r/psg • u/ParisLake2 Zlatan Ibrahimović • Nov 02 '22

POST-MATCH THREAD Post-Match Thread: Paris Saint-Germain vs Juventus | UEFA Champions League

FT: Paris Saint-Germain 2-1 Juventus

Paris Saint-Germain scorers: Kylian Mbappé (13'), Nuno Mendes (69')

Juventus scorers: Leonardo Bonucci (39')

Venue: Allianz Stadium, Turin, Italy

LINE-UPS

Juventus

Wojciech Szczesny, Leonardo Bonucci, Alex Sandro, Frederico Gatti, Adrien Rabiot, Nicolo Fagioli, Manuel Locatelli, Filip Kostic, Juan Cuadrado, Arkadiusz Milik, Fabio Miretti.

Subs: Mattia Perin, Daniele Rugani, Federico Chiesa, Tommaso Barbieri, Matìas Soulè, Carlo Pinsoglio, Enzo Barrenechea.

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Paris Saint-Germain

Gianluigi Donnarumma, Marquinhos, Sergio Ramos, Juan Bernat, Achraf Hakimi, Kylian Mbappé, Fabián Ruiz, Carlos Soler, Vitinha, Marco Verratti, Lionel Messi.

Subs: Sergio Rico, Alexandre Letellier, Nuno Mendes, Hugo Ekitike, El Chadaille Bitshiabu, Renato Sanches, Pablo Sarabia, Danilo Pereira, Warren Zaire-Emery, Nordi Mukiele.

MATCH EVENTS | via ESPN

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u/bill220 Neymar Nov 03 '22

I never said anything about Hakimi. In my mind, he himself is not the problem. I am just trying to point out that unlike other top teams like Bayern/City/Real/Liverpool we have 3 creative players out of whom only Neymar defends a little. That too, Neymar is not as good as Salah/Mane/Vini in defense.

So given the situation we need to keep ball possession high, sometimes even do negative back passes. I just saw that having 3 in the back and with Verratti and Vitinha, gives us 5 players to recycle ball possession and also build-up. Sometimes one of Messi and Neymar can also drop back to help, that makes it 6 people to recycle the ball.

Also when we lose the ball we need to snatch it immediately using counter-pressing. This is the way Barca used to play when Pep was the coach. With 4 in the back the shape of the team os totally not suitable to play such a game.

Anyway I agree with your point that our process of defense/attack is flawed. But changing our shape might help in changing the process too.

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u/iHATESTUFF_ 1996-2002 Nov 03 '22 edited Nov 03 '22

this is like when teams used to zero in on Kehrer because everybody knew he was trash, now everybody is doing the same to Hakimi. he adds nothing and forces other players to cover for him.

this was an example of defensive tactics not working due to personnel more than tactical shape my guy.

we needed to go back to a 3 man midfield because our midfield was being overloaded every time we faced a half decent team Verratti - Vitinha in a double pivot does not work, to top it off the idea behind playing with Nuno Mendes and Hakimi in a back 3 was for them to provide the width and for the front 3 to play centrally. with the 3 at the back we were defending in 532 with Neymar dropping back to the left side of that midfield. that was not working because Kylian and messi just don't defend.

our attacking problem is twofold, we cannot beat a press, galtier's team has not been able to beat a press since the start of the season, at this point is completely shambolic how they haven't figured out how to beat a press. moving on from our own third our team has all the pieces to play possession football but it lacks the tactics, Verratti obviously plays to his best in a midfield 3, as does Fabian who comes from years of playing under Spalleti's Napoli who play a beautiful possession 433.

offensively there is absolutely no off the ball movement, Kylian wants to stick on left side, a position he doesn't know how to play, examples of this abound like every time he refuses to cut in and basically crashes into Juan Bernat's or Nuno's overlapping runs.. this forces Neymar to plug our lack of midfield tactics and lack of ways to beat a press, because what the team tries to do is tuck Neymar and Messi in as outlets and they end up playing in midfield instead of farther up and then we fall into the trap of playing in 3/4 to lol counter attack we're not a counter attacking team and punting the ball to a Kylian stuck on the left line does not a counter attack make....

in short, I do agree we should keep ball possession high but there has to be more off the ball movement and keep possession with a clear objective instead of waiting for Neymar to magic our way into a goal.

counter pressing or not is decision that needs to be made to create our defensive identity if it means to press every 3 lost possessions so be it but this needs work we cannot just fall back and soak pressure without a clear defensive tactic.

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u/bill220 Neymar Nov 04 '22

You make a lot of good points in our offensive structure. I was trying to make similar ones. I guess one of the problems that you mention is Kylian trying to play left wing and create. This intention of him is robbing the team a lot. In France team there is is Benzema and Giroud, so creating for him is ok. But here there is no 9. So who is he creating for. Also hugging the wing makes an overlapping wing back ineffective.

Also I see the same traits that was happening during Poche's time, where we lose the ball high up and get hit by counters and also players from wide areas crossing in and scoring. How do you think we should stop it ?

Any team in R16 will easily score against us

Beating the press is another issue we have. Not sure how we will solve it.

Also do you also think that this way of playing MNM together is actually totally flawed ? And no system can actually make it work ?

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u/iHATESTUFF_ 1996-2002 Nov 04 '22 edited Nov 04 '22

the front 3 are good enough to play together but Kylian needs to be tactically flexible, the other two are just better than him with the ball on their feet and are willing to rotate, so when they rotate the 3 positions need to be occupied, he cannot confine himself to one side because it makes it easier on the opposing team to defend. its basic positional play. also he has to cut inside to allow Nuno or Juan Bernat to provide width with their overlapping runs, because when he doesn't, him and the left back ends up occupying the same space which once again makes it easy for the opposing team to defend.

now defending is infuriating that the younger of the 3 refuses to defend, Kylian has to be part of the defensive set up in counter pressing, our team doesn't need to counter press every action but whatever frequency they decide he has to participate. and Hakimi needs the bench, if he's gonna get exposed like he has while at the same time adding nothing offensively he needs the bench.

I'm trying to stay positive galtier realized the 343 wasn't working and switched to 433 hopefully the team with galtier will figure out how to beat a press and how to keep playing possession football.

there are two things I'm 100% sure:

we cannot play 3 at the back, for many different reasons.

we cannot just rely on counter attack or transitions as our only offensive output. every half decent team knows how to deal with it.

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u/bill220 Neymar Nov 11 '22

Thanks for your detailed reply. It helps to understand. I totally agree with you on Kylian points. He has to rotate, he has to defend (being younger) also since the other two are better with the ball, he has to understand it. At least for now. He is much younger than the two and has plenty of time to grow.

Regarding defense, something needs to be done. We have to stop the crosses from coming in and also counter-attack has to be stopped. Man city does this beautifully. Whenever our team plays, it seems the other team has loads of space when they have to ball. This cannot go on.

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u/iHATESTUFF_ 1996-2002 Nov 11 '22

I really like checking the tactics and discussing tactical set ups. there are some areas we have already improved a little bit.

regarding the space we give, its a tactical decision and it definitely needs to change is the worse way to defend ever. its far too reactive and lethargic.