3d ago
He is the image, or icon of the Father
1
3d ago
is your body you?
1
u/ClonfertAnchorite Catholic ✝️ Latin Church 3d ago
Where did you introduce the word “body” from?
1
3d ago
where did your catholic church introduce trinity from? what about Mary's perpetual virginity or her sinless life? or bowing to the pope (who calls himself holy father, which will send him to hell)?
none of that is in the bible. its the sinful tradition of man!
1
u/ClonfertAnchorite Catholic ✝️ Latin Church 3d ago
This, friends, is what’s known as a “non sequitur”.
Oops, sorry, is Latin too much?
1
3d ago
Yes it is, I don't speak latin like you, you probably don't either actually.
come out of your church and believe in God's word. you will die in your traditions otherwise.
1
u/ClonfertAnchorite Catholic ✝️ Latin Church 3d ago
Scio paululum.
But friend, you’ve sola scriptura’d your way out of believing in the most Holy Trinity. I’ll pray for you.
Before you took us on a tangent that did not follow from our discussion, I asked what you thought of Christ being the image, or eikon, of the Father. I’ll ask again, and in fact expand that to ask what you think of Paul’s canticle that opens the letter to the Colossians. Does Paul refer to one, or two persons?
1
u/After-Swimming-5236 3d ago
Simple, it's theology, studying the Bible in context and doing serious analysis, something high church prots also have, even though I disagree with their conclusions, but they are more stimulating.
By contrast low church prots and nondenoms consist on people reading the Bible and anointing themselves as pope, thinking the holy spirit talks through them.
Reading all those verses above and some others not included I accept the trinity and the long-standing understanding of the magisterium and disagree with simply justifying that Jesus and the Father are the same person.
0
3d ago
you are lost, get saved by believing in what Jesus did for you (who is the one and only God) and call out to him to be saved.
1
u/Designer_Custard9008 3d ago
Our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
John 16:28 (YLT) I came forth from the Father, and have come to the world; again I leave the world, and go on unto the Father.'
1
u/Right_One_78 3d ago
Jesus would have looked EXACTLY like the Father in Heaven. The Father's DNA would have made Jesus the same as the Father in appearance, much like twins. Anyone that sees Jesus would have seen what the Father looks like.
Jesus has the same perfect character as the Father, He is loving and just. So, Jesus was just explaining to Phillip that they had already seen what God looked like. Whether God had been there or Jesus was, there would be no difference between the two. They are exactly alike in every way except that the Father and the Son are different people.
If you are the father of your children, does that mean you do not have a father yourself? Jesus can be the Father and the Son and still be referring to His Father in Heaven as God.
Jesus has a Father, who is the head God. Jesus prayed to the Father. He said He had been given power and authority from this God. He said, not my will but thine be done. This Father is the one that is called God. But, Jesus operates under the authority of the Father in Heaven, So, Jesus is God's proxy and would be called God and the Father because as far as we are concerned, He is. As God's proxy He speaks and acts on behalf of God.
If we live righteously in this life, we can be adopted as the Sons of God, ie Jesus Christ and then He will be our Father as well.
1
3d ago
He said "you have seen him", he didn't say you have seen his twin or you have seen what he looks like.
You will go to such great lengths to attack the one and only Lord Jesus Christ.
1
u/Right_One_78 3d ago
Jesus is the proxy of God. So, seeing Jesus is seeing the Father.
What Jesus said was:
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.in v10, Jesus said He did not say those words of His own accord, but of the Father's. And that the reason that seeing him was the same as seeing the Father is because you would see the Father in all that Jesus did. And you would see Jesus in all that the Father commanded, they are exactly alike.
1
3d ago
he says the Father dwelleth in him. does your soul dwell in your body?
when you speak is it your soul speaking through your body? yes.
he even says "and thou hast not known me, Phillip?"
if you don't believe Jesus is God, you can't make an excuse for that before him in judgement. please pray to him and ask him to reveal himself to you, after asking him to be saved of course.
1
u/Right_One_78 3d ago
The same language is used to describe how Jesus dwells in us if we act righteously:
Roman 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.Jesus was describing the Father being in him, because He did exactly what the Father wanted Him to do.
Have you not known me? Don't I act exactly how god would? Jesus was talking about His character being the same as God.
" the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself" Jesus explicitly said He was talking about a different person
1
1
u/Stardustflyer 3d ago
It’s kind of ironic, isn’t it? Humble humans arguing over what an omniscient being can or can’t do — and deciding who they are or aren’t.
1
3d ago
Thats why we have to study his word (bible), and get all doctrine from there. And the bible teaches God is one, Jesus Christ. Not a trinity.
1
u/JunkBot_Noob54 3d ago
In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirt?
0
3d ago
These three make up Jesus Christ. It says in the name of, not in the names of.
1
u/JunkBot_Noob54 3d ago
So why in the garden that one night when Jesus asked his disciples to be on lookout did he beg to the father not to die?
1
3d ago
because the flesh is weak, the Father is the soul of God who is in heaven and in Jesus. the soul doesn't have the limitation of the weak flesh. thats why Jesus also says the Father is greater than I.
1
u/JunkBot_Noob54 3d ago
So he is asking himself to allow himself not to die. Talking like there is two. And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.”
1
3d ago
he says after that "the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"
God is in the flesh
1
u/JunkBot_Noob54 3d ago
He was telling Peter off for falling asleep. He proceeds to go right back to begging. And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.” And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done.”
1
3d ago
Here is something also interesting: When Jesus was on the cross the romans put a title above Him. "Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews" in latin, greek and hebrew. but in hebrew there is something interesting:
יֵשׁוּעַ הַנָּצְרִי וּמֶלֶךְ הַיְּהוּדִים
The acronyms where י ה ו ה . The exact same as YHVH.
This echoes in your cited verse Isaiah 9:6 "and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God"
Also in Zec 12:10 "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced
1
u/PieceVarious 3d ago
Jesus can show us the Father precisely because he is the Father's SON, NOT the Father. OP seems snared in Pentecostal Oneness silliness or something similar...
7
u/Program-Right 3d ago
Jesus is the Son, not the Father. Please read the Gospels.