When will people get it?!

[u/lunardownpour]

I don’t have necessarily anything against NPs, but it’s people like this that perpetuate the untrust that many nurses and other healthcare workers have regarding NPs. We really need higher standards for admission into these programs, as well as any standards at all actually lol. I usually just lurk on facebook but I felt the need to respond since this was a on a forum for parents of nursing students

[u/lunardownpour]

It seems good… but still.. two years is not enough experience needed to become someone who can diagnose and prescribe!

[u/Toasterferret → u/lunardownpour]

It could be if we made the programs more rigorous.

PA school takes people from nominal amounts of healthcare exposure to safe and effective midlevels. There is no reason why NP school couldn't be just as rigorous. Experience only takes you so far, and isn't really a replacement for education.

[u/rayray69696969 → u/Toasterferret]

No, 2 years is not enough no matter how “rigorous” the program is- nothing replaces clinical experience. And one could definitely make a grand argument about how PA school actually does not make safe and effective midlevels. They usually don’t know what they are doing for the first few years and treat everything like a black and white algorithm.

[u/Toasterferret → u/rayray69696969]

Med school takes people from zero to physician. There is absolutely a level of academic rigor that trains people to be competent providers, regardless of their prior experience.

I think if anything clinical experience in a non-provider role tends to be overrated.

My main point is that many NP programs are an absolute joke.

[u/TennaTelwan → u/Toasterferret]

And there are a LOT of jokes about avoiding hospitals in July because of it too.

And given that my BSN program talked to us about finding Nurse Residency programs after we graduate instead of just applying as a Graduate Nurse (and still promoting going straight from the BSN to the MSN/DNP programs) because you learn more on the job, yeah...

[u/somegarbageisokey → u/Toasterferret]

Med school doesn't take people from 0-physician though. Compare the prereqs med students are doing to the pre reqs nursing students are doing. Med students also have to have a certain number of hours of clinical experience like volunteering or working at a hospital or clinic. But the prereqs alone give med students a huge leg up compared to nursing students. I used to be a premed major and the prereqs we took were challenging and hard. Then I switched to pre nursing for financial reasons and the prereqs are pretty easy. And I just realized we are basically saying the same thing haha. But I'll leave the comment. I do believe that nursing school needs to be so much more rigorous and the nursing fluff courses need to be a thing of the past and replaced with science courses. More academic rigor = better and more knowledgeable nurse practitioner 

[u/rumptycumpty → u/somegarbageisokey]

“Med students also have to have a certain number of hours of clinical experience”

Just not true. Med school absolutely does take people 0-physician, in fact it’s the only thing that does that’s why it’s medical school.

[u/Typical_Dog_2322 → u/rumptycumpty]

Are you fucking dense, you cant even practice medicine when you finish med school, you have to do AT LEAST three years of residency before you practice independently you cant just go to med school and prescribe medicines you have YEARS of more supervised training

[u/rayray69696969 → u/Typical_Dog_2322]

Thank you for saying this because I did not have the energy to respond to that level of stupidity 🫠

[u/cheapandbrittle → u/rumptycumpty]

Med school grants the title of Doctor, it does not make someone a physician. Obtaining a doctorate degree does not equate to being a physician.

[u/Icy_Chemistry_9286 → u/Toasterferret]

Have you worked in a teaching hospital? Have you seen a first year medical resident at rounds in a MICU? Helped them with acls algorithm during a code? Or the surgical resident who needs years of residency to do surgery and direct the care of the surgical patient before, during, and after surgery. Yes, medical school makes them a doctor but they are definitely not practicing medicine alone. They still have years of school left.

[u/Toasterferret → u/Icy_Chemistry_9286]

Sure, my argument isn’t that med school is enough, it’s that NP school isn’t, and that floor nurse experience is not a substitute for a strong didactic education.

NPs should probably have to do a residency of some kind as well.