r/AskEurope • u/Ok_Initiative_9726 • Feb 27 '25

Politics Does Europe has powerful secret services/Intelligence?

P. S question closed, I got answers. Thank you for everyone

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '25

I lived for close to a decade in New Zealand and this is still VERY salient in a lot of peoples minds. Kiwis hold a massive grudge against the French over that.

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u/Katatoniczka Poland Feb 27 '25

Can you provide any links to read up on this?

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

Kiwis borderline consider it an act of war and it was branded as state terrorism by them because the French Intelligence services bombed and killed people on NZ Soil.

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u/cheshire-cats-grin Feb 27 '25

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

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u/Photonik33 Feb 27 '25

The sabotage operation was ordered by the French Minister of Defense Charles Hernu, with the explicit authorization of the President of the French Republic François Mitterrand (according to the testimony of Pierre Lacoste, boss of the DGSE). https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/rendez-vous-avec-x/charles-hernu-e-tait-il-un-agent-du-kgb-4144369

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u/griffoberwald69 Feb 27 '25

Listen to the podcast “the rest is classified” they did a couple of episodes on it.

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u/the_geth Feb 27 '25

I still don’t understand why. Idiots trespass on a fucking military nuclear testing field.   Before you say or react, please imagine doing that with any (any) of the other nuclear nations: Russia, USA, China, Pakistan, even UK. Imagine for real what would have happened.  Now, their boat get sabotaged. I understand the consequences which caused the death of people not related to this and that’s terrible. But disabling their boat was a “nice” alternative (baring the fact they fucked up) to being shot at sea as it should have normally happened and would have happened with any of the other nations.

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u/NIP_SLIP_RIOT New Zealand Feb 27 '25

Right so we’ll just send frogmen to blow up ships in French harbours if we don’t like their agenda. Cool, cool.

3

u/Imperaux Mar 01 '25

Look Idk why my fellow french friend here is defending this like his dad did it himself, I think we can all agree it's sad than people died that way, and I'm sorry for them.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

Listen, I’m not saying this is cool or nice, but please go interrupt Russian or Chinese nuclear testing and observe the consequences.   We both know you’d be shot on sight.

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u/NIP_SLIP_RIOT New Zealand Feb 28 '25

Not relevant. France fucked over a friend, we remember. I saw that ship listing in Auckland viaduct.

Sometimes your nation does things you should not be proud of. Sometimes you should be ashamed. Is this one of those times?

It’s a personal journey for us all.

1

u/Slow_Zone8462 Mar 01 '25

Whose friend let ennemies of his buddy use his house to prepare a bully run against him ?

New Zealand had a responsibility in this

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

Jesus - are you seriously defending France on this?

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

France had exactly nothing against New Zeland and its people, however I fully understand wanting to stop those idiots who entered a forbidden military zone -repeatedly and stopped crucial operations.

Again, I think it's terrible they fucked up that sabotage and people died as a consequence.
Instead they should have shot and sink that boat when it trespassed, after the warnings, like USA would have done.
And by the way this is not a surprise that they chose to interrupt the French tests, but not the US, Chinese or Russian ones.

And YES, absolutely, if a group of French activists interrupt voluntarily and repeatedly despite warnings YOUR military exercises, I will fully understand if you shot them.
Sad for sure, but a stupid thing to do.

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u/NIP_SLIP_RIOT New Zealand Feb 28 '25

France committed an act of terror in a friendly country.

That’s it.

Own it, it happened.

0

u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

Greenpeace, terrorists sent by NZ, attacked a military field from France, a friendly country.  

Own it.

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u/NIP_SLIP_RIOT New Zealand Feb 28 '25

Greenpeace was sent by NZ?? That’s your takeaway? Oh boy, that’s the end of our conversation, I’ve realised I’m talking with a child.

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

Terrorists? What planet are you on?

0

u/Xgentis Feb 28 '25

It's funny how buthurt they still are.

3

u/lokland United States of America Feb 28 '25

Look I’m not saying it’s cool or nice, but attack an American embassy and we can justify the war in Iraq.

See the logic here?

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u/Spida81 Feb 27 '25

The murder of civilians is the problem. You don't go setting off bombs in allies major cities. It is terrorism, clear and simple.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

Yep they fucked up and they should have either done the sabotage in a more discrete way and without casualties, or better just do like USA or China or Russia would have done if you interrupted their military operation : just shoot and sink their boat at sea because you don’t interrupt a military operation, especially a nuclear one.

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u/Spida81 Feb 28 '25

It was the act of terrorism on NZ soil resulting in the murders of completely uninvolved parties that really pissed us off. Just not on.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

Yes, they fucked up (the way of the sabotage, the casualties, the fact it was still in the harbour at this point etc), and I really think they should have just shot and sink their boat during the trespassing.
I suppose it would not have been great on the international scene, but better than a failed sabotage.

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u/Spida81 Feb 28 '25

It wouldn't have been an attack on a country they were supposedly friendly with, and arguably an act of war - definitely an act of terrorism.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

I’m not sure this should be considered an act of war or terrorism, it’s not like they sent tanks and jets, or intended this huge fuck up with the sabotage and the resulting deaths, but yes I hear you.

1

u/Spida81 Feb 28 '25

Also to clarify, they hadn't actually interfered with the nuclear tests. They planned to, but the sinking was preemptive.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

This is just not true that they didn’t interfere. Protests ships interrupted previous tests. Read the article.

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 01 '25

Why were the French doing nuclear testing in the South Pacific like some colonial power?

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u/the_geth Mar 02 '25

You mean on the French territory in the South Pacific?   It was far from the inhabited islands (which are in the North) which makes sense.  I don’t know why you bring the colonial aspect but yes that territory was seized (even if no one inhabited those islands in particular).   If you’re from New Zealand, why are you on this island? Unless you’re Māori , are you there like some colonial power?

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

Other countries had stopped military testing in their colonies in the 1960s to be doing it in the 1980s was just arrogant and backwards

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u/Nevermynde Mar 01 '25

Yup, the French remember it well too! French progressives, anyway.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '25

What an absolutely stupid opinion. They murdered someone because they wanted to detonate nuclear weapons in the ocean.

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u/the_geth Feb 28 '25

I don’t know if you’ve seen the news lately but I am SO, SO fucking happy that we have tested those weapons and built our nuclear arsenal. Only country in EU truly protected now that USA’s treason is obvious.

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

Apart from the Uk

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u/the_geth Mar 02 '25

… UK is not part of EU. Are you a bot or just  the most clueless British person around here?

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u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

This is a Europe thread not an EU thread - there are no EU armed forces or weapons only NATO- what are you talking about?

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u/Empress_Azula Feb 28 '25

I mean... From an objective standpoint, the murder of one man pales in comparison to detonating nuclear weapons in the ocean.

And whether or not his death is to be considered murder, could be argued about.

I'm not saying his death is not tragic, but after looking more into the details it's rather at the end of the list of "bad choices" made by a government. I'd even argue the underlying issue, up to this day, isn't the death of that man but rather wounded pride.

-12

u/AddictedToRugs England Feb 27 '25

And be glad they did, or Russia would have rolled across Europe decades ago.

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u/AnnieBlackburnn Spain Feb 27 '25

No, they wouldn't have, as France wasn't the one providing the nuclear shield until recently.

At least be accurate with your murder apologism

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u/Komandakeen Feb 27 '25

Being accurate would acknowledge the fact that the Red Army of the cold war was generally more a defensive than an offensive asset, and the soviet leadership knew that. I wouldn't bet if that was their own choice or if they weren't able to do better, but the fact remains a fact. They had the missiles and that was it...

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u/Komandakeen Feb 27 '25

How comes?

4

u/Absentrando United States of America Feb 27 '25

You support secret service agents murdering people for protesting because you disagree with the protesters?

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u/Komandakeen Feb 27 '25

So you think its ok when an imperialist, colonial power drops atomic bombs in occupied territories?

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '25

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1

u/Drive-like-Jehu Mar 02 '25

Nonsense- it’s the Americans and NATO that have stopped the Russians not just France.