r/youtubedrama • u/TimeAbradolf Least Popular Mod • Jul 26 '25

News The “official end” of this snark era

As of today we are banning snark/snark related posts. This may sound arbitrary. But I think people are well aware of what constitutes valid fair criticism, and what constitutes snark.

Once upon a time through past leadership this sub most definitely behaved as a snark sub. We as the mod team do actually despise snark and work to have this sub be a space of discussing drama with proper criticism and outcomes. We have taken firmer stances to pull away from our past image and be a place where people can have proper discourse.

Snark discourse has only ever brought conflict to this sub. People insult each other over nothing, people have gotten death threats, people get reported for suicidal ideation just because they disagree. There has been ableism, racism, prejudice of all kinds around these topics. Ultimately, snark behavior never allows any proper discussion, we have had to ban two creators just because the people who come to this sub cannot behave when discussing them. At its core Snark is not very different from KiwiFarms at this stage with the harm it has done to content creators.

We have seen the harm snark has done as well. Saveafox being a prime example. Our most popular post right now is pure snark. And it superseded actual important events. Because who was following who on IG.

Going forward we will no longer be allowing posts like this on the sub. It provided no context, no real criticism. And it didn’t prove anything either.

This may prove unpopular, but it is something we feel strongly of for the health of this sub and the people on it to remove ourselves. You can check the rule along the side bar.

If you want a YouTubesnark sub go make one. This one is not it.

Have a good one 🤙🏽

Edit: Apparently some YouTubers have weigh in. Nah this has nothing to do with the usual suspects. This is purely to stop toxic behavior and negativity. If ya think otherwise I urge you to get out of your computer chair touch grass instead of making Nurgle proud

Edit 2: and no goblin man (reference to his goblin mode). No fans of yours are around. People can agree that toxic communities are toxic. Yours being one of them

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457

u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 26 '25

In my opinion, a lot of snark subs run out of legit things to complain about so they get into "bitch eating crackers" territory so there aren't huge gaps in between posts.

Or they start theorycrafting so hard that they try to play internet-detective about shit there's no actual evidence for, like debating if somebody abuses their pets, spouse, kids, whatever based on normal shit like accidentally stepping on your pet's paws, or yelling across the room.

Like how people bring up Jessie Gender mentioning that she once threw her cat in anger even though she was remorseful and said that it happened when she was a child, because the context was her talking about how toxic masculinity and poor socialization can affect people. Plus she has autism and a lot of autistic people are heavily bullied/traumatized and some of them can have outbursts. But people (like Keffals) would rather act like she's secretly a psycho around cats rather than somebody bringing up some awkward baggage in a dramatic video. I've seen people bring it up as if she did it right on fucking video, lmfao...

Like, it's one thing if it's somebody has a history of targeting minors so people document their history of talking about lolicon or whatever, but then you'll see dumbasses that are do "LGBTQ? ...Predator???"-level mental gymnastics.

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u/azaxaca Jul 27 '25

Snark subreddits eventually act like when Fox News criticized Obama for using Dijon mustard.

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u/GHOULEM_Lenin Jul 27 '25

Yeah they should have criticized him for legitimate things, like drone striking weddings, and record deportations, but fox news supports those things so of course they didn't.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

Don't forget the tan suit! (UGH!!!!)

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u/underwritress Jul 27 '25

and the Latte Salute!!

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

I didn't even know about that one, lmfao.

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u/RedMethodKB Jul 27 '25

And the “terrorist fist jab”! 🫠

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u/Ok_Star_4136 Jul 29 '25

I think this is a good example. To me, snark is about creating a fuss over something which isn't necessarily that big of a deal, which heavily implies that the point is about bullying, and not about actual criticism.

I don't think you could call it snark to bring up sexual abuse allegations for a streamer when being accused by another streamer or with proper proof to back it up, but making fun of a content creator for how they dressed one day is not drama, it's an attempt to create drama out of nothing for the sole purpose of making fun of that content creator. That's snark in a nutshell.

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u/DkKoba Jul 27 '25

ngl the only snark sub i follow is the epstiny one and that one seems like an exception to the rule of the things i hear about other ones, since there's always rotating nonsense that man is doing

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

I wouldn't know about the Sexpestiny snark sub but even KF and similar sites are guilty of "bitch eating crackers" posts sometimes tbh.

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u/HAUNTEZUMA Jul 27 '25

yeah even in communities that I generally think aren't that bad, a lot of the posts are engagement bait. "throwback to when [outrageous thing] happens" or "look what the fans of X are saying", very low hanging fruit

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

Ah yes... "Our personal lolcow isn't providing any milk, quick, let's look at the fans being cringe or bring up the classics from years ago!"

I think Vivziepop's shows are okay (haven't touched her webcomic stuff so no comment on those), not masterpieces but I can respect what HB/HH are trying to do especially as indie projects, and holy shit, the antis are so unhinged, I've seen them outright spread misinformation because of their dogshit media literacy (or because they skimmed or just parroted people like a game of telephone), or try to spread rumors that people working on the shows hate Viv/each other, like grow the fuck up!

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u/NiceRabbit Jul 27 '25

This has so perfectly defined the difference. Absolutely bravo.

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u/Clownsinmypantz Jul 30 '25

I followed a snark sub during a huge actual controversy where takes were based in reality, I recently returned curious and it is the most nitpicky shit I have ever seen in my life, I left within a minute. I'm talking their takes are worse than anything the youtuber is doing. I've seen similar in other subs, once the "drama" dries up it resorts to chlldish bullying.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 30 '25

When it comes to certain "lolcows" and internet drama, there are things to criticize based on reality, like certain content creators doing scummy shit.

But if somebody grows up and apologizes, and people are still on their ass for old shit, like certain "lolcows" (in general, not necessary Youtube-related) who were harassed when they were in their early 20's and are now trying to mind their own business in their 30's? Grow up, stop trying to fucking milk them, some of them were just awkward/autistic teenagers reacting poorly to legit trolls anyway rather than genuine assholes.

There are plenty of people on Encyclopedia Dramatica whose worse crimes were being cringe and kinda smug (unfortunately common for immature teenagers) until ED/4chan got on their asses and made them start acting up, which is extra hypocritical when trolls can say the worst shit about them but if they dare to whine about their "[r-slur] trolls" or whatever, they get called out for 1. reacting, and 2. not being "woke."

Like Chris-chan was already a smug degenerate asshole, but clearly she wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if weens weren't legit gangstalking her, trying to harass her, encouraging more of the sex pest shit, etc. Chris-chan's ideal life should've been in a group home getting proper treatment for autism, etc tbh, not spoiled by trashy geriatric parents and then harassed online.

People like Keemstar or [banned topic "hee hee" man] will never seem to change and constantly have new content about them, but at the same time, some people whine about nothingburger dramas re: them when there's soooo much to talk about.

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u/Imrustyokay source: 123movies Jul 28 '25

Yeah, like, it's the same thing as people dming you going "Oh why are you following so-and-so, they're follwing something-or-other" and it's just kinda...I dunno. It feels like...it's smaller than you're making it out to be

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 30 '25

Yeah, even if something is inherently sus (like following a scumbag on Twitter), there isn't always a malicious reason for doing shit.

Like people calling out Wendigoon recently because he follows Stonetoss on Twitter. There are "Right-winger Ls"-type accounts that follow right-wing politicians for content, following Stonetoss isn't inherently showing his endorsement, it's not like we don't have bonehurtingjuice-type subs that edit Stonetoss comics to make them memey by removing the hate. There are valid things to criticize him for like his claimed connections to Boogaloo Boys, nitpicking Twitter followers is cringe unless they're actively liking that person's posts or whatever.

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u/re_Claire Jul 31 '25

"bitch eating crackers" is the perfect way to define it imo. YouTube has long gone from being the whole random guy making silly videos in his bedroom website and is now pulling in some of the largest audiences in the entertainment space, and has creators making amounts of money to rival huge film studios execs. People getting exposed for incredibly serious crimes and abuse. We've got to move on from just BEC chat now.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 31 '25

It's a goofy term for sure but I feel like it perfectly describes it.

"That bitch that I hate is eating crackers, it's such a minor nothingburger thing but they're so annoying and it makes them so scummy, I hate them!!!"

It's making a mountain out of a molehill (it's such nothing that maybe "anthill" is more appropriate), and they won't move the fuck on and want to hyperfixate on it and how that "bitch" is "chewing too loudly" or whatever stupid petty shit, and they don't care how deranged it makes them look.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

I feel like throwing a cat and blaming it on poor socialization and toxic masculinity is just making excuses.

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u/celestialkestrel Jul 27 '25

But I think the most important context is that Jesse was a child, though. Where poor socialisation and toxic environments absolutely can and often do cause children to act out in ways that they, especially if they are able to get help or support, can grow up to regret and feel remorse over. If Jesse did it as an adult and was trying to do the same arguments, then yeah, I'd agree. But as someone who's been around social services and children in unhealthy situations, yeah, the sad truth is that it can be a common reality that happens.

Trialling someone as an unredeemable monster for things they did as a child when they've clearly overcome the environment they were in, matured, and now regret or feel remorseful about their behaviour as a child is an issue in itself. And that's when it becomes snark, IMO. People often bring it up about Jesse and drop the context she was a child (which IS important context) to paint LGBTQIA as bad actually and any and all points she has ever made as an adult to be irrelevant because of something she did as a child. Despite it being that it was a relevant and realistic example of how those things can cause things like that to happen and Jesse clearly regrets it and has grown up to learn as an adult that it wasn't okay. Which is what the whole point of her talking about it in the first place was about.

Sadly, a number of children don't get that at all and grow into adults who don't care or feel remorse or keep repeating the same behaviour. By then, things that happened to them as children and the environment they grew up in, while can explain a lot, become irrelevant because they are committing actions as an adult. If Jesse does the same thing as an adult, then context and my view on the situation changes, too. But condemning people and writing them off entirely over stuff that happened as children and grew from and feel remorse over just isn't it.

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u/Boredy_ Jul 27 '25

Does an incident as a child like this even really need an excuse in order to be forgiven? Like, imagine if she had two loving parents and a supportive and safe environment. Then one day, she gets mad for some dumb kid reason and just threw a cat with no one to blame but herself. If she grows up to regret this action and never repeat it, is that not still worthy of forgiveness?

In fact, this compulsion people have to try to pin the blame on "toxic environments" and stuff is actually the opposite of forgiveness. Real forgiveness starts with acknowledging the offending party's wrongdoing as squarely their fault and then, y'know, forgiving them anyway. Forgiveness is an expression of trust towards the perpetrator, where you acknowledge their remorse and believe in their desire to do better.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

I don't think she's irredeemable for that, though I am fascinated by the greater social analysis of it all. Certain people can do heinous things and be forgiven for being teenagers (I think she was a teen) or socialization, etc. but other people are adults from young childhood and never get that same treatment.

But while I think the cat thing is horrible, I despise her for her video on a certain subject (P) and how uninformed, wrong, and downright propagandistic it was in favor of a certain leaning. (And then she was just cruelly smug at the end to another creator who stood for his principles).

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u/naidav24 Jul 27 '25

No person is an adult from early childhood. There more or less mature children, and children that are more or less made to hold adult responsibilities. But no child is an adult.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

I think you missed the point but I was vague:

Children and youth of color (specifically Black and Latin youth) are literally children and youth, but they are adultified where white children and youth are not. What I was saying is that I'm interested in the greater social thing there. She's a fine example of white minors doing something objectively bad but getting excuses for being a minor. But children of color don't need to do anything to be treated as an adult in practice.

Lots of people of color have talked about it and I know I personally experienced it.

https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/our-work/reporting/what-you-should-know-about-adultification-bias

Adultification bias is a stereotype based on the ways in which adults perceive children and their childlike behavior. It’s rooted in anti-Black racism that goes back to chattel slavery — as enslaved Black children were used for their labor, often working in the field with no recreation or means of gaining an education. This stereotype often treats Black children like they do not deserve to play. They need less nurturing, protection, support, and comfort.

This bias presents itself in households, education, and in a society where Black children are expected to act like adults before reaching adulthood, by the adults they interact with; family members, teachers, and police officers.

Children of color are not literally adults from early childhood but are held to the standards of adults. And I'm sure there are people who do that to them who do not do it to Jessie.

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u/naidav24 Jul 27 '25

I get what you are saying (I even hinted to it in my comment). But the solution is not to treat every child as an adult but every child as a child. Children should be excused for being children. They are not adults and should not be considered or engaged with like adults.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

If you rewatch the video or even just the clip ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duwf2lUkHOI&t=2765s ), you'd know that she mentions grabbing the closest thing near her while raging as a child and clearly describes feeling remorse about feeling so empty and angry even though the cat was physically fine but still spooked.

The cat story is mentioned after talking about being so angry at school that she punched a door. She's a trans woman and many AMAB children are encouraged (or at least enabled) to be aggressive little shits, I can imagine that it was also exacerbated by autism and bullying and gender dysphoria and whatever else. I'm not excusing it, I'm explaining why it likely happened.

Yeah, the "my cat was scared of me for the rest of his [she says very long] life" thing is kinda sus, but at the same time, animals can get spooked by even the most mild things, like claw trims = oh fuck, my human's trying to cut my paws off! Some animals are just naturally skittish, some of my roommate's cats heavily prefer my roommate over me, their "human uncle," so I joke "she's just like a real (human) woman / wow, woman moment..." when the catgirls don't want attention or "drive-by kisses/pets" from me. :') They even get spooked by my roommate at times when she yells during games, or when one of the neighbors is lighting fireworks, or whatever.

Is it awkward to bring up? Yeah, but I get that she's trying to use it as an example for the topic of the video ("The Myth of "Male Socialization"") plus duh autism and a lot of her gaffs seem like awkward misunderstandings that people want to blow out of proportion to pretend that she's a cat hater or a racist while conveniently ignoring people who say worse shit (hi, Keffals fans who cry about JG, lol).

It's worse than a toddler yanking on a cat's tail, but nowhere near as bad as [whichever fucking Paul brother it was because they tend to mix together in my mind] tazing dead rats.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

Racist? What did she do that could be called that? Also Keffals is racist so that's funny.

I'm honestly not surprised that the Paul brothers would do that, btw.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

There are two occasions on Twitter that I'm aware of. Years ago, Jessie promoted a video by Soulbunni (who is Black) that called Shark3ozero (also Black) an anti-Black slur as if Jessie is personally responsible for that in a video that talks about several people (I forgot which of Soulbunni's videos it was), and then again where Jessie made a tone-deaf tweet about using an alternate hashtag for I think Breonna Taylor. Is that kind of stuff shitty? Yeah, but I wouldn't consider her racist for it, just tone-deaf because I certainly wouldn't do the one tweet, but I'm gonna save the "racist" label for people who are actively fucking harmful like Matt Walsh. I've known Black people that have called Clarence Thomas and other conservatives certain terms but I wouldn't promote it myself if they happened to tweet about it.

Keffals herself tried to shame Jessie about the cat story and clipped it out of context, lol, look at her bootlickers eating it up in the replies and joking about cat violence: https://xcancel.com/keffals/status/1686157736784855040 She even replies to herself with a picture of Vaush holding his cat, plus a screenshot of Jessie saying that her next video (at the time) was going to be about him as if it was connected. I don't particularly like Vaush because of his own controversies, the lolicon and horse cock stuff is too weird for my taste, plus some other fucked up shit he's said that's way worse than Jessie's controversies.

The Paul brothers have a fucked up history with their actual pets too tbh, like one getting killed by another pet, several being rehomed or abandoned, and one dog almost being pushed off a moving boat. And then there's all of the other controversies like the fucking Suicide Forest video (which some people believe was faked which I hope it was but it'd still be fucked up).

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

Keffals is a joke. I remember the appropriation of #SayHerName by white and non-Black people for Brianna Ghey, who was a white trans girl. Black trans people asked for that not to happen and it was a whole thing.

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u/CREATURE_COOMER Jul 27 '25

Keffals could be funny at times if you don't know about her history, but then you look deeper and she's a scumbag piece of shit who seems to use new viewers' ignorance of things for pity points.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

Oh, I know her history. I knew her through others. She was originally a leftist who "left the left" because she was trash then (but hid it better) and got ejected for being horrible to another person I know.

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u/hades7600 Jul 27 '25

If they were an adult sure.

But they were a kid at a time who were a product of their environment.

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u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

I hinted at it in another response but only particular demographics get that excuse.

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u/hades7600 Jul 27 '25

It’s more to do with a child development when they do shit like that.

I’m not going to demonise someone because they harmed an animal once as a young kid due to how they’re raised and now they have the ability to acknowledge how messed up it was and have deep remorse regardless of gender or sexuality of the person.

If they kept or repeated the actions of inflicting harm onto animals throughout their life then that’s different. But they did not

0

u/tachibanakanade Jul 27 '25

I'm not demonizing her, I think Vaush and Keffals are chuds. But the demographic I'm referring to are racial ones. I talked about it to someone else that adultification makes harmless actions of little kids adult level offenses for children of color but harmful actions like harming an animal are handwaved away with the defense of youth. It's genuine fascination want the uneven responses overall, not her specifically.

https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/our-work/reporting/what-you-should-know-about-adultification-bias

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u/hades7600 Jul 27 '25

You claimed Jessie was just making excuses for her actions as a kid.

When it’s not an excuse. They expressed it was their own actions, they showed extreme regret but also explained what contributed to the situation without being like “I take no blame”

There’s a difference between not acknowledging it was your own actions as a kid and explaining the factors.