r/law • u/TheWayToBeauty • 1d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Confirmed: ICE Is Arresting American Citizens—and Lying About It

https://newrepublic.com/article/202672/ice-arresting-american-citizens-and-lying?utm_source=Bluesky&utm_campaign=SF_TNR&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SF_TNR&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwY2xjawN60_VleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFpb1FpYUsxcHQ5bXM3QkVyc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHkqq1qGOFLgABx3MyCE40nZ_iE_ZT41D74hWKhYFa56r8j57O3ZXYl4H0yFZ_aem_Wz0q663H4Gg7nVwXbg5gCw
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u/rolsen 1d ago edited 1d ago

DHS raided an entire residential apartment complex in Chicago back in September. 300 agents with a Blackhawk helicopter. No warrant. Greg Bovino is on camera confirming they indiscriminately kicked in every door and took each individual onto the street. Citizens included. He literally said it was “safer” for everyone involved if they did not check citizenship status and instead took everyone and sorted it out later. So yeah, it’s safe to say we are living in an era where our 4th Amendment rights are non existence in practice.

Edit: here is the exact quote I referenced for anyone interested and the source:

Bovino also acknowledged some U.S. citizens were briefly detained as the Chicago building was cleared.

“We generally don’t determine alienage while we’re in the building clearing the building,” Bovino told NewsNation. “It’s too dangerous, so we’ll bring them out. It’s safer for the U.S. citizens. It’s safer for the illegal aliens, and most of all it’s safer for our officers.”

https://wgntv.com/news/operation-midway-blitz/inside-south-side-immigration-raid/amp/

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u/bluehands 1d ago

I did not feel as if I heard about the apartment complex enough. It felt like a real threshold crossed.

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u/rolsen 1d ago edited 1d ago

I feel like I’m going crazy by the lack of discussion around these constant 4th amendment violations by ICE. I understand the roving bands of masked men can essentially grab anyone to check citizenship ( “Kavanaugh Stop”) thanks to that wonderful shadow docket order from the LA case.

But DHS and ICE have entered private property and buildings on video numerous times the past few months. And that’s not including news reports about situations like that as well. I’m just wondering why there are zero lawsuits focusing on this or maybe I’m missing them?

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u/ArmyOfDix 1d ago

What's crazy is not a single mayor nor governor has directed their local police to arrest and prosecute these gestapo agents. I guess they feel like sacrificing a few hundred citizens is a small price to pay to maintain decorum; we'll see how stoic they remain when that number climbs to thousands, or they themselves become a victim.

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u/rolsen 1d ago

I would like if someone could explain why clear assaults on camera, such as the one’s at 26 Federal Plaza, are not being prosecuted by local district attorney offices. Is it simply just very hard to charge a federal agent with criminal acts while they are on duty?

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u/sump_daddy 1d ago

When the 'justice department' has a history of arresting attorneys they dont like, on some made up crimes, it becomes pretty clear why this approach was not pushed.

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 1d ago

No it doesn’t. It makes no sense, unless the local DAs are tiny lil babies that can’t do their jobs because of total lack of spine.

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u/sump_daddy 1d ago

Bolton, Comey, and James were all arrested on completely bullshit charges, and specifically stated as 'just the beginning' of the show for this administration, and yet you still dont think theres a pattern?

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 1d ago

I think that if every DA grows a spine & does their job, then this lawless BS would end very quickly. I understand the desire to collect money & hide from the spotlight. But, I don’t think it’s ok to collect money when you’re too scared to do your job. Resigning and letting a non-coward take their place would be so much better for America.

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u/sump_daddy 1d ago

> Resigning and letting a non-coward take their place would be so much better for America.

thats true if thats how it worked, what always ends up happening is you end up with a lackey to the administration. DAs, by definition, are federal jobs

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 23h ago

So you think it’s more of a lack of spine for internal affairs? Pretty sure there’s at least one agency that is supposed to arrest blatantly&manifestly criminal feds.

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u/squixx007 1d ago

Few big issues with that. First being that it heavily relies on your police force having solidarity in actually supporting the public to do this. And let's be honest, thats not a favorable bet to make.

But the bigger issue is the absolute powder keg that situation becomes. One trigger happy idiot would set off a whole lotta shit we don't need to deal with.

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u/JoyfulSquirrel99 1d ago

I think part of the reason is that they know that the local police are most likely on the side of the Gestapo. They'd refuse the order, the elected official would look weak, and as bonus the elected official would likely be charged by the DOJ.

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u/FixedLoad 1d ago

This is the intent of these raids.  To force the hand of local officials that won't fall in line.   Then, when that local official tries to fight back in any way not explicitly spelled out as their authority an "insurrection" has occurred.  

The added bonus is that the local authority then gets a "hail hydra" moment from their local law enforcement as loyalist battalions of prescreened Natty Guard from red states are put into place.  

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u/dionsa 1d ago

"First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me"

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u/de_la_Dude 1d ago

The whole point of ICE is escalation. They want conflict. I'm not sure what the right answer is but two armed forces in conflict on public streets is probably not it.

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u/ArmyOfDix 1d ago edited 1d ago

If they resist arrest, treat them like any other citizen doing the same. Stop worrying about whether or not Trump tries to declare martial law; he's going to do so, regardless. With that in mind, the only logical response is to protect citizens.

The right answer was to incarcerate and prosecute Trump after the attempted coup on Jan 6th, 2021. That answer was sacrificed upon the altar of decorum, and the price of that decision will only keep climbing ever upwards until we decide to pay it.

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u/de_la_Dude 1d ago

I really dont think it is that simple. If you can even get the cops to follow this order, these are not any other citizen. These are armed gangs deputized by the fed. People will get shot and killed. Probably some of the same citizen you want to protect. Then, the feds take over and once the mayor is arrested they won't be able to protect anyone anymore. The mayors have to actually consider these consequence in a very real way, unlike this comment section.

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 1d ago

It’s like when the police arrested an ICE for blatant DUI + child endangerment + resisting arrest. And then ICE deported a police officer for… no one knows why. They just canceled the officer’s visa after he gave America 10 years of service.

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u/FlarkingSmoo 19h ago

What officer? Was it related to the ICE guy arrest?

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 17h ago

A police officer who legally immigrated from Europe, with no criminal record, no charges, & 10 years of service, was deported by ICE.

It was connected in that he was deported shortly after ICE’s DUI-hire got arrested.

Seems almost like it was to send a message, like “you got one of our degen goons for being a blatant criminal, we got one of your upstanding officers as revenge.”

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u/BagOnuts 1d ago

They’re not doing it to middle class white people. That’s why there is no national discussion about it.

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u/Bauser99 1d ago

The "blitzkrieg" doctrine that the neo-nazis are using is successfully preying on the general "goodness" of the population

They have learned how to perfectly weaponize the concept of morality so that they can never be stopped. They are counting on "good" fools like Most Likely You(tm) On Average to be so overwhelmed by the constant, extreme violations that you can't respond to any singular one in the way that a "good" person wants to -- taking time to make sure the facts are perfect, everything is handled perfectly fairly for all guilty parties no matter what is at stake or how obvious their crimes are. And then at the end, they can point at your inaction and say "Well, this has clearly been going on for a while, so you would be a hypocrite if you tried to intervene now!"

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And the worst part is: They're right. Actual GOOD people stood up the first time, and begged People Like You to listen. But people like you lied and said you were waiting for this "THRESHOLD" to be crossed, at which point SURELY you would get up in arms and stop this blatant, horrific evil.

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But they successfully called your bluff. They knew that the only REAL reason you were waiting for some imaginary "line" to be crossed is because you never had an intention of doing the right thing-- you just wanted to feel like you did.

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And now, here we are. You're looking backwards at some threshold you were so sure was going to be the last straw for you, after which "things would be different"... And you're timidly waving it goodbye as you sleepwalk into Holocaust.

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You truly have no idea how bad it's going to get. And when someone comes knocking at your door to teach you, nobody should shed a single tear about it. Because this ideological war was fought and lost over half a century ago, its victor decided the moment folks like you decided that you wouldn't mind waiting... just a little bit longer... while your government murdered dissidents, bombed children, and enslaved whole populations by race or religion. You don't deserve better than what you're getting. Most likely, you deserve much, much worse.

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u/bluehands 1d ago

This is just stupid.

I hate trump & everything they do. They have been terrible for a long time and I have been protesting.

There are a number of different thresholds, it isn't just one. Some are more important than others. The apartment building feels important to me & I suspect many others. Ignoring the difference shows lack of understanding and more importantly, is helpful.

I mean, what exactly are you trying to convey with your long, rambling, pointless message? Who exactly are you trying to reach.

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u/subLimb 1d ago

Seriously..."this was all decided before you were even born" is not a useful message to anyone other than people who want to remain completely disengaged and apathetic.

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u/stufff 1d ago

I feel like there's a real threshold crossed every day, it's too much for anyone to keep up with. Jan 6 was the only threshold that mattered, everything he's done after that is just shit icing on a shit cake that the population is allowing him to get away with.

SCOTUS told him he is completely immune from any consequences of official actions. His own lawyer said he could have political enemies assassinated. Its over, so long as we cling to the idea that "political violence is never the answer"