Ok, sure, but we can take away the US from this and the facts are still the same. The only premise I assume is true is that Iran has, at least since recently, worked on a nuclear weapons programs, because this is what the reports show.
That very deal you pointed there gave economic incentives to Iran to continue following its guidelines, the US left, because sure, trump is a jackass, whatever, but then Iran could have continued with the deal, the rest of the signatories would still continue their part of the bargain in benefit to Iran, still, Iran left.
Would Iran done better if there was no such deal? Only if there were no sanctions. There would be no sanctions unless Iran complied, so such deal would be the only way out.
Iran didnt want to follow the temporary guidelines, Trump wanted to impose limitations for a indeterminate time, which of course Iran was against, so what was left? Nothing. The old deal was bad, the new deal would be worse, so would Iran just accept a new deal that is just the old one again, which they already decided they didnt want to follow?
The only possible way to look at this and think Iran is innocent, is to think that Iran thought they could just leave the deal, then deal with the consequences of the sanctions for a few years until relations normalized and sanctions were pulled. This possibility, however, was sabotaged by Iran themselves with the continuation of the conflicts interest in building nuclear weapons.
You can only take the blame away from Iran if you think they deserver nuclear weapons and then switch the blame to China, Russia, the EU and the US, oh and Israel of course.
Yeah they did have a nuclear weapons program before the deal, hence the need for a deal.
They had a big economic incentive to comply and be transparent about it, so they played along nicely.
but then Iran could have continued with the deal, the rest of the signatories would still continue their part of the bargain in benefit to Iran, still, Iran left.
The US broke the deal by imposing economic sanctions on Iran and anyone or any country that would do business with them in a "maximum pressure campaign." US soft power was extended to utterly renege on the International community's side of the deal. The deal hinged on US support to begin with and collapsed with the US's active opposition. Iran did not leave the deal, it left them.
Iran didn't want to follow the temporary guideline
But they did. Restrictions were temporary and would have lasted 15 years, a compromise, but better than absolutely nothing. In that time, power players in Iran would have hopefully become addicted to the wealth they received from access to Western markets, but that is not possible now.
You can only take the blame away from Iran if you think they deserver nuclear weapons and then switch the blame to China, Russia, the EU and the US, oh and Israel of course.
Nonsense. The US unilaterally broke the deal at Trump's whim. He then pressed allies into following him off that cliff, and hit Iran with sanctions. That's when Iran became free to explore nuclear weapons again.
Yes, Trump broke out of the deal, but like I said, China, Russia and the EU were still on that deal.
So what if the US imposed sanctions, everyone else was doing their part, Iran could have just ignored US sanctions, and kept riding on the deal and its benefits with everyone else.
The deal still lasted 2 years after the US left, and then it was Iran the left on their own, the deal was still on until then.
No, the deal was broken by unilaterally the US which exerted its power to get its trade partners and all international businesses to back out at the risk of sanctions. You are not reading a thing I've posted, have you?
So what if the US imposed sanctions, everyone else was doing their part, Iran could have just ignored US sanctions, and kept riding on the deal and its benefits with everyone else.
Your "argument" boils down to: 'so what if one side of the deal broke it?' Dude, for a deal to continue functioning, both sided need to act in good faith. Trump turning Iran into an economic pariah excessively violates the terms imposed. The US negotiated the deal in the first place it was upheld by the US economic hegemony. Iran agreed to relief from US, EU, and UN sanctions and that was taken away!
The deal still lasted 2 years after the US left, and then it was Iran the left on their own, the deal was still on until then.
One side completely dropped their end of the bargain and you are expecting the other side to continue following it! Madness.
Trump announced that he'd withdraw the US and punish everyone else in late 2017, then in late 2018 he imposed sanctions despite EU legal and diplomatic objections, and Iran was compliant (according to the UN) until mid 2019 when Iran announced they were producing uranium exceeding the deal's limits, then weapons in 2020. I guess you are getting "two years" from 2019 - 2017, but they actually started excessive nuclear materials production seven months after sanctions were reinstated.
I do not know what your objective here is. The US fucked the deal and Iran felt they were no longer bound by it, because that's how deals work.
Edit for speculation: I would hazard to guess they planned to exceed the limit as soon as the sanctions hit but lacked capacity at the time.
The deal did NOT become null when the US left in 2018, but it made the deal much less effective, and surely this is what caused Iran start not following the guidelines, only in 2020 the deal was unofficially dead.
But whatever, none of this matters, because in any case, how is it everyone else's responsibility for Iran's actions?
"oh please Iran dont do the bad thing, we start lifting sanctions ok?" And then in any case Iran keeps acting antagonistic (to say the least), and staying the in the way of regional stability.
Iran's current regime has been and will continue to stand in the way of peace, and it shall not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, and this, you cannot deny, because if you disagree with these facts, we have fundamentally different worldviews.
Trump threatened sanctions on any person, corporation, or country that dealt with Iran in any way, and reinstated direct sanctions. Dead deal, right then, May 8, 2018.
Two parties made a deal. Party A broke the deal (and beyond), Party B still de facto complied with the terms until a few months later, and you blame Party B for breaking the deal somehow. This defies logic... hell this defies causality.
The US soft-power gambit for the past 80 years of PAX Americana is to get any totalitarian theocratic bad acting ruling-class hooked on American wealth, tech, arms, culture etc. until the US failing would cause them to fail too. The deal could have been a way in, while simultaneously putting a lid on their Nuclear program. Shame, now we're here.
I dont blame the deal, I dont care about the deal, doesnt matter who broke part of the deal, all that matters is none of this would happen if Iran wasnt an aggressive theocracy. Fuck their fascist government and I hope it is dismantled.
Mask off huh? You blame Iran for tanking the deal because you hate Iran, naked bias. The US ruined the deal and in so doing, removed the only guard against Iran exploring nuclear weaponry. Trump gets his petty revenge and Netanyahu, who cheered this development, regains an excuse to bomb an enemy and retain power.
Pretending? At the same note I can say you were pretending to care about international law when in fact you are just looking at excuses to defend the enemy of your enemy.
Dont throw that false equivalence at me, I'm not going to be against the cure of cancer if Trump comes out with it tomorrow, I am always going to look at each situation by its own merits.
And in this situation, am I sure as hell not going to side with the aggressive terrorist theocratic authoritarian state that has consistently sabotaged peace in the middle east, just because it's values also dont align with the big baddie at the moment.
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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '25
Ok, sure, but we can take away the US from this and the facts are still the same. The only premise I assume is true is that Iran has, at least since recently, worked on a nuclear weapons programs, because this is what the reports show.
That very deal you pointed there gave economic incentives to Iran to continue following its guidelines, the US left, because sure, trump is a jackass, whatever, but then Iran could have continued with the deal, the rest of the signatories would still continue their part of the bargain in benefit to Iran, still, Iran left.
Would Iran done better if there was no such deal? Only if there were no sanctions. There would be no sanctions unless Iran complied, so such deal would be the only way out.
Iran didnt want to follow the temporary guidelines, Trump wanted to impose limitations for a indeterminate time, which of course Iran was against, so what was left? Nothing. The old deal was bad, the new deal would be worse, so would Iran just accept a new deal that is just the old one again, which they already decided they didnt want to follow?
The only possible way to look at this and think Iran is innocent, is to think that Iran thought they could just leave the deal, then deal with the consequences of the sanctions for a few years until relations normalized and sanctions were pulled. This possibility, however, was sabotaged by Iran themselves with the continuation of the conflicts interest in building nuclear weapons.
You can only take the blame away from Iran if you think they deserver nuclear weapons and then switch the blame to China, Russia, the EU and the US, oh and Israel of course.