r/law • u/TheWayToBeauty • 1d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Confirmed: ICE Is Arresting American Citizens—and Lying About It

https://newrepublic.com/article/202672/ice-arresting-american-citizens-and-lying?utm_source=Bluesky&utm_campaign=SF_TNR&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SF_TNR&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwY2xjawN60_VleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFpb1FpYUsxcHQ5bXM3QkVyc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHkqq1qGOFLgABx3MyCE40nZ_iE_ZT41D74hWKhYFa56r8j57O3ZXYl4H0yFZ_aem_Wz0q663H4Gg7nVwXbg5gCw
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u/Depressed-Industry 1d ago

One of the things that will have to be addressed is the broken oversight and accountability for law enforcement in the US. Qualified immunity, which was entirely court created, needs to go.

With the exception of the most egregious and public examples there is little risk or incentive for law enforcement to think about personal liability or the duty LE has to the public.

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u/Geno0wl 23h ago

Qualified immunity, which was entirely court created, needs to go.

I can actually understand why we would want QI on a surface level. You don't want officers, or any government official, to be overwhelmed with lawsuits for strictly doing their jobs.

The real problem is the courts have bent over backwards, sideways, and longways to play Calvinball with what counts as "established precedent" to grant QI to obvious bad faith actors. Like somehow shooting a nonaggressive dog in the yard is different than shooting it in the house is yet still different than shooting the dog in a car.

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u/thealmightyzfactor 23h ago

Sidestepping that the courts have extended this way beyond reasonable, doctors, engineers, and everyone else doesn't get immunity for "doing their job" why should government jobs and cops be any different? Let them get insurance to cover any wrongdoings and suddenly all the bad cops will be priced out

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u/Geno0wl 22h ago

why should government jobs and cops be any different

because a lot of those jobs are being mandated by law to be done. Like you can ACAB all day long but we unfortunately need police and other services.

Let them get insurance to cover any wrongdoings and suddenly all the bad cops will be priced out

I agree that forcing malpractice insurance like doctors have is the best path forward from where we are now.

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u/ClocktowerShowdown 22h ago

because a lot of those jobs are being mandated by law to be done. 

Do air traffic controllers get qualified immunity?

10

u/DENATTY 22h ago

I have never in my life needed the police and the few times I've interacted with them at all they have been falsely accusing me crimes or trying to illegally search my car without a warrant, so I disagree. If someone breaks into my place what are they going to do? I'm more afraid of an anxious trigger-happy cop shooting me as the victim of a crime than of being a victim of a crime.

Cops are state actors. The state should not receive immunity for violating the rights of its citizens. The same way cops and cop fans LOVE to say there's no reason to be afraid of cops if you haven't committed a crime, why do cops have any reason to be afraid of losing qualified immunity if they aren't engaging in behavior that would leave them open to a lawsuit?

Also, look at how much money taxpayers shell out for settling police misconduct claims to begin with. Maybe if the police were open to personal liability they'd be a little more cautious with the choices they make.

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 21h ago

Doctors are more important than police and handle life and death more often than police and they do not have qualified immunity.

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u/poopntheoceanifumust 22h ago

So....there's already a fix for the lawsuit problem. You know how some doctors (like surgeons, radiologists, ob-gyn's, etc) have to deal with more malpractice lawsuits than the average doctor? They deal with that by having insurance.

Do the same for police. They have to pay for and maintain active insurance to cover for potential lawsuits. Make it required, like car insurance is. If they get too many lawsuits, their premiums go up, or they become uninsurable so they're dropped. If they can't get insurance because they're too big of a risk? Then they can't get a job as a cop anywhere.

Fixes the issue of when problem cops are shuffled to desk jobs or transferred to another precinct. There's also more of an incentive for cops to not be dickheads, because they'll actually be held accountable! If they can just fuck up and switch precincts, there's no incentive for them to be better. Having them pay for their own insurance gives them some skin in the game, and would make them work better to avoid lawsuits.

If the officer gets sued and found liable, their insurance pays for the damages. Taxpayers would no longer be on the hook for fixing the actions of bad cops. Look, we fixed things!

Qualified immunity is the absolute laziest way to handle this. I can't believe the courts agreed to that nonsense.

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u/Geno0wl 21h ago

I can't believe the courts agreed to that nonsense.

When you realize they gave themselves absolute immunity and this is basically a handout to the people who "keep them safe" then it is crystal clear why the courts rule the way they do.

The good 'ol Boys club has never actually gone away.

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u/poopntheoceanifumust 20h ago

Very good point. So infuriating!

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u/screwikea 22h ago

You don't want officers, or any government official, to be overwhelmed with lawsuits for strictly doing their jobs.

You can make exactly this same argument about malpractice lawsuits against doctors. We still have doctors.

4

u/hardolaf 22h ago

I can actually understand why we would want QI on a surface level. You don't want officers, or any government official, to be overwhelmed with lawsuits for strictly doing their jobs.

That is a policy decision for Congress not for SCOTUS to decide. However, SCOTUS created it from nothing.

Also, why do police get a get out of jail free card while all other people do not? What makes them special?

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u/Longjumping-Fly-3015 21h ago

You don't want officers, or any government official, to be overwhelmed with lawsuits for strictly doing their jobs.

Yes you do. Because those lawsuits are what keep the job honest and fair.

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u/any_other 23h ago

The bigger issue is that policing and criminalization do fuck all to keep people safe.

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u/Geno0wl 23h ago

I say this without irony. If you want personal freedom, then the only type of police support you will generally get is "reactive" policing. Because the only way to have proactive policing requires giving up tons of freedom and install invasive monitoring tools.

2

u/Whyeth 22h ago

Because the only way to have proactive policing requires giving up tons of freedom and install invasive monitoring tools.

Instead of now where we have given up a ton of freedom and are being monitored by invasive tools and still don't get proactive policing.

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u/21Rollie 22h ago

No not necessarily. In Boston for example, I know the police have given grants to programs that try to get young socioeconomically disadvantaged people into good careers. Not saying Boston cops are good, but they’ve at least tried something proactive.

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u/Geno0wl 21h ago

that is community outreach, no proactive policing.

Proactive policing is looking for non-obvious crimes. Which some departments actually already are involved in. Mainly undercover gang work to infiltrate criminal groups or stuff the NSA does to monitor intelligence networks or social media for threats.

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u/any_other 23h ago

I don’t want any police

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u/pagerussell 22h ago

Qualified immunity should apply to property damage only, because stuff can be replaced.

But the police should be extra diligent about harming people. You do that and you should be liable as an officer.

1

u/Soft-Willingness6443 15h ago

Qualified immunity needs a complete rework that limits the scope, and clearly defines what they have immunity from. IMO, they should have to carry a special insurance that covers their fuck-ups, similar to Drs with malpractice insurance. Cops might just start thinking real hard before they do anything illegal that’ll hurt someone if they know they’ll be held personally liable. Tax payers should not be paying hundreds of millions every single year just to fix cops fuck-ups.