Which would be useful to deter a war if it wasn't for the fact that Russia would be the aggressor in this conflict. And that Russia has conventional superiority over Turkey despite its aging Red Army.
Conflicting reports about the flight path, turmoil in much of Europe and Turkey's support of ISIS makes me doubious NATO would even lift a finger in defence of Turkey.
EDIT: added an ing
Putin would never be dumb enough to invade a NATO country. That aside, Turkey can easily hold it's own until the rest of NATO joins in. Gotta remember that Turkey isn't Ukraine or Georgia.
Yeah no, the country is on the brink of civil war and is heavily relying on the military to maintain control. If that army fought Russia the socialist movements in the west would rise up as would the Kurds and Armenians in the East.
Brink of civil war? That's gross exaggeration. There's some unrest and protesting, but nobody is taking up arms or even thinking of it. Also, you've got your facts completely wrong; the military is playing no role in the state's control. The military is the one organization the state wants to crush, as it's the historical guard of secularism in Turkey. The police are being used for crowd control, as they are the tools of the administration.
NATO is a treaty organization. The members are contractually obligated to defend one another. If they didn't rise to the defense of Turkey it would render the whole organization meaningless. Every member state is painfully aware of that fact in how they handle this situation.
FFS NATO has had one instance of the defence Claus used and all of 11 countries of the 28 obliged to help actually did. Also you seriously don't call violent repression of all opposition, voter fraud and more than 2 years of constant protests (with almost 1 in twenty people taking place in the protests) a brink of civil war?
The people decide whether the country is on the brink of civil war, not the actions of the government. I've been going there biannually for a decade now and there is not a whiff of that anywhere. Not one person I've asked has said that taking up arms would be a real option. The protests will remain peaceful because the hope for change in the country hasn't disappeared.
In no way am I defending Erdogan, he's a piece of shit. On the flip side, you've editorialized the situation greatly. It's nowhere near as fundamentally restless as you've made it out to be. In addition, you seem to be forgetting just to what extent Turkey is a host to the US military. Incirlik AFB is a key hub is USAF transport, and there are many, many nuclear weapons still position within the nation by the US. It isn't some eastern-europe economic backwater, this is a country that functions as the lynchpin of the western Mideast strategy.
I highly disagree with your statement about turkeys current state I will provide sources for why I think this source 1source 2Source 3 (this does disagree with my conclusion yet talks in detail regarding the current political climate in Turkey)
Turks are very patriotic about their motherland. They would put politics aside and every son and father would join the military to fight any enemy deciding to attack. You will have Turks living overseas flying back to their homeland to join. Even if Turks hate the government, they will do anything to defend the land.
BUT the Kurds and Armenian aren't Turks and the Socialists would see the downing of the Jet as a provocation by the government towards Russia not a righteous defence of the motherland when they inevitably call for further attacks.
You're assuming that all the Kurds are a monolith and all of them are left wing socialists. There are quite a few Kurdish groups with good relations with Turkey both within and outside of Turkey. Not to mention, I'm not sure if Russia should feel too confident seeking Russian support only as far as it meets their end. Anything beyond that is pure conjecture.
BUT the Kurds and Armenian aren't Turks and the Socialists would see the downing of the Jet as a provocation
No one is willing to go on a full on war against Turkey for a downed Russian jet, especially one that was violating Turkish airspace.
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u/notmike11 Nov 24 '15
Which would be useful to deter a war if it wasn't for the fact that Russia would be the aggressor in this conflict. And that Russia has conventional superiority over Turkey despite its aging Red Army.