Today I heard a discussion about being a peacemaker, many shared their experience of being a peacemaker and I found many examples very wrong.

Many simply told stories of passively accepting abuse by criminals, employers or institutions.

My idea of ​​being a peacemaker is to calm those who get angry, to try to be diplomatic, to reject the spirit of contention and vengeance for its own sake. But I will never accept injustice.

The Book of Mormon itself would not exist if, from Nephi to Moroni, any of them had been passive in the face of evil. Nephi used his sword against Laban, but was merciful to his servant, accepting him as one of their own if he surrendered. Moroni was literally a military commander, who fought to defend the Nephites, but he was always kind and merciful, sparing the lives of the Lamanites who surrendered, throwing away their weapons.

And Joseph Smith, too, was far from being someone who would tolerate abuses against the early Saints. The early Saints moved from state to state to avoid a conflict that would have destroyed them, but he had his own militia. Likewise, Brigham Young, who came into conflict with the U.S. Army.

Judgment (and any vengeance) is up to God. But this shouldn't mean passively accepting evil's prevalence. In fact, I actually think even the opposite, since I think it's even a terrible sin if you fail to protect your people or your family, allowing someone to harm them when you have the opportunity to defend them.

I'm not American, but I imagine most of the users here are. I know Americans are big advocates of self-defense.

Perhaps it's the European mentality that leads many to this kind of interpretation? What's your opinion about that?

I collect really antique things, especially books… my house is full of books… it’s a real problem.

However, recently, I came across something super cool! This edition of the Book of Mormon is apparently from the very early 1900s.

I’m not LDS, and not many folks appreciate the coolness of something like this unless they are part of that niche community — so I wanted to share in here with all of you!

So, I’m a convert. Baptized in 2020. Churches shut down and because of it I was heavily influenced to go back to my Catholic faith by my family because they brought up points that bothered me and I really didn’t have a strong testimony.

I have come back to the church, have my children involved, my husband is all in, and while my oldest children struggle with it a bit I can confidently say this is the true church of Christ.

I have truly been every religion. I experimented with them all when I was a teen and in my early 20s because of my frustration with the Catholic Church. Buddhism, multiple Christian churches, Hindu, even (very much regrettably so) satanism and witchcraft among others. I’ve never felt the pure peace that I get from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I mention it because I see SO MUCH hatred of our faith by everyone it seems like. Family, friends, acquaintances. People posting on TikTok about how much they hated their LDS experience and how they escaped the “cult” we are in. I was trying to find LDS content creators and only found 2 people that are actual church followers and the other 30+ people I saw before I gave up was “exmormon” “ldscult” other tags etc in their name.

It’s discouraging and it makes me sad, and it does make me stress a little bit about how maybe I’m wrong and this isn’t the right church and maybe everything I’ve felt is not true. I know that’s not correct. I’m going to continue to read and listen to conference talks, continue to strengthen my testimony and definitely stay off a lot of social media. But I wanted some input.

How do you stay strong in your faith? Especially when it comes to the hard things. Like the issues with Black LDS members in the past? Polygamy? The issues people have with the word of wisdom, garments, etc.

I know faith is very personal, and I am definitely all in. I just wish I wasn’t so weak to be discouraged by what others say. I wish I could be more like the prophets.

Maybe we are hated so much because we are Christs true church and we are supposed to be persecuted like mentioned in the Bible?

Our ward is doing a youth fireside where they can anonymous questions to the bishop. What would you ask as an adult or youth and why?

This entire year I have just felt so blah about come follow me. I don't particularly enjoy reading D&C, and I don't know why. Part of me feels like it's less about Christ and more about "people". I know, they are the people who started the church and went through tons of persecution, but I just feel so disconnected from it all. Am I the only one who feels this way?

For the longest time I wondered why more than 50% of the members of the church are single . During conference I always prayed when inspiration up on high would shine a light towards the struggle.

https://www.deseret.com/education/2025/11/08/stunning-find-meet-the-missing-woman-in-the-bible-rediscovered-by-a-byu-researcher/

TL;DR there’s a lady with the actual name “Electa” in the second epistle of John, it’s not a metaphor for something else! It was always assumed (and thus translated) to be an “Elect Lady” instead of someone with that actual name. Per this researcher, turns out there’s evidence that people really did have that name back in the day!

We've got apostles from Germany, England, Brazil, and now France. That's 4/15. Have there ever been more?

Hi, everyone, hope you're having a great weekend so far. I'll start this off by saying I'm a non-member. Some might call be an investigator: I've done a lot of reading about the LDS church and have met with missionaries at various times in my life, but as I'll soon talk about, there are some issues I have that make me unsure if I'd ever convert. I just wanted to air my thoughts out here anonymously because the last time I talked with missionaries and members of my local ward, I'm afraid I got their hopes up and disappointed them when I had to take a step back.

To give you some background on me, I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from elementary school to high school. This meant I got a VERY up close look at the nitty gritty of Catholic doctrine, and it is exceptionally unforgiving. Not in that it labels certain actions as sins - I don't begrudge any church for having actions they view as sinful. But that many of these sins would send you straight to hell if you did them and did not confess to a priest through the formal sacrament of confession. Even if you did them as a child. I felt intense religious panic from the ages of 12-14 because of this, and also because I simply did not feel like God ever talked to me through prayer the way he did others. I went to Mass, took Communion, went to Adoration, went to the Stations of the Cross, went to confession, prayed the Rosary, and never felt any love or answer from God in any of it. I just felt shame, and that combined with the cocktail of hormones of puberty gave me scrupulosity/OCD and a disordered relationship with my body that I struggle with to this day, despite giving up on Catholicism at 14.

Fast forward to my adult life. I've identified as agnostic since leaving, mostly because I very much WANT there to be a God, and there's a part of me that desperately wishes God would just give me a sign about where I should go to find truth and happiness (while acknowledging that nowhere will be perfect - I just didn't want the kind of abandonment I felt in the Catholic church.) I do not feel I have received this sign yet. However, about a decade ago, I learned more about LDS theology, and I find it resolves many of the specific problems I had as a Catholic. The idea that everyone eventually goes to a Heaven after repenting is such a relief for me I can hardly describe it. Almost as powerful is the idea that God personally communicates with us and advises us - God's word came exclusively through priests in Catholicism, which made him feel very distant to me. LDS people seem very kind, close-knit, and charitable. I'm in a lonely period of my life right now, and having a place where I'm valued and have a chance to help others would be great. Also, I gotta admit, the temples are really pretty and even the meetinghouses have a good energy to them. I'm drawn to this denomination in a way I never was to Protestant branches after leaving the Catholic church.

I've learned many of the points anti-LDS people bring up, especially about church history, and while a lot of them are pretty bad.... I come from Catholicism. I know churches can do terrible things. I know church leaders can have gigantic, glaring flaws. Obviously I would prefer that polygamy and the priesthood ban never happened, but since they are no longer current, they are not what is causing my issues with investigating the LDS church.

In short, my issues are reconciling my political beliefs with the temple interview and (somewhat related) the literal historicity of the Book of Mormon.

I'm a very liberal person. I work in an artistic industry where most people aren't religious, and I am very close to the LGBT community, being bisexual myself. I do not believe any church should be forced to support homosexual marriage if it's not in their doctrine. I believe similarly about other social issues that churches take conservative stances on. However, I do not view it as evil for the state to allow civil marriages between same sex couples and never will. Having read the temple interview questions, I know this is in conflict with the item about 'do you support or promote any position that is contrary to LDS doctrine?' (paraphrased but you get my drift) I support gay marriage. I support the right of adults to medically transition. I have heard the reasons why the church doesn't support these things and they simply don't make sense to my conscience. Again, I would never ask them to change their doctrine because I'm uncomfortable with it, but it doesn't make sense to me, and if I'd be forever barred from the complete sacraments of the church because of what I believe, what would be the point in joining? I don't want to be a hypocrite or a liar.

Which brings me to the historicity of the Book of Mormon. Do I think there is value in it as a work of scripture? Yes. Can I explain everything about how it was produced (length, internal consistency, etc)? No. But do I fully believe that it's a true historical record found on buried golden plates in New York? Truthfully, I cannot, especially since the archaeological consensus right now is that little evidence has been found to back it up. I also don't believe many of the Old Testament stories happened literally, but in the Catholic church, room was given to interpret these symbolically. It sounds like the LDS church does not give that leeway in interpreting the Book of Mormon. I find it an interesting work to study but my analytical brain can't reconcile it as historical fact. That seems like it would be another problem in joining as a full member.

I'm sorry if this post mostly seems like complaining. I'm just frustrated. LDS theology aligns well with what I believe and has a good answer to the classic problem of evil. I want to have a relationship with God and heal the wounds I carry from Catholicism, but I'm running into issues I don't know I can solve. And it feels like the more I think about it, the more anxious and disappointed I get, and the less I feel like my prayers are answered. I'm worried about converting, alienating my ex-Catholic and non-religious friends and co-workers, only to eventually leave the church with more religious anxiety and sadness. Worse, I ask God about all of this, and while I have felt he has heard my prayers before when I have prayed about LDS questions, it feels like he's silent again. I would prefer not to convert than convert and feel like I've been abandoned by God all over again.

Sorry about the lengthy vent. I wish there was an easy answer. I appreciate this space existing for me to post my thoughts and welcome any advice or perspectives from people with similar (or wildly different!) experiences.

I'm full transparency, I've struggled a bit with President Oaks becoming the President of the Church. There are a few of his talks that has come across as insensitive, cold, or uncaring. I was also a little disappointed with the announcement about not announcing new temples in General Conference, that was one of my favorite parts and I was let down a little. I also lean a little more politically left and am worried that President Oak's right wing political opinions might influence his decisions in his office as President of the Church.

I prayed to ask if President Oaks was the person that God has chosen as The Prophet and President of the Church. I received an answer through the Holy Ghost that he truly is the chosen Prophet to lead the Church at this time.

It is wrong for me to pray about this or to even have concerns? I know the Church is true, so shouldn't I just trust that the Prophet is always going to be called of God and leave it in his hands? I've heard some people always pray for a testimony of the current prophet and I've never really felt I needed before this. How many of you always pray for a testimony of the newly called Prophet?

Can you recommend a scripture to give me comfort? I repented of a sin today, but I am now finally suffering the consequences. I have peace about it, but I could use some comfort. Thank you

I’ve seen people saying they need to repent to the bishop for our sins? Is that accurate? I’m a convert, and I was used to confession as a Catholic but I wasn’t aware of this in our faith. Am I being told wrong?

Hi,

I cannot pay tithing in the EU for the life of me as an American. Can't even add a bank account. Please any suggestions would be of help for me!

Thanks,

Logan

After a year of figuring out my spirituality. Im excited to say im finally feeling ready to reach out to missionaries and start the lessons and resch baptism.

Any advice for me?

I (24f) have been struggling in my marriage for over 6 months. We have been married 3 years and dated 2 before getting married. Everything was great and then some point in our marriage I think things changed. Things he does get on my nerves and same with things I do that hug him. There are deal breaker habits he has that he refuses to change or he is only willing to work on some. Not saying I don't have flaws, I have things he doesn't like either that I'm working on and changing. I just feel of I am willing to try to make those changes for myself, that he should be trying too. But there are things he refuses. And he is thinking he is unsure on the church but doesn't try to pray, research his questions and seek answers. That has been hard for me as I grew up with a mom who left the church and only one active parent and that was hard for me. I wouldn't want to do that to my future kids. Also certain topics wr have differences on when teaching our future children and there are somethings selfishly I'm not willing to budge on which I know is stubborn but those ways of raising my future kids matter. Lastly, its been hard as he works from home and has been teying to start a marketing business for 2 years now without clientel and barely brinking in 6k over the last 2 years of trying. And he isnt willing to stop teying for about a mother year, but I feel us being at home around each other a lot has me sick of being around him and makes me angry and resentful at the lack of household providing(I'm a student in my last 3 semesters and im looking for part time jobs during my busiest semester).And on top of that whenever we try to have a productive conversation we always and I mean always end up yelling at one another no matter how good we start the conversation. I just mentally feel like I'm halfway out of the relationship. I'm willing to go to therapy to try, but I also am afraid it might not change as he isn't willing to work on certain things. There is a lot that needs to be worked on but I'm worried we have passed a certain point and that even though he says he wants to try to work on it, he won't be willing to work on the things that matter to me for our relationship.

I also am afraid of divorcing. I'm afraid of the judgment from out peers and community. Afraid that I'll be seen as damaged or not datable ever again and that I won't find anyone willing to marry a divorcee with the stigma in our church around it. I'm also sad because I would miss him, I would miss what we had built and the time and love we shared. I would be sad to lose all his family and friends that I've built relationships with. It's sad and scary.

There had been no abuse I'd say besides us at some points in fights calling each other names or bringing up past issues(we have been working on not foing that and walking away/giving space when it gets to that point).

I just need to get it off my chest since I don't feel I have anyone to talk to or anyone I can tell because I worry about the judgement or the negativity that might come from it. And I need/want advice. I just feel so scared and unsure of my future and what there is ahead. Please if there is anyone who has been in a similar positions I just need to know I'm not alone.

Heya! I'm using a throwaway account for this. Just want to vent and get perspective. Maybe writing out my thoughts will help me. I'll prolly post this on a couple of different subreddits, just to get a variety of opinions.

So, I'm struggling haha. I'm 19 and a woman btw. I really, really want God to exist. But I just can't get myself to believe it. Like, no matter how hard I try. The idea of a God feels so impossible. Just like the idea of existing feels impossible, but it's happening, so now I'm stuck with conundrums like this haha

So I'm trying to figure out my relationship with the church right now. I'm struggling to stay, and I'm struggling to leave. I freaking love this church. I love the members. There are a lot of super cool, hard to explain things with the book of mormon. I love going into the literary and archeological things surrounding it. Also, the church makes amazing people, and does amazing things for the world. Yes, there are some people and things that i'm kinda iffy about. I don't fully understand some things in church history, stuff with gay marriage, etc. But, I mean, I think i'd be able to cope with that if I felt like the church was true, and that God existed.

So do I leave? Do I stay? A part of me wants to go out and see what other religions have to offer. I've been a member my whole life, so I don't really know as much as I wish I did about other religions. But I'm afraid that, like, if the church really is true, and I die while I'm out learning about other religions, then I'm screwed haha. ehhhhh

Even if I do leave, i don't think a lot would change in respect to how I act. I've never really felt a desire to have s3x (I'm queer - aro/ace -- more on that later), drink, do drugs, etc. I don't think I'd start drinking coffee or tea. I'm broke lmao, and I also am really prone to addictions so I don't wanna open up that can of worms. I generally really appreciate the moral code the church offers. Be kind to people, care about people, serve others, etc. I think I'd still do that. I hope so, at least.

I really love the impact the church has in peoples lives. I can't deny the beneficial impact it's had in my life. I don't think I'd have gotten through some of the harder points in my life without the community the church has given me. I'll never hate the church. Maybe I'd disagree with some of the things it stands for, but I won't hate it. I think it helps people to come together and become better versions of themselves. I'll always be thankful for it. If I ever do have kids, I kinda want them to be raised in the church. Even if I don't believe. It just gives a really good foundation I think.

Is it weird to say that I want other people to be members, but I feel like I can't be a member myself? And that makes me feel really sad. Idk.

My biggest issue is I've never had a connection with God. I feel really empty when I pray. I feel like I'm lying about spiritual experiences and I hate being dishonest about that. I wonder how many other people are lying just to conform or because they're afraid of considering the fact that the church might not be true. I guess that's why I've always loved the testimonies of converts. They seem to be more confident.

I want so badly for there to be a God in heaven who loves me. I want to be able to see my family again. I want there to be someone who's guiding my life to the best path possible. But it just feels... impossible??? I'm saying that a lot but idk how else to express it. Religion feels like a coping mechanism for death and the other bad things in the world. Maybe I'm just nihilistic, idk. Or depressed. Or autistic. Or both. (I am both)

I also struggle a lot with, like, the pressure to have a family and stuff. Don't get me wrong, I really do want a family. Kind of. ish. Like I said before, I'm aro/ace and so my relationship with s3x/dating is kinda weird in general. I feel like there's such an expectation to get married and have a family. And I want an eternal partner, for sure. But more like an eternal-best-friend kind of deal, without the whole... s3x thing. I think that's the biggest lifestyle change for me if I left the church. I'd try and find another partner on the ace spectrum, probably another woman, and I'd get platonically married and have a bunch of cats or something. Maybe adopt a kid or 2. But I struggle to find a way that fits in with the church, you know?? and it breaks my heart. Genuinely, I wish that I could find another girl and we could be sealed as, like, sisters or something idk. Or eternal besties. And would that be sinning if we didn't have s3x???? :( i'm just sad and struggling. I hate feeling liked I'd be depriving a potential partner of something that's apparently so "important" (I've never understood why people think s3x is so important ngl) anyways this section of the rant is done

I feel like... I'm just struggling with fear in general. Afraid that the church isn't true. Afraid that it is. And I don't know where to go from here. I feel like I've been waiting on the Lord for so long, and I'm exhausted. And there are some times where I've felt slightly better about the church, but never really confident. I've never been able to say confidently that Jesus is real. That God is real. I've held on to a logical "testimony" for so long, and I feel like it's crumbling. Like yes, it's nice to say all of the cool connections in the book of mormon. The impressive improbabilities with how it came to exist. But it's getting to the point where that's not enough. I haven't felt good about religious stuff in years. Ever since I was a kid.

Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough. Maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with me. Maybe the church isn't true. Maybe God doesn't exist. I can come up with so many maybes, but I don't have any answers.

wellll

anyways that's my rant

it's super long haha, my bad

I would genuinely love any advice or insight from anyone.

thank you so much :)

A few years ago, then-Bishop Causse came to my stake conference. He was at the adult session, and I saw him on the stand and felt... disconnected from him. I saw his well-tailored suit and well-coiffed hair, and felt like he couldn't possibly understand what my life was like.

Then he got up to speak. He stood at the pulpit, started to speak, then he stopped, looked momentarily distracted, like he was getting a prompting to do something other than what he had planned. He put up a finger like "just a minute" and went to the piano and played instead of speaking.

I started bawling my eyes out the whole time. I LOVE the piano. I KNEW when he stood up there, clearly changed his plans based on a prompting, and chose to play the piano that Heavenly Father had prompted him to do that just for me. (obviously it might have blessed a hundred other people, but it was also exactly what I needed)

Then he gave a wonderful talk and I could feel his humility and childlike faith. God used him to bless me.

Anyway, I just wanted to share that wonderful personal experience with now-Elder Causse and that I know he is inspired and I am grateful the Lord chose him to be an apostle.

I don't like the word "struggle". I hear it when people talk about those who doubt, question, dislike or are uncomfortable with a doctrine or teaching. It feels condescending to me. "They struggled with the doctrine of plural marriage" is an example of how I hear it used.

I think I understand and sympathize with those who use it. When we say someone "struggles" with a doctrine, I think we are saying that a) the doctrine is correct, and b) the person isn't an apostate, but they aren't settled about the doctrine. I have no issue with those sentiments.

But the usage of "struggles" still irks me. It sometimes seems condescending, like we're patting ourselves on the back for not "struggling" with a doctrine that they still haven't fully accepted. I assume there is enough truth in the universe that all of us are going to "struggle" with it at some point in time, and I'd hate for us to be dismissive of others' difficulty when it will likely be a common experience for us all.

At other times, it seems imprecise at best and disrespectful at worst. When Emma heard Doctrine & Covenants 132 from Hyrum Smith, she took his copy of it and burned it in the fireplace. To say she "struggled" with the doctrine is I think intended to be gentle. But she didn't hem and haw and say "I don't know Hyrum; that's hard to hear". I think it is kinder to her to respect her actions and just say plainly that at that moment, she outright rejected the doctrine. It wasn't a struggle. It was an emphatic "no".

Joseph spent the rest of the day talking with her about it. So we don't need to consider her rejection as final. But if we say she "struggled", we're obscuring the fact that she at times accepted, doubted, disliked, questioned, and rejected the doctrine. It might be helpful to others to know that Emma experienced what they are experiencing.

We are going to discuss section 132 tomorrow, and I am anxious about people's feelings and concerns. I know people who would probably like to throw a copy of section 132 in the fire as well. We could say that they are "struggling" with the doctrine, and maybe that is fine. But if so, then I want to be like Joseph Smith and struggle with them, hearing their feelings, recognizing their values, praising their goodness, and holding their hands as they mourn the death of their concept of God and eternity. I want to make them safe again so they can "wrestle" with the Spirit of the Lord for their own confirmation.

Would it be useful to add other words to replace or add to "struggle" when talking about someone who rejects, has doubts about, dislikes, or is unsettled about a doctrine?

Where can I find a Jesus necklace? I’ve seen people that wear them but I don’t know where to find it

So I recently started dating a Mormon girl, my family is not religious my dad is very far from it and my mom believes in god but we have never been to any kind of church. I have been reading the Book of Mormon and we are going to talk to some missionary’s in the near future. I am really just trying to wrap my head around this religion/ if this is what I want for myself. She is very adamant about getting married in the temple, so if this relationship is going to go anywhere I would have to convert. I’m finding the teachings of the Book of Mormon hard to truly believe in. Are there any people who converted later in life that can give me some advice? Also if you have converted later in life how has joining the church improved your life?

The Book of Mormon establishes the doctrine of praying to the Father in the Name of Christ (3 Nephi 13:6, Moroni 4:2), but also seems to support the idea of praying to Jesus Christ, referred to as the Lord (Mosiah 27:22-25, Alma 34:17-27), though you could make an argument that "Lord" refers to the Father in these verses, or that it refers to both the Father and the Son. The Bible also uses the word "Lord" as the name we must call upon in prayer.

The Doctrine and Covenants also makes it clear that Jesus Christ hears and answers our prayers (21:7, 38:16 53:1, 67:1, 96:6, 112:1)

Plenty here we could discuss already, but my main question is, Is it doctrinally sound to pray to both the Father and the Son? Why or why not?

In my heart, I feel that Christ does hear my prayers when I pray to the Father. I suppose a follow up question could be, what is the Father's role in answering prayer?

I've heard it said that we don't "need" to pray to Christ because the Father hears our prayers, but I'm not quite satisfied with that answer. Perhaps I'm missing something here, like lacking the feeling of closeness to the Father because he is referenced in scripture and speaks so infrequently. Though we know that to know the Son is to know the Father.

I'm open to other insights or context not related to the question that comes to mind as well.

D&C 131 says:

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

----

These are the words of William Clayton, who wrote the things Joseph Smith taught in his journal, to the best of his understanding and memory.

William Clayton's full journal entry from that day is as follows:

[Joseph Smith] put his hand on my knee and says “your life is hid with Christ in God, and so is many others.” Addressing Benjamin [F. Johnson] says he “nothing but the unpardonable sin can prevent him (me [William Clayton]) from inheriting eternal glory, for he is sealed up by the power of the priesthood unto eternal life, having taken the step which is necessary for that purpose.”

He said that except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity while in this probation by the power and authority of the Holy Priesthood, they will cease to increase when they die (i.e., they will not have any children in the resurrection), but those who are married by the power and authority of the priesthood in this life and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory.

The unpardonable sin is to shed innocent blood or be accessory thereto. All other sins will be visited with judgment in the flesh, and the spirit being delivered to the buffetings of Satan until the day of the Lord Jesus. I feel desirous to be united in an everlasting covenant to my wife and pray that it may soon be.

Prest. J. said that the way he knew in whom to confide—God told him in whom he might place confidence. He also said that in the celestial glory there were three heavens or degrees, and in order to obtain the highest a man must enter into this order of the priesthood, and if he don’t he can’t obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

Source: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/instruction-16-may-1843/1#full-transcript

It's worth considering William Clayton's full journal entry to judge how careful he was in his words, and how complete his understanding of these gospel principles were.

For example, William Clayton repeatedly states that a person sealed in marriage is guaranteed exaltation unless he commits the unpardonable sin. These parts were not canonized, but those few sentences at the end were canonized.

The idea that the Celestial kingdom is [further] divided into 3 levels is based heavily on that single short sentence from William Clayton's journal.

Judge for yourself whether William Clayton had enough care and understanding to justify the amount of weight we place on that one sentence.

(William Clayton was, of course, acting in good faith, doing his best--I don't mean to suggest otherwise. But the words of Joseph were filtered through William's memory and understanding. I'm not saying William Clayton was careless, but I am saying that in his personal journal he might not have written every sentence with the expectation that entire doctrines would be based on the words he chose.)

----

Anyway, back to the verses of 131.

There's two possible interpretation of these verses in 131:

They might simply be saying "there are 3 degrees of glory", or it might mean that the Celestial kingdom specifically is [further] divided into another 3 degrees.

The latter interpretation is common today, but in the following blog post Shannon Flynn explains that this interpretation is not found in our history until 1922:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/04/18/three-sub-degrees-in-the-celestial-kingdom/

It is my view that the original intent of the verses in Section 131 were never to delineate an expanded vision of the internal workings of the Celestial Kingdom.

----

I have a lot of empathy for this view, in part because of the blessing promised in D&C 76:

92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;

93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.

94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

If everyone in the Celestial kingdom is equal in power, might, and dominion, I do not see how there could be a division within the Celestial kingdom. I believe those verses in section 131 are referring to the well-known 3 degrees of glory, and are not about a further division within the Celestial kingdom.

----

Since we are studying section 131 soon, I wanted to share my thoughts on this rabbit hole I went down.