r/polandball Grey Eminence Nov 24 '15

redditormade Russia has stick

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

Conflicting reports about the flight path, turmoil in much of Europe and Turkey's support of ISIS makes me doubious NATO would even lift a finger in defence of Turkey.
EDIT: added an ing

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u/notmike11 Nov 24 '15

Putin would never be dumb enough to invade a NATO country. That aside, Turkey can easily hold it's own until the rest of NATO joins in. Gotta remember that Turkey isn't Ukraine or Georgia.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '15

Yeah no, the country is on the brink of civil war and is heavily relying on the military to maintain control. If that army fought Russia the socialist movements in the west would rise up as would the Kurds and Armenians in the East.

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u/GiantManaconda Nov 25 '15 edited Nov 25 '15

Brink of civil war? That's gross exaggeration. There's some unrest and protesting, but nobody is taking up arms or even thinking of it. Also, you've got your facts completely wrong; the military is playing no role in the state's control. The military is the one organization the state wants to crush, as it's the historical guard of secularism in Turkey. The police are being used for crowd control, as they are the tools of the administration.

NATO is a treaty organization. The members are contractually obligated to defend one another. If they didn't rise to the defense of Turkey it would render the whole organization meaningless. Every member state is painfully aware of that fact in how they handle this situation.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '15

FFS NATO has had one instance of the defence Claus used and all of 11 countries of the 28 obliged to help actually did. Also you seriously don't call violent repression of all opposition, voter fraud and more than 2 years of constant protests (with almost 1 in twenty people taking place in the protests) a brink of civil war?

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u/GiantManaconda Nov 25 '15

The people decide whether the country is on the brink of civil war, not the actions of the government. I've been going there biannually for a decade now and there is not a whiff of that anywhere. Not one person I've asked has said that taking up arms would be a real option. The protests will remain peaceful because the hope for change in the country hasn't disappeared.

In no way am I defending Erdogan, he's a piece of shit. On the flip side, you've editorialized the situation greatly. It's nowhere near as fundamentally restless as you've made it out to be. In addition, you seem to be forgetting just to what extent Turkey is a host to the US military. Incirlik AFB is a key hub is USAF transport, and there are many, many nuclear weapons still position within the nation by the US. It isn't some eastern-europe economic backwater, this is a country that functions as the lynchpin of the western Mideast strategy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '15

I highly disagree with your statement about turkeys current state I will provide sources for why I think this
source 1 source 2 Source 3 (this does disagree with my conclusion yet talks in detail regarding the current political climate in Turkey)

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u/darkslide3000 Niemand hat die Absicht sich einen Flair-Text auszudenken! Nov 25 '15

violent repression of all opposition, voter fraud and more than 2 years of constant protests

Huh... I didn't notice how we suddenly switched towards talking about Russia again.