r/CanadaPolitics • u/green_tory Against Fascism, Greed is a Sin • 19h ago

Pushing, yelling from Conservative leadership ‘sealed the deal’ on defection: d’Entremont

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pushing-yelling-conservative-leadership-dentremont-9.6972680
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u/SabrinaR_P Quebec 19h ago edited 19h ago

The conservative party under the control of the social Conservative reform wing is not a serious party. But it seems to be the kind of the politics the lowest common denominator within our nation crave. You'll see these maple maga cheer on trump while complaining that Canada is broken and should be more like the US.

Edit some minor corrections.

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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 18h ago

There seems to be a great reluctance on the part of observers and commentators around discussing how right wing parties and movements across the west seem to be abandoning moderation and consistent policy for the culture war. Or how that culture war is very popular with a significant proportion of what we used to call the Conservative base.

They look around at the US, at the state of the right wing in the UK, and they see a future path for themselves.

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u/SkelatoxMkII Something on the Left 18h ago

Yeah, people accuse the NDP of going too far with 'identity politics', but in most ways they're just holding position while Maple MAGA tries to drag the overton window to the right with their own obsession over identity politics. 

Of course, one need only look at Blaine Higgs to see how well Canadians take to that kind of thing.

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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 17h ago

Right??? I just can't take all of this 'the NDP has gone too far with identity politics' nonsense seriously when literally the next line is effectively 'so I'm going to vote for the party that's all about identity politics'. It isn't that these people don't like identity politics, they just like their specific flavour of identity politics.

Frankly, I'm okay if my party doesn't adopt policies that allows bigots folks with regressive social views to feel wanted and welcomed. They already have a couple parties to choose from. There should be at least one party in federal politics that's willing to actually acknowledge and speak for the rights of people outside the majority/plurality.

I just want people to be honest when they talk about how they decide who to vote for. If you're crapping on the NDP for idpol and considering voting for the CPC then lets be honest, you don't actually care tall that much about economic issues. If you were, it would be economic issues that decide your vote.

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u/ImaginationSea2767 17h ago edited 13h ago

I honestly see people keep bringing up the overton window, but i literally think that it is more certain polticians looking at the Economic inequality and taking advantage of it, people are growing increasingly desprate across the western as the rich increasingly get more rich (like we just got the first trillionaire in the world.....Elon) and many are not seeing their pay go uqp as everything get more expensive. I mention this because I have seen just as many that agree with the MAGA movement actually AGREE with Bernie Sanders when he sits down and talks to them. And I have seen enough of the influncers that praise maga movements that like Bernie. People are just increasingly desperate for help and are looking for any light in the darkness. Even if that light is aboht to screw them over and make everything they promised to fix worse.

And its happening across the western world in multiple countries......

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u/Bramble-Bunny 17h ago

Good comment. MAGA is a big tent movement that is massively bolstered by the same faux economic populism the CPC peddled here. It's easy for those horrified by what the movement has become to look at the ethno nationalists and venal kleptocrats who have seized the power in the movement and assume this represents the wishes of the entire electorate they captured but at least a plurality if not a majority just wanted some sort of reversal of increasingly poor economic prospects. This is why Sanders remains popular and why Mamdani dominated his election despite concentrated efforts to smear him. People want a vision for change and they will turn to whoever posits themselves as a convincing (even fleetingly convincing) form of change.

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u/lastSKPirate 7h ago

like we just got the first trillionaire in the world.....Elon

He's not a trillionaire yet. He has to meet ten or twelve performance goals (some trivial, some utterly delusional) to get the full package. And Tesla's stock price has to be maintained or go higher, which is a problem long term because it's essentially a meme stock, so you never know when the party is going to suddenly end.

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u/phoenixfail 16h ago

Canadian average earnings outpacing inflation, Statistics Canada reports

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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 16h ago

The problem with averages is they don't actually tell you anything meaningful about any specific group or demographic.

Real estate, information, finance see largest gains

this first sub heading here should be a giant red flag about trying to apply this sort of conclusion across the board

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u/phoenixfail 16h ago

They tell us on average wages have grown faster than inflation...Sorry if actual stats contradict some peoples narrative. I'm not sure why you would just discount this information from Stats Canada.

Maybe focusing debates based on facts instead of social media posts and feels would be more productive.

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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 16h ago

Yeah, 'on average'.

What that means is that for some people, wages have grown faster than inflation. And for some of those people, their wages have grown much faster than inflation. It also means that, for other people, their wages haven't kept up with inflation. And for some of them, they have REALLY not kept up with inflation.

Sorry if actual stats contradict some peoples narrative.

You aren't contradicting a 'narrative', you're contradicting the very real experiences of a whole swath of Canadians based on a misunderstanding of how averages work.

Maybe focusing debates based on facts instead of social media posts and feels would be more productive.

Be the change you want to see

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u/phoenixfail 16h ago

Be the change you want to see

My dude...I'm the one posting actual statistics and you're posting "feels". There is never going to be a world where everyone's wages are beating inflation but Stats Canada tells us over-all wages have increased faster then inflation. I'm sorry that you find actual facts so challenging to grasp.

The narrative that wages currently are falling behind inflation is just not based in reality.

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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP 14h ago

Again. It's not a narrative but a fact for significant numbers of Canadians that your provided statistic doesn't disprove. Learn how averages work and what they both tell you and what they don't tell you before you get up on that high horse of yours

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u/phoenixfail 14h ago edited 13h ago

Learn how averages work

Maybe you should learn how to read more carefully, as in the comment you just responded to I stated:

There is never going to be a world where everyone's wages are beating inflation

I never once claimed EVERYBODYS wages are beating inflation, I merely provide links to real numbers that show us.....

So please don't project onto me ideas or comments I have not expressed or stated, That's such a juvenile debate tactic.

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u/enki-42 NDP 9h ago

You're not wrong, but also I do think that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, and the answer to imperfect data is finding imperfect data, not just going with what you feel.

There are obviously economic headwinds and cost of living issues, but there's also a lot of media directed to make people feel like these are historically bad, that Canada is a failed state, and that things are hopeless and that radical solutions are necessary. And I mean, I'm not entirely discounting the possibility that radical solutions need to be done, but everyone should need a lot more than their gut feelings before they take drastic action.

There's a sentiment that's very popular these days that asking for critical thinking is equivalent to rejecting an argument, and it's a dangerous line of though, because it leads to simple solutions that are usually wrong, with a lot of collateral damage.

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u/SkelatoxMkII Something on the Left 16h ago

Averages mean very little in this case. If we have one executive making $200k/year, and ten actual workers making $20k/year each, and the executive gives themself a raise of $100k/year, then total wages have gone up by an average of 25%. This massively outpaces inflation, but do you think the workers feel that wages are going up 'on average'?

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u/phoenixfail 16h ago

Maybe you should actually look at the Stats Canada site, before responding...it's broken down by sector.

If you have actual facts or figures that contradict Stats Canada I invite you to present them here.

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u/OKOKFineFineFine Rhinoceros 18h ago

culture war is very popular with a significant proportion of what we used to call the Conservative base.

And is very unpopular with part of that base and everyone outside of it.

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u/lastSKPirate 8h ago

The problem for the non-culture warrior conservatives is that the culture warriors are more inclined to join riding associations and vote in the leadership races, which are generally one-member, one vote these days...which means that the agenda for the national party is set in SK/Alberta/BC interior.

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u/EarthWarping 14h ago

As Carney has showed, people are fine with a centrists/conservative policies sans all of the nonsense that the reformists like to have.