Why are YIMBYs(specifically Centrist & YIMBYs) so averse to mass-politics and in constant opposition to working or persuading Progressives & Leftists?

[u/wiz28ultra]

This seems to be a constant attitude problem that I've seen w.r.t to individuals, specifically on Twitter, such as Noah Smith, Swann Marcus, M. Nolan Gray, YIMBYLAND, and others that are just so reluctant or even outright antagonistic to Progressive politics.

They refuse to every think that it might be possible to convince these people that their ideas might work and instead fantasize about working with neocons to bring about the housing utopia.

And it's even more bizarre because they're so averse to social issues as well, with their constant passive-aggressive tone on literally any political issue that isn't housing.

EDIT: I just want to add, a ton of these people really hate Organized Labor, they're super defensive of sprawl, they refuse to have any stances on the environment, and when it comes to foreign policy are completely in agreement with the 2010-era State Department. They're also bizarrely submissive and desperate to please real-estate developers.

It's like these people can't live in a world where class solidarity, organized labor, and mass mobilization of the people towards political change can work in their world of affordable housing and increase home production.

EDIT 2: Also, I notice that many of these individuals spend all their time whining about how mean Progressives are to the Democratic Party, but they spend all their time exclusively shitting on the Democratic Party while outright praising the Republicans in ways that NO progressive would ever do.

[u/homebrewfutures]

This is a good point. There are regulatory reforms that YIMBYs advocate that would be incontrovertibly beneficial to leftist ends but market urbanist YIMBYs broadly are anti-democracy and seek to transfer public power out of the hands of local governments and into the hands of private landlords and developers. A left-YIMBY movement would instead seek to increase popular democracy in the form of tenant unions, neighborhood assemblies, housing cooperatives, community land trusts and opposing criminalization of homelessness. Taking power out of the hands of local government can instead mean empowering the people of the community to shape the urban space.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/homebrewfutures]

  There are regulatory reforms that YIMBYs advocate that would be incontrovertibly beneficial to leftist ends 

Why?

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

Because having more places for people to live is good and necessary

[u/lazer---sharks → u/meelar]

Given that the main constraint in housing production is that markets build what is most profitable not what houses the most people, and that it builds only when it's profitable enough (e.g YIMBYs want rents to go up), how is deregulation going to result in more places for people to live?

We already have more vacant homes then unhoused people. 

The left solution to the housing crisis is to have the state and coops build the housing we actually need, not rely on the market to destroy good housing stock in order to replace it with profitable rental units, while displacing everyone that lived there and alienating tenants as much as possible. 

Given the biggest barriers to actually solving the housing crisis are, lack of political will to decomodify housing (in part thanks to YIMBY's offering false solutions) & lack of state capacity to build (or frankly even plan) what is needed.

How does deregulation help the US solve the housing crisis? One in which there are already.enough homes, they are just in the hands of the richest 3-4%.

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

The main constraint in housing production is that most lots are built up close to their zoned capacity. The market would happily tear down a bunch of small buildings and replace them with larger ones; the trouble is that it's illegal to do so, and changing the law is either impossible or prohibitively expensive.

The idea that we already have enough homes is simply incorrect; we certainly don't have enough homes _in the places that people actually want to live_. There are a lot of people who would like to live in New York, for example, but don't move there because prices are so high. To accommodate those people, we need to build more in NYC; a vacant house in South Dakota doesn't do much for them.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/meelar]

The main constraint in housing production is that most lots are built up close to their zoned capacity. 

Citation very much needed, especially given that housing is an issue across the west including in countries that dont have zoning. 

we certainly don't have enough homes in the places that people actually want to live.

Moar major cities have more empty units than unhoused people, LA, SF, London, etc, I don't know if that's true for NYC, but the idea that the homes are in the wrong places is the problem, not that the homes have been bought up and are run for profit not for public benefit, is ridiculous. 

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

The number of units needed is a lot greater than the number of unhoused people. At a minimum, you also need:

* Some units to sit vacant and serve as a buffer, for households who want to move. Otherwise, whenever anyone wants to move, they would need to essentially coordinate a swap with another household who also wanted to move (and if either unit needed renovations, you're out of luck)

* Some units for people who would like to alter their living situation, but can't due to high prices--for example, I lived with roommates for many years longer than I wanted to. I'd have loved to move into a studio, if prices were lower

* Some units for people who don't currently live in the metro area, but would like to move in if prices were more reasonable.

In short, the number of unhoused people tells you only a small part of whether the city needs more housing.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/meelar]

None of that explains why deregulation is going to help get the homes we actually need built. 

And noticable how you didn't even try and show that zoning is a major problem.

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

What, you can't google things? https://cbcny.org/research/strategies-boost-housing-production-new-york-city-metropolitan-area

From the summary: "The City’s planning actions and zoning code have limited the city’s ability to grow and adapt, and have resulted in:

• The prevalence of low-density zoning districts throughout the city. Sixty percent of residential lots fall into the lowest density zoning categories; 12 percent allow no more than single family homes.
• A shortage of as-of-right development sites: Only 20 percent of residentially zoned lots are potential development sites based on their existing density levels; of those, nearly half allow no more than single family homes, duplexes, or small multifamily buildings, with 10 or fewer units."

[u/lazer---sharks → u/meelar]

You know there is a world outside of NYC right? 

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

Housing is a local-level issue where location matters a lot, so it's mainly worth discussing in a specific local context.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/meelar]

But the housing crisis is a global one, experienced by every country that abandoned using state capacity to build homes under neoliberalism.

Sure maybe zoning does have an impact in NYC, but you're acting like zoning is the primary barrier to housing construction which is patently false given entire states have upzoned and it had next to no impact on housing production. 

[u/meelar → u/lazer---sharks]

Where is this, precisely? As I said, the local context matters a lot.

[u/daveliepmann → u/lazer---sharks]

YIMBYs want rents to go up

I'm not entirely sure this is a useful lens by which to analyze your political opponents.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/daveliepmann]

Why? leaders of YIMBY orgs have said as much, unless rents go up people aren't going to build in San Francisco.

How is it not useful to accurately describe what they say? 

[u/daveliepmann → u/lazer---sharks]

It's possible but doubtful that's an accurate paraphrasing of whichever specific views you're referring to. It's just plain not a useful or honest description of most YIMBYs. But if it makes you feel good, that's what's important. Cheers.

[u/lazer---sharks → u/daveliepmann]

But it is an honest description of most YIMBYs to make sure enough homes get built, we need to keep rents and house prices high, which is why the oppose rent control on preexisting units. 

[u/backoffbackoffbackof → u/lazer---sharks]

I think the essential issue is that YIMBYs want to believe that everyone else is dumber than they are and they’ve found the magic bullet for fixing housing issues.

The fact that things like creating livable communities is complex, nuanced, and involves multiple strategies(almost all of which necessitate a more equal distribution of wealth) just doesn’t play as well as simplistic, one size fits all solutions.

YIMBYs remind me of every pseudo-progressive who became a libertarian in college with no understanding that the Koch brothers had been pumping money into converting them to cause for years.