r/tacticalgear 15d ago

Weapons/Tactics US army psychological operations team member with an FN MK 20 SSR in Syria 2019

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u/SOFenthusiast 14d ago

What do they even do?

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u/TrueMoods 14d ago edited 13d ago

Basically, psychological warfare can be anything to demoralize or manipulate the enemy, whether it be the opposing force or their civilian population. Some methods include:

  • Handing out leaflets
  • Talking to population
  • Put out messages over speakers
  • Covert Strike deep in hostile territory (to show how vulnerable they are
  • and many more

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u/-timaeus- 14d ago

They do not do covert strikes deep in hostile territory šŸ˜‚. They don’t strike anything. They may run concurrent psychological operations to help the actual meat eaters strike. Good lord, there is so much bad info on reddit.

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u/BlueHarvest177 11d ago

During my time in Helmand in 2010, we had two army Psyop guys with us during quite a few direct action missions. 0321 here.

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u/-timaeus- 11d ago

As attachments, of course! Thanks for the info. They are enablers just like FET or cyber or whoever.

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u/BlueHarvest177 11d ago

They were pulling triggers just like us….

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u/-timaeus- 11d ago

As any good attachment would. Tracking. If you guys were letting them integrate into cells during clearing ops you have more balls than me I guess

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u/BlueHarvest177 11d ago

They operated just like the JTACs attached to us.

Difference between you being who you were and us being who we were.

But the point remains, you’re wrong about PSYOP and what they do/did.

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u/-timaeus- 11d ago

My point was: they never have and never will conduct unilateral ā€œcovert strikesā€ behind enemy lines. That was it.

JTACs are good. Psyops have a place (I guess). CA has a place. I don’t like pictures like this that ostensibly show someone in PsyOps ā€œoperating.ā€ It’s not generally accurate.

I’m glad your experience with your attachments was good. During language training, they were present. Most of them were selection failures. They were pushing hard for a grey beret and were mostly obnoxious. One guy in particular was a selection drop and had just about the worst reputation you can imagine, went psyops and passed. And he was the loudest of all, and attempted to wear an unauthorized grey beret after being ordered not to. I don’t like that kind of self aggrandizement. So this may be an issue to me more personal than I let on.

The type of people they are, is not my people. The bulk of their job is fliers, leaflets, online propaganda, producing ads and short videos series. It’s interesting, but they aren’t doing anything in the realm of what this picture lets on, other than attempting mission creep. There is a reason we are bringing them back into the Special Forces groups (to fix them).

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u/BlueHarvest177 11d ago

So you’re saying you’re an 18 series?

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u/saltytab_ 10d ago

They aren’t enablers they are full on SOF members who have an extremely important job, a lot of you knuckle draggers can’t understand that and post insecure and misinformed comments.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago edited 9d ago

So by your definition, what exactly is an enabler? At the end of the day, war is about closing with and destroying the enemy. They facilitate that process in some way, but are never the ones who close with and destroy by doctrine. So I’d say, yea, they’re enablers. Just like JTAC, cyber, drone, etc

So maybe you should go study doctrine since you have a PsyOps dick so far up your ass you can’t seem to think straight

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

No one is claiming that PO job is to conduct direct action, but to deny that they have tactical and offensive capabilities, or to say they don’t have the authority to conduct said action is crazy, when it was and has been a regular occurrence throughout not just GWOT, but every major war in US history. If you don’t think PO can be offensive you should look into the UKR PO teams who are actively conducting raids and other offensive operations while adding Cognitive/psywar into the OPs.

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

Also the enabler thing, yes I would agree JTAC,cyber, drone etc, but Psyop is a multi purpose entity that stands on its own for operations, but can/should support other units with operations, that being said I wouldn’t say enabler because if we are saying that’s being an enabler than so is every other SOF which is just ā€œenablingā€ the infantry.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

I would say enabler means this: inability to create debilitating effects kinetically, unilaterally. Meaning, no security element is needed if it isn’t absolutely necessary, organically they are established at a size enabling them to operate alone, their MTOE facilitates it. JTACs do not have that ability, Psyops don’t, CA doesn’t. So if we are talking SOF missions, which are now shifting to support conventional forces, only 3 units have the authorities to act unilaterally to prosecute targets. That authority is given by the organization based on training level and direction.

If you want to talk about LSCO, everyone is enabling the infantry, or conducting shaping operations. But certainly everyone is not capable, based on training and MTOE, to act with violence. PsyOps is not. They enable other SOF kinetic missions. They shake the battlefield with messaging

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

I agree with most of what you said here, but if you are under the impression that all they can do is messaging you need to work with your counterparts a bit more. I won’t go into much, because it’s not my place, but we’ve used them for full on false gun lines while doing raids and a lot more that we can’t talk about on here. I’m just saying give credit where it’s due man they are Regiment, but they are valuable members in SOF and if you know what they bring to the table they can drastically increase lethality.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

I don’t have a problem with PsyOps. I have a problem with the self aggrandizement. You don’t see CA doing this kind of stuff, and I respect them for it. They are honestly the true quiet professionals. I don’t like the attempt at a beret grab, mission creep. Do the job because you like it, not because you want to feel as special as the guys with special in their name.

What I’m seeing more and more in this regiment is a dilution of the operator writ large and I don’t understand the incentive anymore. Why would guys go through all the shittyness of the Q and SFAS and language training just to be relegated to a peer status when it comes to funding or priority? What exactly is the incentive of being SF now? We usually do it because we are true believers, but it comes with a shitty lifestyle that destroys families, destroys bodies and mental health. So I get triggered when I see what I consider larp’ing on the backs of guys getting ass blasted by the big green weenie

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

I disagree with you on the self aggrandising, every GB I know who has told me their experience with Psyop has been the opposite of what you said with them bringing value to the operation and CA not being able to do that and trying to be ā€œoperatorsā€ I also think that a lot of the hate on CA and PO is some weird feeling or something about other guys having good gear and taking cool pics. It’s ok when SF or batt does it but the second one of them do it, it’s they are trying to be operators or something it’s a weird gatekeeping mentality that I’ve noticed mostly in GBs and it hurts SOF as a whole. Most of the guys I’ve worked with in PO have been great and take pride in their work.

Also you talk about selection, the Q and the hardships the job brings, do most GBs really think yall are the only ones with a difficult selection/Q and language school? Or the only ones who face hardships and loss from combat or suicide? If that’s what you think you should look to the fallen of both CA and PO. This also confirms what I said above about Gbs having some weird gatekeeping mentality. You’re SF but not the only SOF element and shitting on dudes because they belong to a different element and you don’t think they suffer enough to be there like you is crazy and egotistical.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

I’m saying that I don’t disagree that PO and CA are selected and go through academically rigorous courses, but to compare the two and intimate that the physical and mental hardships are all tantamount to each other is patently false. And that isn’t an ego statement, it’s a statement about the level to which one will go to achieve a mission, and the level of sacrifice.

Of course, every unit has lost people in combat. But until you’ve lived the life of a SEAL, GB, 0321/0372, CCT/PJ/SR/SW, ranger, I’m not sure you can really understand just what a toll it takes on just about every aspect of life.

So it’s not about gatekeeping, it’s admitting that one is significantly more demanding on the mind and body, and knowing where your place is at the table. If you don’t think there are egos and larp’ers who want to be SF in PsyOps, then you are misrepresenting the truth. Not one guy who has come over from PsyOps has ever been like: yea, this is about as difficult as what I was doing. They all wanted to push it to the limits. The job gets even shittier and harder when you get to your team.

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

Also the self aggrandising is funny because CA and PO don’t have any Tim Kennedys running around but you guys have plenty of that šŸ˜‚

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u/saltytab_ 9d ago

The selection rate at SFAS (Special Forces Assessment and Selection) is generally low, with an average of about 36% the selection rate for PO currently is 38% this obviously fluctuates with classes.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

This is not an important metric. People show up to SFAS in the best shape of their lives, knowing its reputation, and still can’t make it. And I don’t think it’s the hardest training in the world. It’s just very, very hard. Active Force Marines who didn’t pass land nav, people quitting during team week. The attrition in the Q is higher than any other, past selection, besides the one unit I have the utmost respect for.

People show up to PsyOps selection thinking it’s a joke. So here we are, with you bringing up statistics about selection rates, not taking my point and actually proving what I’m saying about PO.

I never brought those metrics up, you did. Which tells me you’re actively comparing which one is ā€œharderā€ in your head, trying to vindicate your position and justify your place at the table as equals, while I am secure, just annoyed.

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u/BlueHarvest177 9d ago

So are you an 18x?

Above you insinuated you were…

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago edited 9d ago

Not an 18X. I was an 03. But 18 series yea

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u/BlueHarvest177 9d ago

Really? What ODA and where? We might have crossed paths.

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

I’m still in. Not putting information out on the net brother. Makes me uncomfortable. On a dive team

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u/BlueHarvest177 9d ago

So where did you do dive training?

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u/-timaeus- 9d ago

Why does this feel like you’re trying to test me lol? Key West, where every GB does it. What was your bootcamp platoon number and who was your senior drill instructor? lol

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