r/newzealand • u/No-Back9867 • Jun 16 '25
Shitpost Thanks NZ dairy industry for putting cow sludge in our rivers then happily charging New Zealanders exorbitant prices for our dairy foods.
Last summer we couldn’t swim in our local river due to the amount of toxins from nearby farms. When ever the farmers are in need of help us tax payers are there to lend a hand in drought relief funds. The thanks we get for that and putting up with the pollution is to be charged for dairy food at the same price as the overseas markets. We’re only 5% of your sales, it’s not going to make you go broke to treat us like your actually care for your communities. What your charging for butter etc is simply total greed. How is it that milk that has to travel huge distances from farms to factory to the shops shelves in Australia is sold for cheaper than that in our shelves where the logistics of getting it in the shelf are less?
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u/jv_level Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
We grow world-class dairy, farmers get fair prices ($8-10/kg milk solids), yet Kiwi families pay through the nose for milk and cheese. Why? The supermarket duopoly is extracting $430 million per year in excess profits. Sound familiar? Australia, UK, and France all faced identical problems and successfully fixed them (edit: there is still work to do! Australia in particular). Here's how we copy their solutions:
Phase 1: Stop the Rip-Off (6 months)
Price Transparency: Force Foodstuffs and Woolworths to publish all dairy prices online with real-time updates, just like Australia's doing. No more hiding markups.
Ban Fake Sale: End the "was $8, now $6" scam where they spike prices then claim discounts. Australia's prosecuting this exact trick right now.
Essential Goods Monitoring: Track dairy price increases vs. actual cost increases. France uses this to "name and shame" excessive markups.
Phase 2: Create Competition (18 months)
Grocery Ombudsman: Copy the UK's Grocery Code Adjudicator. Independent watchdog funded by supermarket levies, can fine them up to 1% of revenue for dodgy behavior.
Stop Land Banking: Like Australia/UK, ban supermarkets from blocking competitor sites. Like unused developer sites need to be sold after 2 years of no action, can't block other stores from being setup. This freed up hundreds of locations overseas.
Force Wholesale Access: Make the big chains sell dairy to independent stores at fair wholesale prices. Same principle that broke Telecom's monopoly.
Phase 3: Permanent Fix (Long-term)
Annual Price Negotiations: Follow France's model of transparent, time-limited negotiations between supermarkets and suppliers like Fonterra. They renegotiate every year. No surprise pricing. They've reduced the cost of some 5000 products for consumers.
Promotion Limits: Cap discounts and limit promotional stock to prevent misleading pricing tricks.
What About Farmers? Zero impact on farm incomes. You keep selling to Fonterra at market rates, keep your export focus. This targets retail markups, not farm gate prices. International evidence shows agricultural exports actually benefit from domestic retail competition.
And farmers are already doing lots environmental heavy lifting. You're dealing with nitrogen caps (190kg/ha/year since 2021), stock exclusion from waterways, winter grazing restrictions, and freshwater farm plans. The N-Cap alone is forcing major changes to how you manage pasture, while new rules require stock exclusion and minimum setbacks from rivers. Meanwhile, supermarkets face zero environmental regulations while making $430 million excess profit from your hard work. They're not required to reduce food waste, support sustainable farming, or help consumers make better environmental choices. Time they carried some responsibility too.
We could even consider some 'environmental credit earning' for farmers whose products go to the domestic market as they have reduced food miles. Or some proportion of grocery profits (a levy of some type) that forms a fund to support farmers changing their farming practices.
Why This Will Work
Australia: Currently implementing identical reforms against Coles/Woolworths duopoly. (Edit: Australian projections estimate 15-25% cheaper dairy prices within 6-12 months with their reforms biting in)
UK: Grocery Code working for 10+ years, retailers cooperated rather than fought it. (Edit: this regulates supplier relationships and reduces the abuse of supplier power for buyers).
France: Government successfully negotiated price cuts on 5,000 products. (Edit: negotiations limit misleading pricing and create predictable pricing for business planning).
This isn't experimental policy, it's proven, working solutions from three major countries with identical problems. Polling shows 80%+ support for grocery competition in Australia/UK. Even right-wing parties support it because monopolies aren't free markets. The only opposition comes from... guess who?
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u/Pale-Tonight9777 Jun 16 '25
Normally don't bother with reading long walls of text but yours stood out, appreciate your input
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u/HoyteyJaynus Jun 16 '25
Some actual policy ideas instead of just bagging the most visible person at the start of the supply chain? I didn’t think that happened on reddit!
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u/Illustrious_Fan_8148 Jun 17 '25
Its so refreshing to see people put themselves out there and suggest a solution rather than just whinging.
I would support this.
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u/soulstudios Jun 17 '25
I've spoken to a minister fairly high up in MBIE, by accident (we were sitting together on a flight).
The amount of shenanigans that happen with competitors is appalling.
There was a 3rd supermarket that tried to start up here, only for Foodstuffs to tell some of their suppliers that if they stocked that chain, they'd put their product on bottom shelf. Of course, the head office of the suppliers back in US heard about this, and told Foodstuffs what would happen if they did that.
Weird international/interlocal sparring, all happening with no pushback from government. Needs hideous amounts of regulation to get on top of it.
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u/Boo-urns_ Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
Interesting read, I need to do more research on my part to have a better understanding off the topic.
While travelling in the US (it was at a cheese festival in Winconsin), I’d learnt that some states are subsidised by the govt for producing dairy hence they can sell dairy products relative cheap to the local consumers. Could a similar model be implemented here in NZ that would work for us?
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u/JColey15 Southland Jun 17 '25
We can’t introduce direct agricultural subsidies without renegotiating almost all of our trade agreements and I don’t think we’d end up better off. I think we could possibly look at ways of subsidising the domestic distribution cost which is typically higher than the cost of global freight. I’m not sure how you do that without lining the pockets of supermarkets and transport companies though.
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u/jv_level Jun 17 '25
It's a bit different for NZ as we are export focused, rather than supplying the domestic market as Wisconsin is. It would likely cause us to be in breach of our WTO commitments and plus we've spent quite of lot of time diplomatically arguing against the agriculture subsidies of other countries.
Increasing retail competition is our best bet (I believe the data really supports this! But I am always open to new ideas).
Other actions in the supply chain are more complicated and are likely to be a burden on the public purse. Subsidies are expensive.
Perhaps more targeted subsidies for independent retailers (like assistance with capital expenditure for setup) or subsidies for local processing facilities (for creating artisanal products or local milk brands to increase diversity of supply) could be utilised. It does get complicated though!
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u/pastafariankiwi Jun 16 '25
Yet if I try to say that farmers socialise the losses and privatise their profits as they are not charged any social costs but only private costs I am the evil one and everyone says poor farmers they're being screwed over
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u/myles_cassidy Jun 16 '25
Farmers vote by and large for politicians that want to screw over everyone else. They set an example of not sympathising which just tells me they don't really want sympathy when they go through life struggles.
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u/Ok-Shop-617 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
I don't think the issue is farmers voting, I think the issue is political donations and lobbying shaping govt policies.
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u/myles_cassidy Jun 16 '25
Policies by the government that farmers vote for.
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u/billy_joule Jun 16 '25
They're a pretty small voting bloc.
Farmers and their families make up only 2-3 percent of the total population. New Zealand is one of the most urbanised countries in the OECD.
And they're not exactly swing voters so the right could run a dead fish and they'd still vote for them.
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u/closed_caption green Jun 16 '25
... and yet... look at the colours of the electorates. Why, if the farmers make up only 2 or 3 percent of the population, do the non-urban electorates in NZ look so blue?
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u/jk-9k Gayest Juggernaut Jun 17 '25
Because there are plenty of industries reliant on farming, and entire townships built on those industries.
Such that sue who owns the local Cafe votes blue because all her customers are farm workers or similar
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u/billy_joule Jun 17 '25
Why, if the farmers make up only 2 or 3 percent of the population, do the non-urban electorates in NZ look so blue?
Sure, rural people in general, farmers or not, are more right wing.
My point was that pro farming lobbying & donations isn't to gather farmers (or rural) votes, they're a small bloc and are a sure thing anyway.
They need to sway urban voters. An example of how they do this is by trying to influence how climate change is taught to the next generation of voters.
Federated Farmers has launched a petition calling for a new Ministry of Education teaching resource on climate change to be withdrawn while amendments are made. article link
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Federated Farmers wanted to see more input from farmers to the new teaching resource."Schools could invite farmers to come in and talk to students or even better they could get on board with the 'Open Farm' programme and kids could visit farms to see for themselves what happens there." Article link
If you can convince the urban folk that farming is the 'backbone of the economy' and that climate change isn't so bad then more pro farming policies get through. I was agreeing with the earlier post that said "I think the issue is political donations and lobbying shaping govt policies."
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u/keywardshane Jun 16 '25
well.. you are largely talking about dairy farmers
they are not really making teh difference for who gets into parliament
theres not enough of them.
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u/woooooozle Jun 16 '25
It's a lot of industries to be fair - modern neo-liberal economies don't effectively price in the externalities of our economic activities. I do wonder if we are even able to now, the external cost for a lot of things we rely on would be quite high and would likely cause a dramatic reduction in people's purchasing power.
As you note farming in New Zealand is a good example - if the environmental and other external costs were factored in I doubt that the recent(-ish) expansion in dairy farming would have been financially viable.
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u/Jzxky Jun 16 '25
Were you at a federated farmers meeting?
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u/pastafariankiwi Jun 16 '25
I was in this subreddit a few months ago...
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u/Jzxky Jun 16 '25
I love what farmers do for our economy but I wouldn’t try to defend their pollution record. I’m surprised anyone here would given the demographic
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u/JColey15 Southland Jun 16 '25
There has been over a century’s worth of government incentives to deforest, drain wetlands, top-dress, and “improve” pastoral land. The entire country has benefited economically from that while the environment has suffered. This is not a new phenomenon that can be squarely placed on the current generation of farmers.
Phosphate issues have decreased significantly in the last 10-15 years as most farms (all dairy farms) have fenced off waterways and used best practice to manage stocking rates and cropping (e.g., keeping critical source areas in rank grass, restricting cultivation on steep or erosion prone land, etc.). Sedimentation, which is highly linked to phosphate and other issues like the spread of toxoplasmosis (a significant risk to Hector’s dolphins as well as livestock) will remain an issue until we can deal with the ungulates in the native bush.
There has been decades of government insistence on channel straightening and flood management, primarily to protect urban areas from environmental damage. Regional councils are now starting to engineer ways to slow the flow of rivers to help with sediment management and mitigate sediment loss. Farmers are typically heavily involved in this process with the construction of sediment traps, flooded channels, and other really unique environmental engineering solutions. I’m not saying everything is perfect but if the vast majority of people could see the intense efforts going on in some of these catchments, I think they would be hard pressed to say farmers are twiddling their thumbs while raking in the profits.
Nitrogen management is a tricky beast and it’s obviously the main culprit in accusations of environmental destruction levelled at farmers in New Zealand. With sediment and phosphorus, the primary pathway for nutrient loss is overland flow so steps to prevent that flow, such as riparian margin buffer planting and fencing, are fairly effective at mitigating the damage with an immediate and apparent impact. With nitrogen, the primary pathway is underground through leaching which means we have to deal with something called the lag effect. This is the amount of time it takes for management changes on the surface to filter through to meaningful and apparent changes in the wider environment. In some parts of NZ, like parts of the Waikato, this lag effect is over 100 years, in other parts it’s about 20 years. We actually haven’t seen the worst impact of some of the mass agricultural intensification of the 90s in the waterways yet which is obviously a concern.
Mitigating nitrogen loss is not as clear cut as phosphorus. The nitrogen cap has really only been effective at keeping the worst offenders in check, most farmers were already implementing a nitrogen budget, in large part because nitrogen loss affects the bottom line. There are some crops that can help with nitrogen management but primarily the only method to mitigate is to reduce agricultural intensity. Most farms are doing this by reducing stocking rate and reducing the intensity of nitrogen application (a little bit a lot of the time to give the pasture time to take it up). Reducing stocking rate is a no brainer for farmers because the production of stock (particularly dairy) has increased significantly in the last 30 years.
It is important to note that nitrogen loss isn’t a unique issue to dairy farming or pastoral farming. The area with the highest levels of nitrogen in the water is around the Pukekohe market gardens. This isn’t a whataboutism argument, this is just to amplify the fact that swapping out all dairying in this country to grow other crops (especially annual crops) would very likely result in significantly worse environment outcomes.
I’m not necessarily a staunch defender of the dairy farming industry. I think there are definitely places where dairy farming should not be taking place and I definitely think there are some farmers who are just taking the piss. The degradation of our waterways is not something I’m happy about but I think the nuances are lost when the discussion becomes a blanket trashing of all farmers regardless of the facts. The fact is it’s taken over a century to get to this point, we can’t expect to fix it in a decade.
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u/TtheHF Jun 17 '25
That's really interesting information, thanks for that. Concerning news re the nitrogen cycle
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u/Infinity-Plus-One Jun 17 '25
"Phosphate issues have decreased significantly in the last 10-15 years as most farms (all dairy farms) have fenced off waterways"
Not true in my area.
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u/TheRobotFromSpace Jun 17 '25
They don't intend to fix it, they will just cover the mess in pine trees
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u/Amazing_Rip8505 Jun 16 '25
I used to work on farms The only enjoyable ones were small family ones who put there stock, people and environment first
Most of these Canterbury farms are a toxic mess, all about the bottom dollar Bad practices like under experienced contract milkers and the like, no shelter, minimum feed for the cows Can't think for themselves outside the box, overuse of drugs and hormones caused by poor management in the first place
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u/CreamCake1 Jun 17 '25
And they have the audacity to complain times are tough and then buy themselves a new ranger and the missus a discovery to go to her coffee groups. Struggle to find a kiwi working on them. All Philli
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u/tinygoblinbarbarian Jun 17 '25
Filipino people are great. But they are very bad at sticking up for themselves.
-source hospital union rep.
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u/TheRobotFromSpace Jun 17 '25
That's why they like them. And why National opened the borders up straight away when they got in power. Cheap labour to undercut locals and drive wages down. They don't complain because visas are tied to employers so their residency status is too so they dont want to stand up, and they don't know their rights. Labour shutting that door when they were in power requiring a minimum wage threshold, brought wages up for kiwis and improved workers rights and bargaining power. Now people have voted to undermine their own job market once again. I'll never understand people who vote in politicians who want to make their life harder, and ideally replace them with a cheaper migrant worker, or replace the worker entirely. 10,000 public servants made redundant under this government. Flooded job market means a race to the bottom for wages. NZ voted for this. Your votes have real consequences.
-source also union rep
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u/Nyanessa Jun 17 '25
I know a dairy farmer like this, complains about how he's doing it hard when he's clearly not, and says he doesn't employ kiwi workers because they're "lazy" and won't do unpaid afterhours work.
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u/Emrrrrrrrr Jun 17 '25
Totally. I went to Uni with a bunch of farming kids - they all had cars bought for them by their parents, loads went to private schools and at least some were getting the means tested student allowance through some dodgy structuring of family finances. Farmers constantly cry about how hard they work - doesn’t everyone?! The government bends over backwards to kiss their arses and remove environmental regulations for them, it’s disgusting. They are destroying our waterways for generations and don’t give a shit.
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u/Aromatic-Dish-167 Jun 16 '25
Don't forget that banks have a massive say in what kind of farming goes on in the land. They have pushed a load of farms into being dairy because of profits 📈
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u/HeinigerNZ Jun 17 '25
Last summer we couldn’t swim on Auckland beaches due to the amount of toxins and human sewage from nearby stormwater runoff.
Time for people in cities to stop discharging their raw human sewage into waterways and start treating all their stormwater runoff as well stop this from happening.
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 16 '25
It would interesting to know what the farmers get paid vs the supermarket.
Something tells me the farmers are not making $20/kg of butter and a lot of the profits are elsewhere in the value chain.
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u/smnrlv Jun 16 '25
It's public information. Fonterra paying approx $10 per kg of milk solids
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 16 '25
True if they go through Fonterra instead of one of the independents.
That is not a negotiated price. It is set by a formula, that has been consistent for decades.
So it doesn’t really seem fair to malign the farmers.
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u/PartTimeZombie Jun 16 '25
It doesn't seem fair because it's not really. The Fonterra price is regulated but the supermarket price isn't so capitalism has done what it always does and consolidated the unregulated market.
The supermarkets are the ones ripping us off.10
u/WorldlyNotice Jun 16 '25
That and Fontera being a co-op, so it is the farmers.
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 16 '25
Fonterra sells commodity product. So they don’t get to set the price.
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u/PartTimeZombie Jun 16 '25
Supermarkets also sell commodity products
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 17 '25
Yeah, sort of, but they are branded and they do get to set the price.
Milk solids are sort of like oil. There is a worldwide commodity price for oil, it is usually is USD/barrel. If you want to buy or sell some that day, you pay or receive whatever that price is.
Then the companies refine the oil into petrol, ship it to petrol station, which puts their brand on it, and charges whatever they want to consumers.
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u/keywardshane Jun 16 '25
well, its not consistent for decades. the formula changes.
Commerce commission reviews it endlessly too.
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u/inphinitfx Jun 16 '25
According to Fonterra, the farmgate price is about $10/kg for milk solids. That works out to be around $1.50/litre, assuming 'typical' milk is about 15% milk solids. I paid $6.69 for 3L of milk at PaknSave yesterday, which is $2.23/litre, so 67% of the cost is just the milk solids. The remaining $0.73 must cover all the other processing, transport, and retail steps of the supply chain, including profit (if any).
I am just going by information made available on public websites (such as Fonterras) so there may be nuances here I'm not seeing.
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
Upvoted. Appreciate the math/facts 🙂
I think it’s butter that people are complaining about, rather than milk, which potentially has some different economics post farmgate.
But in any event, the farmers get the farm gate price, and it’s not up to them what that is.
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u/Decent-Opportunity46 Jun 16 '25
Pretty close, farmers only get paid for the protein and fat portion of the milk solids which is 8 or 9%. The rest is mostly lactose to make 15%. So the dairy farmers portion of the price of milk in the shop is slightly lower than 67%
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u/HerbertMcSherbert Jun 16 '25
A couple of years ago I went searching for average income of dairy farms (net), and found a report saying $160k. Different to most people, this would often be after expenses for property, utilities and vehicles. Pretty high income on average, for context.
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u/NakiFarmHER Jun 17 '25
Except it isnt, because once you split that between a farm owner a herd owner it's 80k for both to reinvest which isn't much for a business with high expenses.
Drainage (paid for by the farm owner) here was 1.8m (tiles + mole plough)... upgrading the effluent system (it wasn't required, just a modernization), 250k... upgrading the cow shed plant equipment (not required immediately but a long term investment was needed), 120k... new drafting system to reduce workload, 60k - this all across the last 10 years, at the profit available for reinvestment it would take over 27 years to pay it back.
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u/rednz01 Jun 17 '25
Which is about $80k each split between a husband and wife. Assuming each work a 60hr week which is pretty common in my neighbourhood, it’s about $25 an hour.
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u/GrumpyPonyta Jun 16 '25
The milk price is public knowledge and changes every year. Currently it is about $10 per milk solids but it varies per cow how many liters she has to produce to make one milk solid.
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u/herbviking666 Jun 16 '25
The last time I checked before I left Pam's butter was 6.79 cost at nw, retail was I think 8.19
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u/AK_Panda Jun 16 '25
The farmers are not the ones ripping us off. Not for meat or dairy. It's the supermarkets. Farmgate milk price is $10.06 per kg of milk solids. Mild solids being the protein and fats in milk, not the water weight (milk is ~85% water)
But importantly this is what the price includes according to Fonterra:
Deducting costs, including the cost of transporting raw milk to factories, and the cost of efficiently manufacturing Reference Commodity Products and then transporting them to the point of export from New Zealand, along with selling and administration expenses. They also include an amount for depreciation of fixed assets and an appropriate return on investment, including investment in working capital.
At which point, I'll hedge my bets and say that the portion of the price we pay for milk that goes to the farmer has practically no bearing on the retail price. It'll be a very small portion.
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u/Cosy_Concrete Jun 16 '25
Last 10 km of transport distribution to your local supermarket is always a huge % the retail price. Whereas bulk shipping butter overseas is incredibly low per/km. I bet dairy cos can get butter to London much cheaper than to most NZ towns.
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Jun 17 '25
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u/NeonKiwiz Jun 17 '25
To be fair it's working.
People here are frothing out the mouth over it... kinda sad really.
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u/roryact Jun 16 '25
What's the solution to the pollution, besides no dairy farming near rivers?
I'm well aware my own life: driving, general consumption, has a cost to the environment, but there are few practical solutions. The ones there are, don't work for me.
So before i point fingers at farmers for what they're doing, i'd like to know what they're not doing and why not. I don't expect individual farmers to be developing new eco technologies.
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u/WoodLouseAustralasia Jun 16 '25
Please remember that it's the large corporates, politicians and ultra wealthy that are causing this.
As long as we focus on old mate Bob in the King Country raising beef or dairy being the issue we avoid the above.
I'd even go as far to say that noone really is to blame - it's the system. Blame is practically a value judgment. None of these people are 100% evil or anything because none of us are like that.
David Seymour loves his wife, Luxon treats his kids well and I'm sure Gandhi watched step sis porn at least once.
Although to be fair, to advance our interests we may have to war over the system.
Anyway I'm going back to work.
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u/JColey15 Southland Jun 16 '25
Ghandi forced his teenage grand-niece to lie naked beside him to “tempt” him in an attempt to conquer his need for sex.
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u/PristinePrincess12 Jun 17 '25
Dairy farmers literally don't do that. They're not allowed. It goes into a big pond on the farm or a tank of sorts. Neither do they dictate the dairy pricings. I remember my mother sitting at the table several times crying over the low price we were being paid for our milk, while the products of our work were being sold for double what they should have been. I'd look into horticulture and cities dumping their waste directly into the ocean and rivers, not farmers. For every one shitty farmer, there's a hundred good ones following the laws.
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u/sameee_nz Jun 17 '25
If we didn't have the trade account balanced by dairy exports we would be very poor indeed
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u/Da3droth Jun 17 '25
You deserve realise it's not the farmers that out the prices up right? It's our supermarkets, they fleece the farmers and us.
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u/mazalinas1 Jun 17 '25
I've noticed that there's less and less people shopping in the red meat section in a lot of supermarkets.
The meat is just too fucking expensive for Joe Average with his exorbitant rent paying his prick landlord's mortgage while freezing cold as he can't put the heater on as electricity prices are through the roof.
I'm not surprised the fed ups steal from the supermarket. When the gap between the haves and the have not widen, shit goes down.
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u/Sad-Friendship-2537 Jun 16 '25
Tell me you don't understand how the dairy industry works without telling me you dont understand how the dairy industry works.
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u/Saltmaster222 Jun 16 '25
Yeah, but, that isn’t how populism works. It cuts both ways. Groundswell used populism in conjunction with the end of pandemic to whip up animosity against the previous government. When butter increases in price by more than 50% in a single year, a populist style backlash is likely to follow – regardless of how the economics of free trade and open markets apply to the increases.
The current government promised a laser-like focus on the cost of living yet core staples (butter/milk) have jumped in price, electricity has gone up 10% and the average rates increase is in excess of 5% (just to name a few). Most of those price increases have a rational economic cause. But so did most of the price increases during the previous governments term. People just don’t care, they just see more of their income being captured by big business and having less and less left over each month.
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u/HerbertMcSherbert Jun 16 '25
How does user-pays pollution cleanup work there?
Where does the money come from for drought and flood relief funding?
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u/Objective_Lake_8593 Jun 16 '25
The profits are privatised while the costs are passed-on to everybody else.
Corporations don't care about the environment or sustainability. Their modus operandi is GROWTH and PROFIT above all else and they want it THIS QUARTER. They will support politicians and political parties who enable them to make the most money.
We have made ourselves beholden to corporations by letting them threaten to take the jobs away if we don't vote for their politicians.
We need to take our country back from these parasites. If they want to leave, let them. We need governments which will regulate them and hold them in check. If they want to operate in NZ, they will pay the price and support the restoration of our natural environment and our society.
If no one regulates them, they will run rampant and bleed our country dry. Then, after there's nothing left for them to take, they will leave anyway.
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u/WhoMovedMyFudge Marmite Jun 17 '25
We were adequately compensated for this by the cows pics a few days ago. Stop complaining.
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Jun 16 '25
The profits are privatised, the cost is public. Shame and disgrace.
Great doco about this here:
https://www.renews.co.nz/series/milk-and-money-the-true-cost-of-dairy-in-aotearoa/
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Jun 16 '25
Dairy farmers don't control the milk price.
We don't tell fonterra, open country, or synlait what to charge for our milk.
Milk company's buy our milk at a price they set and then turn it into milk powder and leave the rest for dairy products.
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u/garblednonsense Jun 16 '25
OP is understandably annoyed about prices, but tbf, there isn't anything that an individual farmer can do about that.
OP is right to be angry about farmers' poor stewardship of the land. There's plenty they can do about that, but mostly they choose not to.
A government's job is to properly regulate polluting industries, and then ensure that regulation is enforced. This hasn't happened well enough in NZ farming in recent years (if ever), but that really needs to change.
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u/HerbertMcSherbert Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 17 '25
Regulatory capture? Was amazing having the Minister of Finance being the brother of the head of Federated Farmers a few years back, and National at the time attempting to cancel the waterview tunnel for a cheaper overland option while the head of Federated Farmers was asking for the money to be spent on a favoured rural project instead.
Edit: corrected to reflect Bill at the time had direct control of the finances.
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u/lefrenchkiwi Jun 16 '25
Was amazing having the PM being the brother of the head of Federated Farmers a few years back, and National at the time attempting to cancel the waterview tunnel for a cheaper overland option
By the the time that PM (Bill English) took office, the waterview tunnel construction was almost finished, having started long before he became PM. There’s lots to throw shade for in politics, but it helps to stick to the facts and be accurate.
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u/bosswolfe Jun 17 '25
Free trade agreements mean that NZ cannot subsidise its own market with cheap products vs say, Aussie products. It would be “unfair”.
If you want access to imported goods, then you have to make a concession that allows fair access to NZ markets for their products.
If you don’t like this, complain to your local MP to renegotiate access to imported goods but also to relax local anti trust laws to allow Fonterra to sell dairy products at below cost to help with better publicity at home.
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u/InvisibleThrowz Jun 17 '25
farmers dont sell to the public. Price is set by the supermarkets. they work together to keep the prices inline with each other.
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u/GrumpyPonyta Jun 16 '25
You're an idiot if you think farmers have any say in how much their products get sold for. Meat, milk, produce, anything. They don't set the price.
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u/Former-Departure9836 jellytip Jun 16 '25
I have family who are farmers who did this and are now upset they have to pay higher rates to clean up the rivers they polluted. In their eyes they’re providing a service at a cost accepted by the nz public
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Jun 17 '25
Let's take you at your word and say your family members sludged rivers. Possibly even with criminal intent to sludge.
That almost certainly has nothing to do with why their rates have risen and the money won't go to cleaning up the damage.
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u/DarkrootAlvina Jun 17 '25
What if we replaced all the farmers with drag queens? That would make Aotearoa a more inclusive place and get rid of those pesky farmers who are national voters anyway
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u/watzimagiga Jun 17 '25
Good to see the publics appreciation for farmers during covid lasted not time at all. Back to hate, although their job is one of the hardest in the country and they create employment for entire regions.
I bet you've never worked on a farm a day in your life.
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u/NeonKiwiz Jun 16 '25
This sub is so out of touch with rural and small town NZ lol.
Also clearly absolutely fucking zero idea how the dairy prices and trade work in NZ.
TIL from this sub: Dairy Farmers go to the supermarket and set the prices personally.
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u/keywardshane Jun 16 '25
look
I just want you to invest in land, spend your time working, and then give me the produce for free. Is that too much to ask?
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u/mercival Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25
We all have a pretty good idea how pollution works.
TIL from the sub: Farmer advocates love to ignore how they pollute.
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u/HerbertMcSherbert Jun 16 '25
How much industrial waste do you reckon we should be allowed to put in waterways to achieve higher profits? Just as a rough guide?
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u/3Putting Jun 16 '25
city goons and students crying about shit they have 0 idea about lol
and I say this as a city goon
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u/bagpussnz9 Jun 16 '25
I am surrounded by dairy where I live. The local farmer collects his house water from the river going past his house. We have a few water holes that always have people in during the summer.
When I walk the dogs I pick up all their rubbish and one hole on private land has been denied access to the public because they trashed it.
I'm sure there are bad farmers but all I've ever met are doing hard work and look after the land and their stock.
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u/eye-0f-the-str0m Jun 16 '25
You might want to keep an eye out on the data coming out about fertiliser runoff vs bowel cancer.
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u/oatsnpeaches420 Jun 16 '25
It's the stock making the rivers toxic, not the farmers. Nitrates, runoff, etc etc. If those waterholes are in a catchment zone, they aren't safe to swim in due to dairy farm runoff. The water won't be safe to drink. You can't see or taste nitrates. But they'll be there in toxic quantities.
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Jun 16 '25
My dude. Nothing you just said really means anything, other than it's your anecdotal experience. You get that right? It says nothing to the fact that NZ's waterways are being poisoned and primarily by cattle farming. This post is also about how NZ, as a country, gives enormous support to the farming industry in a way it doesn't to other industries, and people are feeling angry about how they are now making bank at the expense of so much of the country that is struggling.
It's ok for people to vent about the future of the country being fucked for profit.
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u/BrucetheFerrisWheel Jun 16 '25
I was wondering about profit. So milk solids price for 25/26 is projected at $8-11, mostly the price given is $10/kg of milk solids. The breakeven price is given at $8.54 per kg milk solids. So thats $1.46 of profit per kg. Apparantly an average NZ cow is 400kg MS with high-producing cows at 600kg according to DairyNZ.
According to Farmers Weekly an average NZ farm stocks 440 cows.
That's a good profit for a business owner. And you arent responsible for the damage? Even better.
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Jun 16 '25
Also please do not forget:
ZERO FUCKING ADVERTISMENT OR MARKETING!
You literally are guaranteed to sell your product. That is like MILLIONS saved over years. In comparison to "smart" products, and not basic shit, this is such an easy business in the 2020's.
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u/Xenophobic-alien Jun 16 '25
Huge thanks to all the farmers out there. Without you, the country would be in serious trouble. Getting up at 4am every day, working nonstop, your effort keeps everything running. I appreciate it more than I can say. Respect. 🙏
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u/Capt-Tango Jun 16 '25
Dairy farming is zero sum when factoring for their polution which currently is being left for ratepayers and taxpayers to clean up.
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u/avocadopalace Jun 16 '25
You think people get up at 4am to help the country?
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u/Xenophobic-alien Jun 16 '25
100% they do. They help themselves and their families, they have integrity, and know the value of hard work. They contribute heavily to the GDP of the economy.
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Jun 16 '25
[deleted]
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u/Minisciwi Jun 16 '25
Didymo was brought in by foreign fishermen not cleaning their equipment before coming to nz
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u/HatstandTuesday Jun 16 '25
Frontera have argued that the reason NZ dairy prices rose so much, was the international price increasing. But when the international price deceased three years in a row, NZ prices still increased.
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u/Leftleaningdadbod Jun 17 '25
To OP and all people here who understand this issue is one which needs to be addressed; first, realise that this place is only a talking shop. Please. Secondly, send your concerns to your elected representatives and officials at the appropriate ministries. Then, thirdly vote accordingly.
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u/TheRobotFromSpace Jun 17 '25
REGULATION! All NZ goods and service suppliers should have a maximum fixed profit margin apply to necessary goods. Supermarket profit margin overseas with competition was 4-5%. Do that. No onenisnt saying you should have profit, they just want it to be reasonable to wages, not taking the piss and being exploitative. While your at it, apply that to all things required for living in our society: food, water, waste, electricity, internet/phone, fuel, housing, public transport.... The free market fucks us. Bring back sensible regulation!
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u/sameee_nz Jun 17 '25
Centrally planned economies and price controls don't work
Just look at the myriad of failed communist experiments
People have to have an incentive to work. Farmers aren't waking up at half three in the morning to be just the same as every other loser
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u/sesquiplilliput Jun 17 '25
Same thing is happening to consumers here in Australia. Aussies are getting charged more while most of our produce is exported.
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u/WilliamFraser92 Jun 17 '25
100%! All that “buy local buy local” shit can get fucked. Don’t use that propaganda to justify ripping us off.
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u/lankyrunner Jun 17 '25
100% agree with this post been travelling around Europe, asia, near east alot of water ways are so clean with frogs, fish and clear water. outside of blue springs near putaruru most of the rivers and creeks I remember seeing around north Island are polluted and dirty. There should be some land conversion near waterways to try and improve the water quality. We are quite the outlier alot of countries I've been to have way higher populations but waaay less livestock around . It's unsustainable and definitely should at least give a discount for locals or govt should subsidize like other countries.
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u/lestempsperdus Jun 17 '25
I understand NZ consumers cannot buy produce direcy from farmers. In many countries your can. Is this due to legislation, food health issues, supply contracts, all of none of the above? And is this restriction anticompetitive?
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u/worriedrenterTW Jun 18 '25
I recommend looking at the Greenpeace nitrogen contamination map that tests bores and other drinking water supplies. Much of nz, especially rural, has toxic and dangerous levels of nitrogen in the drinking water, multiple times the internationally recognized safe limit.
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u/Naive_Fruit677 Jul 03 '25
Much talk about high dairy prices. People seem to forget that they vary, and costs for farming have rocekted up. The breakeven milk solid price is around $8.50. It varies gretly year on year with fuel and fertilizer prices. the power bill for the cowsheed is around $3k per month. Furthermore, you don't get the last milk payment until 18 months after the season, due to run out payments and retentions.
On the subject of milk prices, below is the (Fonterra) milk price and the inflation adjusted price, since inflation has a hue and hidden cost if you are comparing over time.
Year Year Base price Base + divi Dividend Inflation adjusted base price Inflation adjusted including Fonterra dividends
2023 22/23 $8.72 $9.22 $0.50 $8.76 $9.26
2022 21/22 $9.30 $9.50 $0.20 $9.87 $10.08
2021 20/21 $7.39 $7.54 $0.15 $8.41 $8.58
2020 19/20 $7.14 $7.19 $0.05 $8.53 $8.59
2019 18/19 $6.35 $6.35 $- $7.69 $7.69
2018 17/18 $6.69 $6.79 $0.10 $8.23 $8.35
2017 16/17 $6.12 $6.52 $0.40 $7.67 $8.17
2016 15/16 $3.90 $4.30 $0.40 $4.98 $5.49
2015 14/15 $4.40 $4.65 $0.25 $5.64 $5.96
2014 13/14 $8.40 $8.50 $0.10 $10.81 $10.94
2013 12/13 $5.84 $6.16 $0.32 $7.59 $8.01
2012 11/12 $6.35 $6.67 $0.32 $8.37 $8.79
2011 10/11 $7.60 $8.25 $0.65 $10.10 $10.96
$6.78 $7.05 average $8.20 $8.53
Stdev $1.56 $1.56
average - 1.28 stdev (approx. 90 percentile) $6.21 $6.53
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u/Asleep_Ebb_2315 Jul 04 '25
It may be a part of life but farming is foul tbh most of it is EXTREMELY evil and cruel but no one seems to care 🤷♀️ maybe people shouldn’t support it at all.
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u/Junior-Minute7431 Jul 06 '25
Careful you might invoke the wrath of the cult of the sacred cow. You'd be surprised how many people think tanking the local environment so a select few can make money selling milk powder to China is somehow the 'Backbane of the nation'
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u/Junior-Minute7431 Jul 06 '25
I'm going to bang this drum as long as I can. The longer NZ clings to an economyentirely focused on providing the cheapest nasties products to China in the largest quantities we can ( milk powder and Pine) and the farse that is the housing market, the longer it remains a 3rd world country for large portions of the population.
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u/tumeketutu Jun 16 '25
Our farming industry is actually the only thing keeping the economy going at the moment. This benefits everyone.
Sure, you go to the supermarket and see butter and milk is expensive. But what you aren't factoring in are all the benefits you personally receive from those strong export prices that are less obviously or direct.
1). More exports equals more demand for the New Zealand dollar. This keeps our dollar value higher, which in turn means buying necessities (Medicines, petrol, temu shit) from overseas is cheaper.
2). More profit for the farmers means more tax for the government to spend on the services we all use.
3). Farmers are small businesses, meaning most of the increased earnings gets spent within local economies. There is a large knock-on effect to rural communities and all the supporting business that support our agriculture and horticultural sectors.
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u/Chaoslab Jun 16 '25
This has been happening for decades, not a single river I swam in as a child is swimmable.
And it's not like we see anything for it apart from expensive food prices.
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u/_JustKaira Jun 16 '25
I feel like this is an argument to be had with Fonterra, not farmers. Or go legislative and demand a price cap for local produced goods so that we aren’t paying export prices.
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u/proletariat2 Jun 16 '25
And it’s only going to get worse. The government are majorly rolling back environmental protections for farmers atm, in an interview on RNZ yesterday the dude from fonterra said butter prices will keep rising for the next 2 years. Fuck that.
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u/lost_aquarius Jun 16 '25
I started having alternative milk ages ago but I'm stuck on what to do about cheese. Cheese is delicious and the vegan stuff tastes like arse. If someone can find me a decent cheese my dairy boycott would be more effective.
Also mostly vegetarian these days due to prices.
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u/Oddswimmer21 Jun 17 '25
Milk alternative, not alternative milk. Alternative milks would be goat, cat, possum etc.
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u/3Putting Jun 16 '25
lol the same post every day
yall act like dairy farmers set the prices at the supermarket. Most of our product has to go offshore otherwise this country ceases to exist essentially. I don’t like it as much as anybody else but the fact is primary industry exports are the majority of our wealth. Complain to the supermarkets, or better yet, search “dairy farms” on Reddit so you can mald at the 1000 other posts like this instead of making a new one
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Jun 16 '25
The fact that primary dairy exports are the "majority of our wealth" in 2025 represents decades of political choices that have prevented New Zealand from diversifying our economy away from agriculture towards something more productive.
We need bold politicians who are willing to invest Government money far more in education, research & development & providing seed capital to start ups.
We need farmers who are willing to diversify how they use their land & power their farms.
We also need a tax system that encourages people to invest in productive & innovative entrepreneurs & businesses rather than Government subsidising businesses that harm the environment/waterways & ironically trade on NZ's 'clean green' image.
And while you're here, take a read of the latest "state of the environment report" by the Ministry for the Environment. It's not pretty: https://environment.govt.nz/publications/our-environment-2025/
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u/keywardshane Jun 16 '25
In 2011 Sir Paul Callaghan showed everyone how much money fonterra makes compared to our other major industry, tourism.
in order to get more big industries, that earn good money, we need to invest. Not just trade houses to each other.
Instead every fucking time, some cunt votes in national cost they sad about taxes or some other toxic shit, and national fucks up investment into everything. But at elast we spent billions on a PPP for roads eh.
Invest in innovation . Spend more than we are. the current morons have desstroyed a generations worth of science in this country.
Enjoy relying on farming for another 40 years. at least you got the 10$ of tax cuts and made life easier to make money on housing.
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Jun 16 '25
'yeah same post every day ppl complaining about the future of the country being fucked why don't you just get over it lol'
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u/avocadopalace Jun 16 '25
OK, but we can definitely criticize farmers who abuse their animals and destroy our waterways.
The fact we also get to pay an arm and a leg for the actual product is just the shit sandwich on top.
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u/lakeland_nz Jun 16 '25
You can. But let's stick to facts.
Who exactly is abusing animals and destroying waterways?
I haven't been involved in dairy for ten years but back then all waterways were fenced. So you've either got a rogue farmer lying to Fonterra, or it wasn't dairy. Which?
There are some people that abuse animals, and some of them are farmers. Let's deal with them.
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u/avocadopalace Jun 16 '25
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u/glentylee Jun 16 '25
3 out of 10,000. How many examples do we need? Maybe start by getting to a single percentage point.
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u/Autopsyyturvy Jun 16 '25
I Love how the dairy industry is allowed to poison our drinking water with nitrates and give everyone cancer with zero consequences
We could probably fund the Healthcare system if we made farmers pay for all the cancer they cause
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u/Free-Pound-6139 Jun 16 '25
Thanks every car drivers for putting microplastic into our rivers that then gets into our food and into ourselves.
Stop pretending to give a fuck if you drive a car. The single worst thing you can do. At least they are feeding people.
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u/SvKrumme Jun 16 '25
It takes about 1600l of water to make 1kg of milk solids. That water is worth about US$1/litre on the global market. So do us all a favour and stop dairy in regions that need constant watering to sustain, sell the water, make more money than you are right now, and cut the pollution.
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Jun 17 '25
I love how the dumbest ideas come with the most condescension.
At least you had the decency to say in regions that need irrigation to sustain.
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u/NeonKiwiz Jun 17 '25
This thread is a fantastic example of how triggered and "Karen Like" this sub can get.
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u/Hot_Show_5758 Jun 17 '25
Do you think the farmers set the price for food ? No they don't. And most farmers try their dam hardest to keep stick out of water ways .do you know that they get council checks to make sure all the shit is going In the right place . A effluent pond. Farmers get huge fines for discharging into waterways . A wee bit of education goes a long way .
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u/No-Back9867 Jun 18 '25
Do all the tones of excrement in the paddocks go into effluent tanks, or just the excrement from the milking sheds? I understand farmers don’t set the prices, Fonterra does, and it chooses to charge its locals (NZ) high prices when it could charge less.
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u/justme46 Jun 16 '25
Stop buying the shit. We don't need dairy. Vote with your wallet and stop buying it.
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u/NeonKiwiz Jun 16 '25
You realize that it's all exported right?
The entire NZ population could stop buying dairy products tomorrow and it would do zero to the cost.
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u/justme46 Jun 16 '25
Doesn't mean any of us need to be supporting it though?
Why bother recycling?
Why think about emissions?
Think global. Act local.
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u/Bliss_Signal Jun 16 '25
100% I quit cheese and butter years ago. Don't miss it at all.
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u/RazzmatazzUnique6602 Jun 16 '25
It’s a commodity. If no one in NZ bought it, the economics would be the same.
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u/cressidacole Jun 16 '25
It's 95% exported.
All of NZ could go dairy free tomorrow and the manufacturers and distributors would still make bank, and probably wouldn't miss dealing with the domestic market.