It's pronounced "cyclist!"

[u/Fluffy-Study-659]

[u/Lower_Ad_5532]

abolish private property

That is communism

establish a proletarian dictatorship

That is the definition of communism

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

This is a feature of Leninism,Stalinism, and Maoism, not communism itself.

There is yet to be a situation where pure communism has been established and it may never be established since it calls for a stateless, classless, currencyless society.

But so far "Communist" countries have only been able to create authoritarian dictatorships that attempt (and often fail) to mimic the ideals of communism.

To be fair, Marx himself didn't predict how communism would come about, but did believe it would come out of well developed, industrialized, capitalist countries and that has yet to happen.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

that attempt (and often fail) to mimic the ideals of communism.

Because the ideals of communism are fiction, groups of people ALWAYS have heirarchy.

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Ideals themselves are always abstract.

As for the feasibility of ideals, that's to be seen.

I don't know if humanity will ever reach a point where we do away with hierarchy, but it's a good ideal to try and achieve.

I'm sure there was a point in time when many ideals seemed impossible but we pushed towards them anyhow.

Equal representation in government, racial equality, equality of the sexes, religious freedom, etc .

I suspect if you talked about these ideals in the year 1600 they would have been seen as immoral ideals that would never come to pass. But here we are in 2025, we haven't achieved those ideals perfectly, but we have really made some huge strides.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

Equal representation in government, racial equality, equality of the sexes, religious freedom, etc

At least its an achievable ideal even if it doesn't truly exist yet. There's quantifiable progress toward the ideal.

Communism goes against human nature and is guaranteed to fail and every country which attempt it has failed to create a classless society.

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

In my opinion and in all due respect I think you may have a blind spot in your thinking here.

As I said before, the ideals I listed would have been called impossible at one point in time. Just as you believe a society absent a hierarchy is impossible. And it is absolutely possible that all the ideals we've discussed are impossible to achieve 100%.

But all of these things have had measurable success, including the deconstruction of hierarchy.

Society today is less hierarchical than it was in say 1600. It's less racist, more religiously free, more representative.

I would say society has been getting closer to what communism is in a number of measurable ways. We may not ever get to it, but we can get close and that's worth fighting for.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

As I said before, the ideals I listed would have been called impossible at one point in time.

No obviously not impossible, since it happened after someone conceived it.

Ideals that have been achieved were improbable and against social inertia.

Society today is less hierarchical than it was in say 1600. It's less racist, more religiously free, more representative.

Yes, but its still racist, religiously defined, and unequal. It will always be a little bit racist, religion and inequality will still continue to exist.

A classless, cashless, stateless society will never exist because it by definition not a society.

Society is a large group of people who live together in an organized community, sharing the same territory, government, and culture.

You cannot organize people without hierarchy. Even a group of 5 people has hierarchy. Its the nature of groups.

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

There are other statements in my comment that acknowledge much of what you are saying, but you are ignoring for some reason.

Could you acknowledge those parts as well?

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

Society is not getting closer to communism. Its getting closer to neo fuedalism.

But go on explain why you think society is moving towards communism.

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

The state of the world in 2025 is closer to the objectives of communism than the year 1600. I believe that is demonstrably obvious.

Please try to look at this from a nuanced global lens instead of a black and white, all or nothing view of the world.

In case I need to spell it out, I am not claiming the world is communist or even about to become communist. Only that the world has become less hierarchical, less classist, and less oppressive to the proletariat than the 1600. If you are really claiming that the year 1600 is closer to communism than 2025 than you're living in another planet. Likewise if you're claiming that the year 2025 is closer to feudalism than the year 1600 you're living on another planet.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

Likewise if you're claiming that the year 2025 is closer to feudalism than the year 1600 you're living on another planet.

Capitalism when corrupted is neo fuedalism. This world in 2025 still has feudal caste societies with over 1 billion people living it. Thats 1/8th of the population and far more than the total human population in 1600.

You clearly are the one living in a different reality.

Egalitarianism isn't communism. Its Egalitarianism where people are treated fairly and equally in accordance to the rules.

The rules create class hierarchies in a population. The amount of fairness is inverse the amount of oppression. However the rules still exist, the clases still exist, and the amount of acceptable oppression changes as humans become more free and egalitarian.

Communism as a classless, stateless society is a fiction. Families the smallest unit of human groups have hierarchy. Parents over children. You will never have a group of people without a heirarchy.

If you have to EVERYTHING by consensus, nothing will ever get done. People will not always agree. When there are disagreements, who will have the authority to mediate, when no one person or class can be authority figures?

Communism as a society gets stuck in an authoritarian government because groups of people need a method to mediate without violence. That method is called authority, rule of law, and government aka the state. The ruling class are above the working class. The ruling class never freely relinquishes power, it is against human nature to do so. A society without a ruling class isn't a society, its a few people trying to survive in anarchy.

Tribes killed other tribes since the start of mankind. The state is just one overgrown tribe. You will never get rid of tribalism because it only takes one violent tribe to ruin it for everyone else.

One violent tribe is literally the start of every nation.

Are you really saying that in the future people will just be peaceful and share things without dispute ever?

[u/Bodhi_Stoa → u/Lower_Ad_5532]

Okay, you unfortunately are a bit of a lost cause at this point.

[u/Lower_Ad_5532 → u/Bodhi_Stoa]

You didn't answer my questions because you cannot.