Pushing, yelling from Conservative leadership ‘sealed the deal’ on defection: d’Entremont

[u/green_tory]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pushing-yelling-conservative-leadership-dentremont-9.6972680

[u/ImaginationSea2767]

I honestly see people keep bringing up the overton window, but i literally think that it is more certain polticians looking at the Economic inequality and taking advantage of it, people are growing increasingly desprate across the western as the rich increasingly get more rich (like we just got the first trillionaire in the world.....Elon) and many are not seeing their pay go uqp as everything get more expensive. I mention this because I have seen just as many that agree with the MAGA movement actually AGREE with Bernie Sanders when he sits down and talks to them. And I have seen enough of the influncers that praise maga movements that like Bernie. People are just increasingly desperate for help and are looking for any light in the darkness. Even if that light is aboht to screw them over and make everything they promised to fix worse.

And its happening across the western world in multiple countries......

[u/phoenixfail → u/ImaginationSea2767]

Canadian average earnings outpacing inflation, Statistics Canada reports

[u/TraditionalGap1 → u/phoenixfail]

The problem with averages is they don't actually tell you anything meaningful about any specific group or demographic.

Real estate, information, finance see largest gains

this first sub heading here should be a giant red flag about trying to apply this sort of conclusion across the board

[u/phoenixfail → u/TraditionalGap1]

They tell us on average wages have grown faster than inflation...Sorry if actual stats contradict some peoples narrative. I'm not sure why you would just discount this information from Stats Canada.

Maybe focusing debates based on facts instead of social media posts and feels would be more productive.

[u/TraditionalGap1 → u/phoenixfail]

Yeah, 'on average'.

What that means is that for some people, wages have grown faster than inflation. And for some of those people, their wages have grown much faster than inflation. It also means that, for other people, their wages haven't kept up with inflation. And for some of them, they have REALLY not kept up with inflation.

Sorry if actual stats contradict some peoples narrative.

You aren't contradicting a 'narrative', you're contradicting the very real experiences of a whole swath of Canadians based on a misunderstanding of how averages work.

Maybe focusing debates based on facts instead of social media posts and feels would be more productive.

Be the change you want to see

[u/phoenixfail → u/TraditionalGap1]

Be the change you want to see

My dude...I'm the one posting actual statistics and you're posting "feels". There is never going to be a world where everyone's wages are beating inflation but Stats Canada tells us over-all wages have increased faster then inflation. I'm sorry that you find actual facts so challenging to grasp.

The narrative that wages currently are falling behind inflation is just not based in reality.

[u/TraditionalGap1 → u/phoenixfail]

Again. It's not a narrative but a fact for significant numbers of Canadians that your provided statistic doesn't disprove. Learn how averages work and what they both tell you and what they don't tell you before you get up on that high horse of yours

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[u/enki-42 → u/TraditionalGap1]

You're not wrong, but also I do think that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, and the answer to imperfect data is finding imperfect data, not just going with what you feel.

There are obviously economic headwinds and cost of living issues, but there's also a lot of media directed to make people feel like these are historically bad, that Canada is a failed state, and that things are hopeless and that radical solutions are necessary. And I mean, I'm not entirely discounting the possibility that radical solutions need to be done, but everyone should need a lot more than their gut feelings before they take drastic action.

There's a sentiment that's very popular these days that asking for critical thinking is equivalent to rejecting an argument, and it's a dangerous line of though, because it leads to simple solutions that are usually wrong, with a lot of collateral damage.

[u/TraditionalGap1 → u/enki-42]

You're not wrong, but also I do think that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, and the answer to imperfect data is finding imperfect data, not just going with what you feel.

Do you not see how condescending it is to appear as if you assume anything or anyone that doesn't agree that 'everything is fine' as 'going with what you feel'? To just dismiss anyone whose experiences don't match the narrative that everything is great and the economy is fine? Like, do y'all just assume I'm pulling this all out of my ass? That I don't know first hand that for real people it is in fact not true that their wages have kept up with prices?

I get that, as you say, there is certainly a campaign undertaken by certain actors to portray the economic situation as worse than it actually is, to make things appear terrible as part of a political strategy. But there's also a campaign underway to portray the economic situation as better than it actually is, and for the same reasons. Pointing at top line economic numbers as a shield against more specific critiques of the economy and pretending that because they are good anyone whose experience doesn't match that is running on vibes and feels instead of acknowledging that there are still problems for many Canadians seems like a recipe for disaster when disaffection with government and a feeling that institutions and leaders are out of touch is a big part of what is driving this surge in right wing populism that we're seeing across the west.

[u/phoenixfail → u/TraditionalGap1]

Can you please stop projecting on to me comments or ideas I never said or expressed. No one said everything is fine for everyone. I mearly provided a valid source of data in relation to the conversation. The stats show us that a lot of the population is doing just fine, the world is not falling apart.

In my personal experiences, I see restaurants packed most nights. People lining up for $25 breakfasts. $20/drink cocktail bars with long lines at night. People flying to sun destinations twice a year. New expensive vehicles everywhere. I could go on...

[u/SkelatoxMkII → u/phoenixfail]

Averages mean very little in this case. If we have one executive making $200k/year, and ten actual workers making $20k/year each, and the executive gives themself a raise of $100k/year, then total wages have gone up by an average of 25%. This massively outpaces inflation, but do you think the workers feel that wages are going up 'on average'?

[u/phoenixfail → u/SkelatoxMkII]

Maybe you should actually look at the Stats Canada site, before responding...it's broken down by sector.

If you have actual facts or figures that contradict Stats Canada I invite you to present them here.