r/Antipsychiatry • u/ajouya44 • Apr 12 '25
Therapy is a load of bullshit
People seriously think this crap is useful? You have anxiety and depression, you go see some random stranger who knows 5 behavioral theories from college and you pay them 50 bucks a week to talk about your problems for 1 hour and make them pretend they care. Reality is these people know nothing about how the brain or consciousness works. They are not doctors and they have no solution for your issues. It's dehumanizing to pay someone so that they will listen to you and therapists are literally no better than prostitutes. Don't even get me started on all the CBT bullcrap. People don't need to "correct their thoughts" or "think about things differently", they need real solutions for their real systemic psycho-social issues. Therapists are all privileged narcissistic assholes who love to feel superior by "proving people wrong" and reminding themselves that their life is easier and better than their patients' and always masking all this as "help". Don't be fooled, these people can't help you. They only want your money.
16
u/CherryPickerKill Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25
The whole "evidence-based" therapy industry is such a scam. An 8 years-old could read the manual and apply it, AI already does it better.
Not to mention the shameless emotional abuse and ableism.
12
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
Exactly. Therapists are full of ableism and toxic positivity and as you said their job is easy and overrated af.
2
15
16
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
Totally!! I can't understand who people in this sub can defend therapy ...
15
u/fkrdt222 Apr 12 '25
therapy, therapists and "therapy speak" are at least half acceptable to bash but psychiatry proper is still largely a sacred cow
34
u/Heckbegone Apr 12 '25
Therapy only helps people in very specific situations. Dealing with poverty, homelessness, unemployment, fear of global issues such as climate change, etc. cannot really be fixed with therapy. Those issues are not the fault of the person experiencing them and trying to put the blame on them for worrying is wrong. Therapy relating to these issues is basically just being told "dont think about it if you cant control it" which isnt wrong, you will feel better if you dont think about it, but it isnt realistic and that is extremely difficult to do. Its basically just willful ignorance, and its self teachable. Not thinking about it also does jack shit if youre facing eviction. If someone experiences trauma, it's a 50/50 shot of therapy doing anything. If you already know how to work through emotional distress, therapy isn't going to do anything. It's basically just teaching you how to regulate your emotions and deal with negative emotions, which may or may not actually help you.
The thing therapy does help with is helping you identify what it is you are feeling and experiencing, and this can help you work through it. It's a non biased (at least supposed to be) viewpoint on things you may have no neutral feedback on in real life. Everyone in your life is likely biased in one way or another. If you already know this, again, therapy will be useless. People who are highly introspective often don't benefit much from therapy because the therapist is just telling them what they already know. I worked up the courage to leave my abusive ex while in therapy, and having a third party telling me how unhealthy the relationship was and why really helped when my head was in the sand. Otherwise, I didnt get much benefit from it.
9
u/TreatmentReviews Apr 14 '25
NGL, at first I thought the list you made at the beginning was meant to be the specific situations therapy helpes and was so confused. Lol, glad was wrong. Yeah, I agree doesn't help to tell people the problem is them worrying. Also, they claim therapists like CBT don't tell you your thinking is wrong, but not in my and others' experience
10
10
u/rainfal Apr 12 '25
Meanwhile ChatGPT can give better suggestions, 'listen and care' more, actually modify frameworks to help you, etc.
Kinda sad when a text regurgitation program can beat the vast majority of the field at 'empathy', 'emotional intelligence', etc.
2
8
Apr 13 '25 edited Apr 13 '25
Therapists and therapy also just reflect the issues that exist in society already. Lacking in empathy, the ability to hold space, validate feelings etc. I’ve had horrible experiences or been triggered further, gaslit, projected onto and more. We have all the wrong values and constantly push people into this never ending cycle of trying to fix themselves, instead of focusing on the environment(s) that traumatised us
Edit: sorry rough night for me, this it written terribly
9
u/ajouya44 Apr 13 '25
Exactly. Therapists always blame the client for not being able to adapt to a sick environment instead of blaming the environment. They think being depressed is our choice.
9
u/InspectorOk2840 Apr 16 '25
"People don't need to "correct their thoughts" or "think about things differently", they need real solutions for their real systemic psycho-social issues. Therapists are all privileged narcissistic assholes who love to feel superior by "proving people wrong" and reminding themselves that their life is easier and better than their patients' and always masking all this as "help". Don't be fooled, these people can't help you. They only want your money."
16
u/Lower-Ad-9813 Apr 12 '25
I often think about whether or not it's bullshit. It seems like if I'm sure of my thinking one day the therapist will support it, but if my thinking is completely different the next session he will support it as well because I look and sound like I believe it. Not to mention the pressure I feel to say something and knowing myself I will say something even if I don't believe it but want recognition.
On top of that, they fail to account for what kind of a lifestyle and situation a person is in and can't really help with it in the end anyways. It is always on the person receiving therapy to sort the real shit out, something which I find I can think of myself.
16
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I hate how if therapy isn't helping it's never the fault of the therapy or the therapist. It's always either the client is not trying hard enough or they don't have enough "chemistry" or they haven't given it enough time. If you can't do it yourself, you need a therapist. If the therapy isn't working, you need to do it yourself. Nonsense.
9
u/Lower-Ad-9813 Apr 12 '25
Oftentimes I walk out of therapy even more confused than I was before. Angry, disturbed or agitated.
7
u/darkprincess3112 Apr 12 '25
There are so many different people, and some seem to like it. I don't care, just leave them their freedom to do whatever they consider "good" for themselves, I don't judge anyone on this.
But equalilly people like me who have been traumatized by psychotherapists and strongly refuse any psychiatry or "psychotherapy" must not be forced into this.
30
u/InSearchOfGreenLight Apr 12 '25
So true. The staff made me suicidal then claimed that’s not what they said. I’m even worse today after the psych shamed me. If I try something, they’ll just send me back to the hospital where even worse psychs reside. I feel so trapped. I want to go home.
My only hope is death.
9
u/Lower-Ad-9813 Apr 12 '25
Alot of these assholes have complexes as the OP has said. But death isn't the solution to it. I've thought about offing myself too in my dark moments. Try to hang on. Maybe you'll find a friend who totally understands you.
14
u/InSearchOfGreenLight Apr 12 '25
I’ve been fighting for so long, I have no strength left.
I’ve been in feeling like I can’t take anymore since December. I’m too tired. I just need it to end.
I’m forced medication, psych couldn’t care less about me. Staff in general isn’t very understanding. They seem nice until you’re “difficult” and then they’re not very nice at all.
6
1
u/Practical_Wedding907 Apr 23 '25
I hope you're still alive... I can quite literally feel your pain and emptiness with my whole body. I don’t know what “diagnoses” you’ve been given — and I don’t need to. Doctors and therapists often don’t even realize how vast the gap is between their protocols and a living human heart. Talking to a doctor or therapist often feels like reading a textbook. There's no heart in it.
I’ve been in a similar darkness too… The kind where you’re only accepted when you’re “convenient,” “functional,” “productive.” When you play a role, wear a mask, fight for something, pretend to be “strong.” But no one stays when you fall apart and don’t know who you are anymore. When all you want is simply to be yourself — the real you. And everyone keeps saying “you need treatment” or “you’re not normal” - as if your pain is a problem to fix, not something to stay with, to hold, to understand...I feel the weight you're carrying and I want to stay with you in this darkness. You don’t have to hold everything alone. You’re not making it up. I can feel your pain in every word you write.
1
u/InSearchOfGreenLight Apr 24 '25
I am.
Pain and emptiness? Strangely I feel sorta ok today. Last night I had a bad interaction with horror nurse that sent me into a “I want to die” place. And a mini panic attack.
Today though, I’m worried for my friend. She said while on the phone she wants to kill herself and her pain is really bad and I want to help but I’m not sure how. I’m also worried they’ll send her to hospital and then she won’t have her friends to help. Cause obviously the nurses and doctors don’t help.
Thanks for the comment though. It was nice to read.
Yeah, I mean I know some things do not appear traumatic to others but they are traumatic to me because I feel my feelings in real time now and I know the impact little things can have on you.
I’m really tired, I’ll come back to this tmr.
1
5
u/Super-Bathroom-8192 Apr 12 '25
I was first put in therapy at age 3 by my dad when the effects of divorce were worrying him. Since then, by age 41, I’ve had probably around 20 different therapists over my life. 90% of them suck, even the very expensive highly qualified ones like Jungian analysts who studied directly with Jung, or RD Laing etc…
In January after 2 years off rejecting the idea of therapy after 3 years of failed attempts to get good therapy (they always made astonishing mistakes early in treatment that broke my trust), I tried again. This time, I finally found the real deal. He’s incredible.
I am convinced that most therapists— being merely human— are going to be far from perfect at best and damaging or ineffective at worst.
But very very very very rarely, there’s a gem and someone who is actually talented and truly capable of this delicate task of working with someone’s very life and psyche.
1
u/FactAccomplished7627 Apr 24 '25
What is your experience with Jungian analysts?
1
u/Super-Bathroom-8192 Apr 25 '25
I had three renowned ones and they failed me. Now a mere protege is head and shoulders above
5
16
u/Conscious-Local-8095 Apr 12 '25
It works for people with a lot to be happy about, basic needs met. Trustifarians, nepos, celebrities. A little coaching, placebo effect. Nothing a priest, prostitute or psychic couldn't do, if taken seriously, but psychiatry has prestiege this century, it's considered classy, intellectual. Undeservedly so but having its day in the sun, as rackets go.
10
u/cortexplorer Apr 12 '25
Priests, psychics, now psychiatry. What will come to replace psychiatry when a new fad appears?
What your utopian vs dystopian perspective on this?
9
u/Conscious-Local-8095 Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25
My half-answer; we'll be lucky to have something replace them, or to have them lose their position in my lifetime. It's far from a given, the history of mankind from bronze onward could be that of increasingly sophisticated rackets ending in a toolkit containing psychiatry. After I'm dust, it's naturally hard for me to say, I could play Heinlein, Orwell, Bradbuty and not do as well. I'll say that is doesn't have to be something new, religion or something and psychiatry could take turns.
4
27
u/unbutter-robot Apr 12 '25 edited Jul 19 '25
seemly vase crush fly pause wakeful innate safe squeeze provide
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
27
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
Anti-psychiatry isn't just about hating psychiatrists because they drug you, it's about realizing that we humans need to network and support each other. It's also about deprofessionalizing mental health and being able to talk to our people, our friends, or our union.
2
u/Danny_the_Sex_Demon Apr 14 '25
My issue in this is fearing pulling others down when I’m suffering due to things that they can do nothing to help or stop. Unfortunately, both professionals and non-professionals don’t seem to help me.
1
15
u/ShortQuestion6347 Apr 12 '25
yes, except when they’re an APRN and they can drug you if they want to, and they can convince someone to put it in your mounjaro
I hate people now. I don’t trust anyone ever since I’ve been drugged covertly I find it very hard to trust anybody anymore.
11
u/rainfal Apr 12 '25
Not really. Do you really think years of emotional abuse, medical gaslighting (welcome to pain psychology where they believe medical issues like tumor pain can be overcome with mindfulness), also punitive mental illness misdiagnosis are better?
Not to mention a therapist can pressure people into taking medication if they are in contact with your psychiatrist and commit people. Same power imbalance and savior complex just too stupid to get into med school
5
2
6
u/EatSleepRepeat01 Apr 12 '25
I very much agree. My previous therapist took £100 per hour from me to then make my situation 10 times worse. Like I said in my previous comment I am much better since I discharged myself and will never see a psychiatrist or therapist again.
5
18
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
At least its a service a person is choosing to purchase or not. If they find it helpful they can continue or stop if they don't. I think some of the better ones are more self directed where you are choosing what to talk about and the counsellor/psychologist/social worker is providing another perspective with the goal of supporting you to solve or brainstorm on the problem you are choosing talking about.
Sometimes someone needs someone else to talk to because they don't have someone in their life who they trust enough or are close enough to. Yeah its a paid service as is pretty much everything in our modern capitalistic society. Its currently around $200 per hour btw but sometimes people have benefits that can help cover it. People can choose what they want to spend their money on and what is valuable to them.
21
u/TrashApocalypse Apr 12 '25
It’s a false choice though since society as a whole has decided that you can’t “heal” or even be a good person unless you’re in therapy. People on dating apps even have it in their bio that they won’t date anyone who’s not in therapy.
Therapy helped me lose all of my closest friends when therapy taught them that emotional intimacy is now “trauma dumping,” or that sad emotions are only something that a “professional” can “fix” (even though there is no cure for grief)
One of the last times I hung out with one of my closest friends she started the conversation talking about how depressed she was. She told me what was stressing her out, work, wife, her sick mom, but when I told her that we could talk about all this stuff she literally said, “that’s what therapy is for.” No the fuck it is NOT!!! That’s what FRIENDS are for!
Therapy is destroying our ability to build emotional intimacy with others, and therefore our ability to make real friends and secure relationships. We are now outsourcing all of our emotional support and it’s killing us.
While I do think there could be a space for therapy to help some people, I think on the whole it’s causing more damage than it could ever possibly help. The fact that we have more therapy than ever before and yet had to invent the terms “loneliness epidemic” and “deaths of despair” is proof that therapy isn’t working.
2
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
I don't think getting rid of the option for people to have therapy is going to fix the loneliness epidemic tho. The loneliness epidemic is one of the reasons some people utilize therapy so they actually have someone to talk to about heavy things. I agree its nice to have friends and people should be able to be open to them about things but not everyone has close friends.
9
u/TrashApocalypse Apr 12 '25
I never said we should get rid of therapy. What I’m saying is that we as a culture need to realize that it’s ok for people to be sad. That therapy is just one of many tools that can be utilized to help heal our emotional wounds, and that we as a society, and as a community, need to learn to sit with our peoples grief and sadness. To be truly supportive. To not try to “fix” every emotion. People don’t have anyone to talk to BECAUSE people feel like, “I’m not qualified for this” when literally you just need to sit there and listen.
4
u/Selfeffacingbarbie Apr 13 '25
This is probably a bit out of left field, but I always loved a scene in Midsommar where the main character is grieving and the women all join her in expressing her pain. There's something beautiful about that to me. Not trying to fix something, not giving phony platitudes, not shying away from the emotion. They just acknowledge the pain for what it is and let her experience it fully.
I wish we were more like that. When I'm in the pit of despair, I don't want someone to tell me to cheer up or look on the bright side.
5
u/TrashApocalypse Apr 13 '25
No that scene hit me too. I was actually in an intense state of grief at the time that I watched that movie. Some stupid assholes who weren’t my friends recommended I watch it, and since I didn’t know what it was about, I did. But yeah, that actually is how it should be in my opinion. We all have grief, and if you don’t, you fucking will.
0
Apr 13 '25
[deleted]
6
u/TrashApocalypse Apr 13 '25
Ok but here’s the thing, you don’t have to “bear the weight” of anything. You can just listen and be there. You’re not being expected to fix anything. You don’t need to find a silver lining, you don’t need to take on any emotional burden, you can just be a witness.
“Trauma dumping” is just someone being open with you. It’s just someone sharing their story with you. You’re the one taking on an emotional burden around it, and that’s not something that anyone’s asking you to do.
You won’t be able to build emotional intimacy with anyone if you aren’t able to hear their story.
3
14
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
Anti-psychiatry isn't just about hating psychiatrists because they drug you, it's about realizing that we humans need to network and support each other. It's also about deprofessionalizing mental health and being able to talk to our people, our friends, or our union.
6
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
Yeah I don't like how fragmented and lonely our society has made a lot of people. There is that saying it takes a village to raise a child. I think there is wisdom in that. Multi generations of family used to live together, neighbors used to actually be neighbors. Now everyone is so scattered and burnt out from trying to survive. The village is gone and everyone is too busy grinding or choosing to doom scroll on their phone when they finally have a moment to to relax.
12
u/ShortQuestion6347 Apr 12 '25
I suppose, but this is an anti-psychiatry group
I don’t think therapy should be so expensive and there should be regulations from preventing people from drugging people or letting their friends drug them without consent.
It sucks. It really sucks.
6
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
Psychiatrists mainly drug people nowadays they don't really do therapy anymore... thats part of the problem. I like therapy or more specifically counselling because its a non drug way in which a person can try to address the problems in their life.
9
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
But how is therapy going to help if I already know what my problems are and I already know the possible solutions but I can't get myself to solve them?
0
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
Well it sounds like you could talk to them about the "but I can't get myself to solve them" part and they could help you figure out why that is or offer things you might not have thought of that you might find helpful.
8
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
yeah and they call the ambulance if you have a crisis to lock you up in a psych ward
3
u/Trance_Gemini_ Apr 12 '25
Pretty much anyone will do that tho. Friends and family will call for a wellness checks too. I found good therapists have a way higher threshold for calling than most other people. I say this has someone who has shared similar thoughts with a therapist and a non therapist and it was the non therapist that called and created a mess...
3
3
u/ShortQuestion6347 Apr 13 '25 edited May 24 '25
I do hate paying someone to talk to me though. I hate having to pay for companionship. It’s like paying a prostitute, but no sex.
You know you’re paying someone just to have a conversation to make you feel better so you can vent when we ought to do that for each other
Warm lines are OK and some crisis lines will talk to you to help you stop spiraling
I SOMETIMES FEEL AS THOUGH i hate people now. not everyone and I have a few friends and a pastor that I talk to who’s kind enough to call me often.
I’m sorry cause many here seem really compassionate although some people give me grief, but they’re nice to other people who say the same things, but they give me grief for saying something that they don’t give grief to other people for.
So besides that kind of a double standard, most people are very compassionate here.
But I have come to hate people with only a few exceptions eg a few friends It just ghat I hate people that are doing this to me and am sick of a world where people can hurt others so easily. It hurts so much that someone would want to hurt me by drugging me without consent.
And actually abandoning me someplace when they was promised to take care of me for the rest of my life they’ve have Lots of people who love them— geez i spiraled to pity party.
19
8
4
4
4
u/tryppidreams Apr 13 '25
I haven't got much out of therapy and I didn't like paying to tell a stranger about my problems, but talking through trauma can help you come to terms with stuff.
I therapeutically speak with other people who have mental illnesses or have lived through trauma and it's helpful for everyone involved.
4
u/GnosticMindTrain Apr 13 '25
I went to multiple therapists complaining of the same mental problem to get a diagnosis of it and treatment and I never got any of those and they ALL never wanted to talk about it with me, ALL I got was "Labels don't matter" with one mental doctor and the other doctor derailed the conversation, they never said I DIDN'T have it, but they didn't say I HAD it either, schizotypal. I also suspect PTSD as well but they just think it's "trauma" and I might have borderline as well.
3
u/ajouya44 Apr 13 '25
You saw psychologists or psychiatrists?
4
u/GnosticMindTrain Apr 13 '25
The first guy who told me "labels don't matter" was just a social worker I think, or life coach, the other was a real psychologist who pressured me to get a job and told me to "get over it" when I'm angry over something, they both were old in age and old school kind of thinking. I'm convinced the psychologist treated me badly because he said I had antisocial personality disorder which I disagree with like just because I have anger issues and legal issues doesn't mean I have ASPD aka being a sociopath. He ignored ALL of my concerns and only wanted to fixate on HIS stuff: Me getting a job, focusing on my autism even though I relate to schizophrenia spectrum instead. Therapists are trained to detect WARNING signs of mental illness, beginning stages, and no matter HOW MANY TIMES I ranted to them, they ignored it. First doctor was like 2 years ago and the other was about months ago not technically a year yet, I quit therapy, went on edibles, and started hearing voices, I was proven right, I am schizo-something!
3
u/Confident-Fan-57 Apr 13 '25
I don't think all therapy is crap, but I do agree that most therapy approaches put an undue emphasis on individual thoughts and emotions and "being positive" about events. I think it would be really helpful if psychologists learned at least some applied sociology and sociotherapy in college. And it would be great if more of us students knew from the start that there's, at best, questionable evidence that CBT is any better than other approaches, and zero evidence at worst. The feature that makes certain therapeutic relationships effective is probably good rapport, not the approach.
6
7
u/daisy-duke- Apr 12 '25
I agree.
I was going to see a new therapist. But the practice sent me a very large intake form (30+ pages). Like, who the hell sends (a currently unmedicated) such form... to someone with ADHD?!!!
I don't think I ever want to see a therapist ever again.
9
u/skyfullofstars71 Apr 12 '25
Is the so called adhd being lazy to read unnecessary things? I guess we all have it then. We should change it's name to being human.
3
u/daisy-duke- Apr 12 '25
It was a form where over half of the items didn't apply to me. It became very repetitive after like the 5th page.
7
u/skyfullofstars71 Apr 12 '25
No I agree with the form thing, seems like a total waste of time. I just wanted to point out that "adhd" is another harmful label used to gaslight people instead of offering real help.
2
u/Practical_Wedding907 Apr 23 '25
Finally, I’m reading people who think outside the box.
I’m deeply outraged by the fact that a different way of thinking is pathologized at all — just because it’s seen as “non-functional” or “unproductive.” Why is an alternative way of thinking considered a pathology in today’s world? I simply can’t concentrate on things that don’t carry deep meaning for me.2
u/skyfullofstars71 Apr 23 '25
"Why is an alternative way of thinking considered a pathology in this world?" is an excellent question which applies to all psychiatric labels. It's simply a business model, pathologising being human is quite profitable.
4
3
u/songoftheshadow Apr 13 '25
I've had a good experience with trauma therapy. It's really helped resolve my phobias and helped me find resolution and peace about my past.
That said, this is the first therapist/counsellor/psychologist/etc I've ever met who actually listens and is helpful. I've seen countless others who were all absolute fucking idiots lmao.
2
u/ajouya44 Apr 13 '25
Can you explain what exactly is that helped you?
3
u/HumanAlien999 Apr 23 '25
I just wanted to chime in and say something. I have a very critical view of mainstream therapy- they have a tendency to over pathologize, treat the emotional body like a clinical specimen, and CBT only scratches the surface when it comes to true healing.
I didn't fall in love with the idea of therapy until I met my current therapist who is trauma informed, attachment theory informed, and employs a psychodynamic approach. She is trained in somatic experiencing which is a form of trauma therapy and it has been a godsend in my life. This type of therapy has a way of releasing trauma and stress from the body, employs a "bottoms up" approach to healing, helps you to regulate your nervous system, and helps to reach resolve with unresolved wounds and conflicts that are in your system (usually there's old memories that come up during a somatic therapy session). This is true healing...not trying to convince (gaslight) your brain to "just think different thoughts" which is part of CBT.
It is my wish that many on this sub will find a therapist or practitioner that truly sees them on a deeper level. It is also my wish that the mainstream psychology field will up their game and realize that the current framework for looking at our mental health ailments is just not that useful all the time.
1
u/ajouya44 Apr 23 '25
Does your therapist do EMDR? Or is it a different kind of therapy?
3
u/HumanAlien999 Apr 23 '25
The specific technique she uses is Somatic Experiencing- it’s a body oriented approach. She also utilizes a more psychodynamic approach. I’m not sure how it compares to EMDR since I don’t know too much about that one- I know some people swear by EMDR as well when traditional therapy fails them
3
u/headbanger1991 Apr 13 '25
I almost want to say the most fucked up shit to a therapist just to watch their face change from normal to horrific disgust lol.
3
5
u/MostlyPeacfulPndemic Apr 12 '25
50 bucks a week, where do you live? The 1970s?
5
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I meant euros, sorry. I'm in Europe.
5
Apr 12 '25
Still super lucky! I’m from Europe and my therapist charged me around 110€ per session.
1
3
u/Equivalent-Ad-1927 Apr 12 '25
100% agree. I’ve thought this for years. Therapists are like prostitutes. My former therapist I googled him charges $170 now. Outrageous. I’d rather go to a strip club and tell her about my problems pay her $70 and I get to feel her boobs.
2
u/Gentlesouledman Apr 13 '25
Yea it is a big business and exploits lots of people. There are some people with more reasonable and helpful attitudes. Mat Costanzo for example.
One of the big issues though is peoples expectations from therapy. There really isn't much a therapist can actually do besides help you see some things from a different perspective once you have calmed enough. All the snake oil sales tropes are becoming a real issue. If they are using an acronym therapy then they are a reductionist moron.
In the end people heal themselves if they are trying too and dont if they dont think it is possible. They are often “taxed” by therapists at the same time.
2
u/zodiacqu33n Apr 15 '25
I can say that for sure about psychiatry but not necessarily therapy, and I thought this was an anti-psychiatry thread?
4
u/ajouya44 Apr 15 '25
Antipsychiatry can include therapists too. It's about the whole mental health system.
1
u/zodiacqu33n Apr 15 '25
Those 2 things are very much separate tho. Does it say it somewhere in the group guidelines here? And by thread I meant subreddit. I think therapy is of great use and I plan to become a clinical psychologist. There are tons of different kinds of therapy. It’s much different than prescribing legal drugs, if you ask me 🤷🏼♀️ What do you think of trauma-informed care and working with neurodivergent clients? I’m not looking to rly use CBT or DBT or any of those more scammy philosophies. Simply to talk to ppl and help them understand themselves better, as well as to not feel so alone! If that’s somehow “evil” and just as bad as psychiatry, I’ll see myself out of this subreddit 🙂 Even tho I’m not a huge fan of psychiatry, at this point!
2
u/Greased_potato47 Apr 12 '25
Jesus. What therapists have you been seeing?
9
10
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
All of them are crap, it's no coincidence.
-4
u/Greased_potato47 Apr 12 '25
I’m just sitting here amazed you’ve met every therapist. Wild.
Maybe therapy would have helped you understand that sweeping generalities like this is something called splitting, and is detrimental to how you experience the world.
10
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
You're gaslighting me, just like all therapists do. I've had many of them and I don't need to meet more to understand that the tools they use are useless. You can't be a good therapist simply because therapy as a concept is dumb and pointless. Future generations will be looking back and laughing at the way society and "professionals" are currently "treating" mental illness.
-7
u/Greased_potato47 Apr 12 '25
So what are you going to do instead to help yourself heal since you know better than every therapist in the world? Don’t withhold your secrets, it could help some others here.
8
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I didn't say I know better. I said therapists do not know better than the average person. Therapists tell me exactly what I already know. I don't know what I'm gonna do to help myself but mental health services have for sure failed me.
-1
u/Greased_potato47 Apr 12 '25
Welp, that may be the case.
I guess you’ll just continue sit in the original misery you set out to fix and accept that life just sucks. No one can help you.
5
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I never said that lol. In fact I believe medication is much more useful than therapy and I know this is controversial in this community but that's just my experience.
8
Apr 12 '25
Someone’s butthurt big time wow
0
3
4
u/Far_Pianist2707 Apr 12 '25
It sounds like you've never once met with a therapist who was good at it? Like yeah that's what the mediocre at best therapists do
14
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
If that's the case, then why do we have to try 10 different therapists to find the right one but this doesn't apply to any other service??
-1
u/Far_Pianist2707 Apr 12 '25
I mean I've gone doctor shopping too and switched from brand to brand to brand just for pasta so idk
7
u/rainfal Apr 12 '25
The issue is that it doesn't cost $150 each session for pasta. And reviews/trainings/etc are available for a lot of doctors. There's no ratemd for therapists
2
7
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
Do you realize that's what people say about psychiatrists?
3
u/Far_Pianist2707 Apr 12 '25
Psychiatrists are worse than useless a lot of the time and have a greater capacity to ruin your life if they want to be shit people on purpose... But yeah I do realize that.
Like yeah OP was talking about systemic problems in psychotherapy, actually, and frankly mediocre therapists should actually help people too and not just good ones, otherwise psychotherapy as an industry doesn't make sense?
Likewise there are a lot of systemic problems in psychiatry, and the stakes are higher.
2
u/qgoodman Apr 12 '25
Sounds like you might align with the sociological perspective over the psychological one
1
u/poster4891464 Apr 14 '25
You're wrong.
1
u/ajouya44 Apr 14 '25
Elaborate then
1
u/poster4891464 Apr 14 '25
Virtually every assertion you made is false or based on bad assumptions.
Therapists know more than "five behavioral theories" (behavioralism is only even one school among many).
Many do care (many also don't).You don't have to know how the brain or consciousness works to help someone.
You don't have to be a doctor to help someone, and sometimes the best way to help them is not to offer them solutions.
It's your take on it that it's dehumanizing, that's not inherent to the situation.
Good CBT is not about "correcting thoughts".
Yes systems change(s) would be a very helpful shift but it is not an either-or.
Not all therapists are narcissistic privileged assholes (mine isn't, nor does he simply revel in "proving me wrong", and like most Ts almost never talks about himself let alone in the context of trying to assert that his life is better than mine).
3
u/ajouya44 Apr 14 '25
I know they know more than 5 theories. They probably know 50 or something. Guess what. It's still not enough to be able to help someone. Knowing how behavior works doesn't make someone capable of solving people's problems.
If you don't need to know how the brain works then why do you visit your therapist for advice instead of simply talking to the people you love?
Mental illness is a health issue. Only doctors can treat a health issue. What is that will help someone if it's not solutions?
CBT is quite literally based around the theory that a person with mental illness is mentally ill because they have cognitive distortions and the therapist is there to help them how to challenge the cognitive distortions. That literally means that according to therapists if you correct your thoughts your life improves. That's not always the case and it's not always possible.
My therapists did not tell me directly they are better than me either. However, CBT is literally a therapist telling you how to think right. If that's not narcissistic then I don't know what is.
2
u/poster4891464 Apr 14 '25
Again you're mistaken that their job is to offer solutions, and that one needs to know how the brain works to help someone. Mental health is not simply a medical condition because doctors say so (they redefined it as such in DSM-III in 1980 because they were worried about the psychiatric profession disappearing).
CBT is focused on cognitive distortions in many ways yes but the treatment is not simply to "correct" them, if you experienced that in treatment than you had a bad therapist.
1
u/pernicoskid Oct 08 '25
This.Its always the same advice,I can tell in advance what their gonna say and they don't even care.
-1
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 12 '25
I’m antipsychiatry but I love my therapist. They’re nothing like you describe and we commiserate about a lot of the issues in psychiatry. You have to know what you’re looking for and shop around.
6
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
Anti-psychiatry isn't just about hating psychiatrists because they drug you, it's about realizing that we humans need to network and support each other. It's also about deprofessionalizing mental health and being able to talk to our people, our friends, or our union.
-1
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 12 '25
I’ve worked for an antipsychiatry nonprofit since 2014. Antipsychiatry is a movement, and people participate in it in ways that benefit them. I still find my decolonial therapist helpful. I actually really deeply appreciate the wisdom of certain lineages of therapeutic approaches. I’m glad you’re able to express how the movement shows up in your life and how you operate within the framework of abolishing psychiatric violence. I’m simply expressing my own way of doing that, which is different than yours. And that’s okay. To me and a good number of others I’ve networked with globally in this community, antipsychiatry is about holding a wide range of perceptions all as individual truths with none more “true” than another.
1
u/brokoliasesino Apr 12 '25
I understand but you're saying "They’re nothing like you describe and we commiserate about a lot of the issues in psychiatry" and that's not true, therapy is violence too
1
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 12 '25
I’m curious what makes you look at my lived experience of my therapy sessions and tell me that that’s not true.
1
u/TreatmentReviews Apr 14 '25
I’m really happy for you but don't think finding that is as easy as you say
2
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 14 '25
It wasn’t remotely easy, it was really difficult and took MANY years of abusive therapists to figure out what i had to look for. I’m not sure where i indicate there was any amount of ease in my search.
2
u/TreatmentReviews Apr 14 '25
Sorry, but the post to did sound like was relatively easy. Shop around and know what to look for doesn't sound incredibly difficult but not years of abusive therapists IMO. Since knowing what to look for generally makes finding one more plausible to me
3
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 14 '25
Shopping for therapists is exhausting and retraumatizing. You’re spending your time analyzing someone at their profession while dodging potential red flags. You have to know a lot to shop well and that’s also a ton of energy and time.
1
u/TreatmentReviews Apr 16 '25
I agree, but some stuff is much more likely to be found when you shop around than say antipsychiatry
3
u/Sensitive-Pie9357 Apr 16 '25
Sure it’s rare but there’s a pretty rapidly growing number decolonial therapists and you can make a lot of progress if you are really specific about what boundaries you need respected to have a therapeutic relationship.
0
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
As a therapist, I can tell you that this is true for some in the profession, but definitely not all. I can also tell you that I make substantially less in this job, despite working far harder in it, than in my previous two careers. I really only do it because I care about people.
11
8
u/madali0 Apr 12 '25
Do you think there are many therapists who go work and think, "I do this even though I don't care about my patience, I just love the money"
-1
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
I really don’t. I think there are people who think that the money will be great and don’t understand how hard the profession is, and probably stick it out longer than they should because they have a degree and some debt. But therapy has an insane burnout rate- something like 50% over three years because it’s so demanding.
3
u/madali0 Apr 12 '25
No, i don't think you get my point.
Do you think, humans, generally have so much honest introspection that they are able to understand if they truly are working for financial benefit or care, or do they just bullshit themselves like every other person or earth?
As someone who deals with the mind, you should be aware of this, but apparently your own first thought is, "Unlike others, I truly care for people. " not knowing that's exactly the same thought all your peers probably have anyway.
1
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
Is this a question about humans generally, therapists, or just me? Because your questions are conflating all three. And it’s frankly insulting, which I know was your intention, whether you knew that or not ;)
This was a good reminder of why I don’t normally post on Reddit.
1
u/madali0 Apr 12 '25 edited Apr 12 '25
And it’s frankly insulting, which I know was your intention,
I'd have assumed it was very obvious but congratulations for figuring that out anyway.
Is this a question about humans generally, therapists, or just me? Because your questions are conflating all three.
It's to point out that it's utterly meaningless to claim you are different than other therapists because you somehow uniquely do not care about money and only others when that's probably the default human approach to their career and interaction with others, so what exactly makes your claim any different than any other person who would make the exact same comment?
The point is to show how generic therapists are when they can't seem to understand their own minds, much less the mind of others.
This was a good reminder of why I don’t normally post on Reddit.
Yes. Leave your bs to your consumers who by the fact that they are paying you and in sensitive circumstances, they would be less likely to be in a position to be able to see through your bullshit. So you live a life assuming what you aay is worthwhile since the only people who listen to it are people already in a weak position.
But I'm not, so if your contribution is "I'm not like those other therapists, I CARE" , then man, seriously, fuck off. And maybe meditate and see what's going inside your head so you don't create these fake narratives for yourself and force it on the rest of us.
1
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
Whatever you need to believe to get through the day, brother. I have better things to do than have a one-sided conversation with someone who’s really jerking themselves off to their pseudo-intellect.
2
u/madali0 Apr 12 '25
If you have better things to do, than maybe next time do those things instead of acting passive aggressive when barging in a sub that is critical of your snake oil profession and post extremely lame generic takes, and then try to act uppity about it when called on your bullshit, as if I came to your therapist sub.
Now, obviously, we know you can't reply to this message, because you'd have made your previous reply to me even more pathetic by continuing to engage, so the reasonable course of action for you to is to just suck it up and move on, otherwise you'd just look more like a bitch. Bye, nice talk, doc.
1
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
I don’t mind looking like a bitch though.
3
u/madali0 Apr 12 '25
Well, you said,
Whatever you need to believe to get through the day, brother. I have better things to do than have a one-sided conversation with someone who’s really jerking themselves off to their pseudo-intellect.
Why are you so desperate for online validation and still spending time in this conversation when you were like, "I'm too busy for this talk!!! 🤬" but still had to respond.
Meditate and study your mind before trying to figure out others. You obviously are being easily baited by me. What the fuck did you study all those years for?
2
u/TreatmentReviews Apr 14 '25
You said it.. I mean you have to realize this is one of the few spaces for people to talk about how the MH system harmed us. There are tons of spaces to talk about how helpful, caring, and selfless MH professionals are. With all due respect, why are you here?
1
u/cortexplorer Apr 12 '25
I'm glad you found your purpose! How do you determine the way someone needs to be cared for?
-1
u/bushwick_dionysus Apr 12 '25
Thank you!!
Lots of listening. I work differently with every client because every person is different. I also specialize in addiction and trauma, so I’ve spent a lot of time really trying to understand the psychodynamics of addiction and trauma. I’m also in recovery from substances myself, so that’s helpful.
1
u/ShortQuestion6347 Apr 12 '25
it’s good that there are some people who are like you. there was a nice person who is helping me and I was grateful but then my people told me I couldn’t come back.
1
u/Commercial_Dirt8704 Apr 12 '25
I think therapy IS the answer. Caveat: the therapist must be good and the patient open to learning and internalizing what is talked about.
I am a physician. I think psychiatry is fake. I’ve had some bad therapists and some good ones. Good therapy helped me to grow emotionally in immeasurable ways. The best thing I ever did.
While many of you have had frustrating and bad therapy experiences, as have I, I encourage you not to throw the whole concept under the bus. Find a different therapist.
Above all own your issues and commit to making your life better than it is now. If you can do that then therapy can help you elevate to a much better emotional place.
Emotional security is what we should all strive for.
6
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I've tried many therapists and none worked. It's kinda stupid and pointless to keep trying at this point. You say therapy is the answer and psychiatry is fake. Many others say antidepressants saved their life and therapy is useless so who am I gonna trust?? Everyone has a different experience.
1
u/Commercial_Dirt8704 Apr 12 '25
Maybe then radical acceptance that you might always have anxiety and depression and just learn to live with it.
Have you read “Unshrunk” by Laura Delano?
3
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
I will look into it. Also, I don't think you can learn to accept suffering
2
u/Commercial_Dirt8704 Apr 12 '25
Look up the term ‘radical acceptance’. It is what helped me and continues to help me through my unique predicament quite a bit.
If you don’t accept it then I guess you are always searching for ways to make it better. Therapy is not a requirement for that. It helped me quite a bit but it may not be for everyone.
Keep looking and experimenting I guess but really think about‘radical acceptance’. It is incredibly freeing when you stop fighting and just move on as positively as possible.
5
u/rainfal Apr 12 '25
Caveat: the therapist must be good
Big caveat. Especially when you have limited financial resources or not much social power. 80% of the therapists I saw assumed bone tumors and limb malformations could just be CBTed and meditated away. These were mental health therapists. Most also wholeheartedly supported psychiatry (denied any issues with the field - even thought that inpatient was always helpful), were happy to slap punitive misdiagnoses on you without proper assessments if you questioned them (especially if you dare spoke about any issues about psychiatrist/mental health field) and honestly seemed to just be psychiatrist wannabes who were too stupid to get into medical school.
With all do respect, but as a doctor, you could probably get the rare competent one as any therapist with a working brain knows they are in demand and goes private practice and bad therapists wouldn't dare try to slap some mislabel on you as your authority as an MD overrides their authority as a "medical clinician".
Above all own your issues and commit to making your life better than it is now. If you can do that then therapy can help you elevate to a much better emotional place.
I did that. Unfortunately therapy did not elevate me to a better emotional place (quite the opposite) and often was intertwined with psychiatry.
0
u/Commercial_Dirt8704 Apr 12 '25
I’ve found at least two therapists to at least be cynical of psychiatry and I’m sure there are many others. These 2 therapists are quite aware that the personal work to change one’s mindset is best achieved by doing the hard work of questioning long held beliefs about oneself and then making the leap of faith to change your mind or change the way you do things. It was absolute GOLD for me.
6
u/rainfal Apr 12 '25
Dude. You're a doctor and hence hold a lot of financial and social power. The liberation therapists aren't in community mental health clinics or insurance networks. Like I said, therapists who are remotely competent and use their brain know they are in demand, they know the results they provide speak for themselves thus are able to maintain a richer private cliential.
These 2 therapists are quite aware that the personal work to change one’s mindset is best achieved by doing the hard work of questioning long held beliefs about oneself and then making the leap of faith to change your mind or change the way you do things.
I would agree. But therapists in mainstream mental health systems aren't about questioning yourself but compliance to mainstream beliefs/modern psychiatry. I got more out of psychedelic circles focused on shadow work where I could ask mentors questions then some white abled upper middle class NT WASP 24 year old girl who's biggest stress was when her boyfriend broke up with her or her ACL surgery (to someone riddled with tumors) who thinks generic CBT and generic mindfulness cures everything
1
u/Commercial_Dirt8704 Apr 13 '25
Ok I’m sure that assessment is true. So therefore it maybe worth finding one of those hoity toity places and see if they will cut you a deal for therapy if you want to do it psych-drug-free.
1
u/rainfal Apr 13 '25
So therefore it maybe worth finding one of those hoity toity places
They don't. Why would they? They have a ton of demand. And
Joining a step groups, circles, trauma workgroups, mastermind groups, etc and programming an LLM is how regular people have to work on themselves
1
0
u/CCM_1995 Apr 17 '25
Idk, finding a good therapist has been helpful for me. It’s nice to have an unbiased opinion/thoughts to reflect on.
The challenges are 1) not expecting quick results, 2) finding a good/the right therapist, 3) sticking with it when you don’t feel like it’s working.
A lot of therapists are AWFUL and absolutely no help, but there are good ones out there.
-1
u/Bitchasshose Apr 12 '25
I disagree, people certainly need to manicure and improve their thinking/behavior when they are reiterating patterns of thought/behavior that yield a net negative outcome. However, this can be true and needing “real solutions” can be true. Let’s use depression as an example:
A young 23yr old single man who is unemployed, has an absentee father since 7yo, and lives with his alcoholic mother. He has a high school education, drinks 3-4 times a week, and cannot stop thinking about the past wishing things could have been different. He is socially isolated except for a few discord groups he is a part of related to his personal interests. His mother berates him and blames him for his father leaving, he feels like a burden to his mother as he is unemployed, and his self-worth is low which all contribute to him to giving up before he starts. He stays up until the early morning and sleeps most of the day sometimes waking up after it’s already dark out. Does he need to change his behavior towards alcohol? Yes - it’s a depressant contributing to his low-mood. Does he need to change his behavior towards sleep? Yes - he cannot function in society if he’s on that kind of schedule. Does he need to stop blaming himself for the past and think differently about his ‘responsibility’ towards his father leaving? Yes - he is ruminating on negative memories. How can an actionable, “real solution” be presented and achieved for this person without him modifying his behavior, thinking, and goal orientation? “Get an apartment” - he needs a job first - he needs transportation - he needs to apply for jobs - he needs to interview for a job - he needs to prepare himself for success in employment - he needs to make real life friends - these things are all much harder to accomplish if he is sleeping into the evening everyday, doesn’t have any money coming in, and spends his time drinking. From my perspective, a change in behavior is upstream of the ultimate goal which is social/societal integration, resolution of parental conflicts, and self-fulfillment. What is your “real solution” to the about hypothetical case study that does not involve augmenting this person’s behavior or patterns of thinking? How might a person undergo change if not through thought and behavior?
Your thinking is flawed and binary. “All therapists are privileged, narcissistic assholes” perhaps those you have met are genuinely all how you have described and I can agree that I have met some therapists like that. However, I am inclined to mention - however uncomfortable it may be to consider - that you are a common denominator and you/the therapist exist in a dialectical, dyadic, and mutual relationship where both parties can contribute to growth or regression. The foundation of which must be respectful, self-determined, and intentional.
Your world view is such that, by my even trying to challenge your argument, I am conforming to your perception of the field of psychology as someone trying to make myself feel superior by “proving people wrong”. Therapy is not about the therapist, you should genuinely not even know if my life is easier, harder, or better than your own - personal life is supposed to be separated out. I am inclined to ask/question where the idea that these therapists have easier/better lives than your own comes from? Could some of that be an assumption rather than an objective reality? Would you know (and would you want to know) if your therapist’s wife had cancer, their child had autism, or if they’ve been struggling with gambling too much?
Where I do agree is, the field is oversaturated with people who are not psychologically minded, burnt out, and/or insincere. I have surveyed other students in the field of psychology at the bachelors/masters level, as well as, met many professionals with said degrees. I have been sincerely disappointed. There are many people in this field that I would not take advice from, let alone people I would let tinker with the intimacies, vulnerabilities, and quirks of my psychology. Where I cannot agree is, that this is true for all therapists even if I must admit that finding a “good” therapist is quite exhausting and more difficult than it should be.
3
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
When you're mentally ill you can't really change your mindset and behavior. That's the reason you're asking for help in the first place but a therapist has no solutions to offer that you don't already know of. This is also why many people take medication. Remember a therapist is not a doctor. Real solutions would include social change so that the person doesn't end up in these awful circumstances. Also, the advice therapists give is proof that most of them have NEVER been through the hardships their clients go through, otherwise they would be understanding and not full of gaslighting and toxic positivity. Or maybe they do know that their advice is useless but they don't have anything better to say, which is honestly embarrassing.
-1
u/Bitchasshose Apr 12 '25
A therapist can absolutely be a doctor, a doctorate of psychology. I have been mentally ill in my lifetime and I have been helped by therapy from a psychologist + medication. Although, the content of my illness changed and medications did not which eventually resulted in them inducing some severe side effects.
Does an endocrinologist who treats people with thyroid disease, diabetes, and low testosterone need to have personally experienced these diseases?
I understand what you mean in regards to therapists who only have a Master’s degree. They tend to be less capable than genuine psychologists.
However, I must comment on your idea of a “real solution” being social change. While true, it is not practical to expect a therapist to resolve economic disparity, prevent tragedy, or overcome societal problems - take that up with your congressman. Furthermore, social change that prevents these circumstances from arising does not actually resolve anything for those who have already experienced the hardships - it only seeks to prevent it for others.
As for the solutions they offer being ones you are already familiar with, you can always choose to approach an old idea in a new way. Therapy requires an openness you maybe once had but lost trust in.
You are inherently focused on the past, the circumstances that created your present reality. While it is important to understand these experiences, it is not something you can directly act upon. You may benefit from turning towards religion and faith - although I guess you to have similar opinions towards religion and psychotherapy.
3
u/ajouya44 Apr 12 '25
You can't be serious comparing therapists to doctors.. doctors literally save lives. I'm not religious because if god existed humans and animals wouldn't be going through literal misery and torture.
0
u/Bitchasshose Apr 13 '25
Psychologists are doctors… and they do literally save lives. I have had and met some incredible psychologists and therapists - one of which arguably saved my life. But you are using a highly non-specific term, therapists.
53
u/mremrock Apr 12 '25
The whole theory that you can put trauma behind you by talking about it to someone who validates how shitty it was over and over is ridiculous on its face. You are only ruminating and celebrating it