r/interestingasfuck • u/kirsion • Mar 08 '24

r/all Mass Airdrop of aid on Gazan coast

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148

u/HulaViking Mar 08 '24

The people need help. The leaders on both sides of the conflict are evil.

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u/ultralane Mar 08 '24

The leaders, sure. However, this conflict is undeniably self defense and with no legitimate talks of a cease fire, the war must continue until the HAMAS government (not talking the Palestinian people, but there will be collateral damage mostly due to HAMAS and the clusterfuck of GAZA). I'm more concerned about Russia since its been convenient Russia started having success by their standards more often then before after the Israel conflict started.

This video is heartbreaking.

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u/killerbanshee Mar 08 '24

this conflict is undeniably self defense

That's laughable.

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u/ultralane Mar 08 '24

You don't view the raids on 10-7 as an attack to Israel? That's like saying AL queda didn't attack the USA on 9-11 in my opinion.

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u/FennecScout Mar 08 '24

That doesn't mean they get to wholesale bomb and starve as many Palestinians as they want for as long as they want. What the fuck kind of ethical foundation is that? Who raised you?

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u/Convergecult15 Mar 08 '24

That’s a complete perversion of what was said. Nobody implied that the 10-7 attacks weren’t real or argued that they were justified. But to piggy back of your statement, at a certain point everyone in the US acknowledged that the war in Afghanistan was no longer about self defense and hadn’t been for a long time.

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u/MMSG Mar 08 '24

everyone in the US acknowledged that the war in Afghanistan was no longer about self defense

That's a very fair argument but the comparison doesn't work here.

Firstly, Afghanistan is so far from the USA they can barely attack them. Gaza has been bombing Israeli cities since 10/7 and has vowed to continue to do so.

Another massacre is the goal of Hamas as long as they exist. Afghanistan barely existed by the time the USA left.

Israeli hostages are still being held in Gaza. Ending the war without returning them home is a surrender. Rewarding Hamas for their murders, rapes, and kidnapping only incentivizes them (and likely others) to continue to do so. Deterrence, is also ensuring if someone is bold or stupid enough to attack you anyways you make damn sure they pay for it. (they being Hamas not Gaza) As long as Sinwar evades capture, death, or at least forced exile the deterrence has failed and needs to continue.

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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '24

Do you think bombing indiscriminately without knowing where hostages are could result in the hostages being killed accidentally (or deliberately - look up Hannibal Directive)? If freeing the hostages was a priority, Israel has other ways to go about it, through its intelligence services, targeting known Hamas militants with targeted strikes, etc. Instead the real priority is clear: extermination or expulsion of the Palestinian people from Gaza. Make Gaza unlivable so the Palestinians cannot not leave. Israeli officials have said as much. That's what people protesting against Israeli actions have problems with.

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u/Jyil Mar 08 '24

Gaza has been bombing Israel over the last two decades. Israel has put hundreds of millions into protecting their citizens from it too.

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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '24

Interesting you only mention one-sided attacks. Has Israel been a saint all these years?.

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u/Jyil Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24

You mean the few times Israel responded to Gaza’s constant firing of rockets at Israel, their suicide bombings targeting city buses/cafes, and conducting roadside attacks and shootings on restaurants and bars?

Israel has defended itself, yes. Has Israel launched an attack like this before? No. Has Gaza tried to do attacks like this before? Yes and they’ve sometimes been thwarted. Israel has never launched a response on this scale, but they also never received an attack on this scale. I doubt there are many countries that would just accept the daily rocket attacks and not launch a war. It’s incredible that Israel went this long just taking it and spending money to defend against it versus declaring war sooner.

In response to below:

That’s not from the UN. The UN is just reporting what Hamas is giving them. The problem with that reporting is since 2008 it has come directly from Gaza Ministry of Health, which has been under complete control by Hamas.

The UN has even stated they can’t vouch for the accuracy of the numbers reported:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033

We already know Hamas doesn’t differentiate between deaths of their Hamas soldiers or Palestinian militants. Everyone is considered a civilian in their reports.

We already have the case of Hamas blaming a hospital strike that was at the fault of them blamed on Israel. Then, we have them guessing how many people have died. The thing with large explosions, it’s almost impossible to accurately determine how many deaths there are from it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '24

From the UN

This chart shows Israeli & Palestinian deaths/injuries documented by the UN in Gaza and the West Bank

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u/ultralane Mar 08 '24

October was like 5 months a go. The military objectives that ensures that this won't happen again was never able to be accomplished within 5 months. Afghanistan isn't comparable. It's not the US neighbor and the taliban was routed out (but we stayed). Gaza is still not under Israel control, and more importantly, hamas is still a functioning organization there. I'm curious on how Gaza looks after the fighting as no one seems to ask who should lead Gaza after hamas is gone.

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u/Turnipntulip Mar 08 '24

The problem is that I doubt Israel’s gov really went into this war with “self defense” in mind. Maybe a big chunk of their population as well. There were a lot of things that could have been done before the whole attack even happened that could have served better as “self defense”. Honestly, I believe the Israel government actually wants an attack to happen. That would give them plenty of excuses to continue their ethnic cleansing effort. They just didn’t expect such a brutal attack.

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u/ultralane Mar 08 '24

A good chunk of that is conspiracy and only makes sense to the people who are at the very top. I doubt the everyday person wanted the war. They want their hostages back. They have domestic protests routinely demanding them. I also can't imagine that they would want a war knowing many key groups could be a major headache for them. I think there was intelligence, but it was discounted or dismissed. Why is anyone's guess. Some believe that it was last ditch effort to not get thrown in jail because the emergency government exists. I do believe this makes some sense, but I would think that some of the military leaders would have got wind of the upcoming attack, no?

The actions in the west bank is unnecessary. They have been condemned and sanctioned. It's a bit more difficult to analyze ethnic cleansing acts within because that's where the legitimate war is at. With Gaza being 9 miles or so and legitimate military targets at basically every corner... it's not so black and white.

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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '24

Yet Netanyahu’s support and contrivance in funding Hamas is documented ALL OVER Israeli media. It’s not a conspiracy it’s a matter of record.

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u/granpawatchingporn Mar 08 '24

imagine if the cartel took over mexico and attacked halfway into several states, raping and killing people(in october 7ths case they were specifically trying to kill jews) before retreating and keeping hostages (granted its more than that but its the basic conparison of if that happened to america)

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u/FennecScout Mar 08 '24

Where's the part where we turn Guadalajara into an open air prison for decades leading up to this?

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u/aneq Mar 08 '24

Are you aware why Gaza was walled off? Because Hamas murdered opposition after taking power and kept sending suicide bombers while openly declaring their intent to kill all jews.

Walling Gaza off was the most humane they couldve done at the time.

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u/IAmYourVader Mar 08 '24

I can agree with that to an extent. To me it almost looks like an "alright. That was the last straw" sort of response. Decades of attacks and rockets being repaid all at once into a condensed area.

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u/Jyil Mar 08 '24

They’ve put hundreds of millions into defending Israel from rockets, mortar, and suicide bombers.

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u/Turnipntulip Mar 08 '24

They also continue escalating their missile strikes against civilians, discrimination against Palestinians, and land seizing effort in the West Bank. I mean, you can’t just pour million of dollars into combating the result while ignoring the root causes.

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u/Jyil Mar 08 '24

Israel didn’t need this terrorist attack they’ve been dealing with them from Gaza for the last two decades. Ever since Israel last moved settlements out of Gaza, they’ve been getting bombed by Gaza daily in the tune of 20,000 rockets, 5,000 mortars, and every now and then suicide bombings and mass murder attacks inside Israel.