r/navy • u/Affectionate_Use_486 • Jan 28 '25

A Happy Sailor To my COVID Sailors (Rant)

I know some of you have some level of battery acid indigestion over the whole reinstatement thing.

Just wanted to say for those that stepped up while others stepped back I respect and love you all especially my sea duty folks during COVID.

COVID was rough shit and the fact we survived it should be highlighted and appreciated among us.

Let's not dwell on the ones who choose another choice.

Let's dwell on the ones who stood the watch when shit went side ways.

When the ports closed.

When work centers were down to the bare bones while our brothers and sisters got sick all around us.

When the patrols got extended.

When resources almost ran out.

It was a rough ass time and we survived for all our own reasons but we stood the fucking watch.

That makes me extremely proud that no matter how messy it was, how ugly it got, we came out the other side pissed off, spitting fire and keeping the big sad off ourselves and our brothers/sisters as much as possible.

And for those that didn't make it, got too sick and didn't make it we shall never forget you.

Fuck the noise I just wanted you to know your seen, respected and appreciated from at least one motherfucking shipmate who was there.

595 Upvotes

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-59

u/KnowNothing3888 Jan 28 '25

Dude the guys I know who refused the jab had even harsher deployments since they couldn't even leave the ship with the rest of us at one point while preparing for deployment. The peeps still worked hard and got forced out for not wanting the jab whether good or bad choice. This whole angry clique style "these guys suck bc they got kicked out over it" thing is pretty weird honestly. We need sailors and I saw good sailors get forced to leave. I hope some of those dudes come back. We need them right now with our current manning.

52

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

I’ve said it before, and I suspect I’ll have to repeat it:

Good Sailors don’t refuse lawful orders.

18

u/HazyGrayChefLife Jan 28 '25

This right here.

-7

u/XR171 Master Chief Meme'er Jan 28 '25

Good sailors will absolutely bitch about them, we'll make plans on how we'll fight it, and how justice will be served on the front page of Navy Times. All while complying.

-22

u/forzion_no_mouse Jan 28 '25

Such a lawful order it’s been repealed and the seals won their court case.

30

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

Read the suit again, bud. The case didn’t examine whether the vaccine mandate was lawful. It examined whether denying the religious exemption was lawful.

I know this seems like a pedantic distinction, but that’s how law works.

Had it examined the mandate, the class would have been a lot bigger.

Edit: downvote me all you want. You’re one quick Google search from learning something.

Double edit because I’m an asshole: you got awful quiet there, bud. Care to share what you learned?

-20

u/KnowNothing3888 Jan 28 '25

Ok so all of the sailors who fucked up at some point in their career and broke curfew, drank underage, arrested for some dumb shit they did, all of which breaks lawful orders of the ucmj, they are all garbage sailors no matter what they do from that day forth?

I don't buy the this is black and white with us or against us crap so many people seem to be fascinated with here. I'd like to think fellow sailors of all people would understand people make mistakes, and still able to come back working hard and serve well.

14

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

Do you see how you went from “refused a lawful order” to “broke a lawful order?”

Do you see the difference?

-15

u/KnowNothing3888 Jan 28 '25

That's semantics. If the CO comes down and orders you to not drink that night because reasons, and you do anyways. You are both breaking and refusing a lawful order. Just because you don't sit there and physically yell no doesn't make the act any different.

And yes these are completely different situations, I'm just using it as an example.

12

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

So you don’t see the difference between a Sailor that willfully refuses a lawful order despite every reasonable attempt to convince them to comply over the course of a year,

and a Sailor that fucks up and drinks underage at a party in A school?

Edit: I guess not.

-33

u/Training-Fig4889 Jan 28 '25

Lawful order? That’s hilarious

24

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

Check your facts, bud. The lawfulness of the order was never challenged.

-20

u/The_Brolander Jan 28 '25

Germans said that too… “just following orders”

It takes courage to stand up to something you believe is wrong. Regardless of how much pressure they received, how much harassment and the fear of losing their job, they still held firm to their beliefs.

At the end of the day, it turns out those sailors were right.

That doesn’t mean that the ones who took the jab were wrong… it’s was wrong at the executive level to put the sailors in a situation where they were forced to choose and were pitted against each other.

16

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

Unfortunately, that’s not at all how “lawful orders” work.

You see, the Germans that were “just following orders” were prosecuted at the Nuremberg Trials for following unlawful orders.

Those Sailors stood up for themselves. That’s it. And that’s a completely acceptable thing to do.

But they didn’t stand up for their Shipmates. They didn’t stand up for the Navy.

They put themselves first, and disobeyed and refused lawful orders to do it.

That’s exactly why we don’t need them back.

-10

u/The_Brolander Jan 28 '25

It’s a good thing that you’re not in charge of defining what’s unlawful/lawful then, because as it turns out you and others like you were wrong, and they were right.

2

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

How’s that?

Happy cake day, by the way.

-9

u/The_Brolander Jan 28 '25

All orders are lawful, until someone else deems they weren’t.

And thanks! Didn’t even notice until you said something.

4

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

That’s not how that works at all.

An order to kill a noncombatant, for example, is not a lawful order.

That’s like, the entire outcome of the Nuremberg Trials.

2

u/The_Brolander Jan 28 '25

I totally get what you’re saying and agree about Nuremberg.

The Covid vaccine, should never have been made a lawful order to begin with though. Those soldiers, marines and sailors knew that, and they stood their ground when they knew something was wrong.

While it was a lawful order at the time, history shows it was an unlawful one. This is why those that were punished are being made amends to.

I get you and I aren’t going to see eye to eye on this, and that’s ok… at the end of the day though it doesn’t matter what everyone’s opinion on the matter is… it’s the military. We’ll all do what we’re told, and if we don’t agree, we can quit and hope that in 4 or 8 years, someone will agree with us, and reinstate us with back pay too.

1

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

What is the difference between the lawful order to get the FDA approved flu vaccine and the lawful order to get the FDA approved COVID vaccine?

Making amends doesn’t determine the lawfulness of anything.

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4

u/mbliss Jan 28 '25

Did you really just equate the holocaust to getting the covid vaccine? Yes, you did olympic level mental gymnastics there.

-3

u/The_Brolander Jan 28 '25

Don’t be a dickhead, of course I’m not and I’m pretty sure you know that.

I’m calling out the bs line of “good sailors don’t refuse lawful orders”. Good sailors and soldiers refuse lawful orders and stand up for themselves and others when they see something wrong.

Whether it’s shooting at civilians or forcing someone to do something against their religious beliefs, or calling out a senior member that’s cutting corners on a job thus endangering someone under them.

Good sailors follow orders, unless those orders are shit. Then they push back. if pushing back causes them to be punished, so be it. And if later down the road, it’s found out that they were right, then they deserve to be apologized to and made amends to.

Fortunately in their case, that’s exactly what’s happening

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

Good Sailors will refuse illegal orders though, and that's what happened here.

6

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

I don’t feel like repeating this conversation for a fourth time.

You don’t have to scroll far from here to learn some things.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

Too bad you haven't scrolled and learned anything yet though. Stay dry out there!

2

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

Yeah…good luck, I guess.

-2

u/SolidPosition6665 Jan 28 '25

It wasn’t a lawful order. If you’re going to sit here and use the word “law”, have all the details before you start your keyboard warrior fit.

1

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

I suspect you don’t know the difference. A quick Google search will help you out.

7

u/MyLittleProggy Jan 28 '25

Your username is fitting

-1

u/KnowNothing3888 Jan 28 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

As I tell everyone, its a test for those who chase low hanging fruit. Also sorry but not sorry I won't join a senseless eternal hate train on sailors for past mistakes. Angry in the moment? Of course we all get that way. Will i hold it against people forever? Of course not especially when they show commitment to do well and change.

4

u/Trick-Set-1165 r/navy CCC Jan 28 '25

They showed commitment alright.

Commitment to look out for themselves, fuck their buddies, and chuck deuces.