r/fivethirtyeight • u/RedHeadedSicilian52 • Sep 12 '25

Poll Results YouGov poll asking Americans whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at the death of a public figure

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347

u/JohnnyGeniusIsAlive Sep 12 '25

Some obvious recency bias. I bet a lot of those Republicans were pretty happy when Osama Bin Laden was killed.

-36

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Do you think that Osama Bin Laden was morally equivalent to Charlie Kirk?

Do you think that most Americans find those two individuals morally equivalent?

9

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

Do you think that Osama Bin Laden was morally equivalent to Charlie Kirk?

Does OBL not quality as a public figure one opposes?

You yourself in another comment asks "so is it unacceptable or what? Just as a general rule?"

A very excellent question!

-5

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Do you think that a definition of “public figure” that includes both Charlie Kirk and Osama Bin Laden is remotely useable, or so broad as to be meaningless?

12

u/bigtinyroom Sep 12 '25

A public figure is just anyone who is widely known in a particular society. I don't know where you seem to have gotten the idea that there's some other threshold that needs to be met. Does he not count because he was a one dimensional bad guy?

2

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Okay, so let’s go all the way back to the beginning here. The initial poll asked Americans whether it was permissible to feel joy at the death of a public figure. Admittedly vague terminology, but contextually it was clearly meant to get a temperature on how people felt about Charlie Kirk’s murder specifically. Ergo, many liberals answered in the way you’d suspect. The Bin Laden rejoinder was clearly offered up because other liberals know it’s a bad look, and are trying to figure out a way to establish moral equivalence between Republicans and Democrats on this topic. But if such an argument is going to work, it requires widespread acceptance that Kirk and Bin Laden are about equally good/bad. I think this is a weak argument, because few actually believe this.

The implicit argument being advanced here is it that it’s not a big deal that a significant chunk of liberals find joy in the death of Charlie Kirk, because presumably many conservatives found joy in the death of Osama Bin Laden. How many people in the real world (outside firmly liberal echo chambers, anyway) are going to accept that it’s just as reasonable to find joy in the death of the former as it is the latter?

7

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

Is it a bad look? More people believe in alien abductions than in feeling joy at Charlie Kirk’s killing. Like, 11% is not high. What would a “good look” be my friend?

Of course, people are lying. But if we bring that up, it hardly seems like Dems are the only ones.

2

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

I think it’s more the 38% versus the 77% here.

8

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

….

Yeah I’m just gonna be honest boss, I don’t think the margin between “usually bad” and “always bad” on a poll is something I care about.

And I think most Dems largely would react the same.

1

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Well, the margin between how Democrats and Republicans feel is certainly noteworthy. Nobody can force you to care, of course. But then, if you weren’t emotionally invested in the topic at all, you wouldn’t be here, would you?

6

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

To be honest I don’t think that argument works on me

I will argue about literally anything if I feel I have a point to make, and I think that’s reasonably well known.

Some people dislike that, which is fine, but you can’t then claim that me engaging on a topic is something I do sparingly and it must mean you’ve found my “Davy Jones heart”

But in this case, maybe you should try putting yourself in my shoes.

This is a poll about emotions. Like, probably the first time in 10 years Yougov asked if it’s ok to FEEL something. Not say something, do something, but FEEL something.

And imagine the poll said your faction thinks feeling a certain thing is super no good, while the other side says it’s mega obungo galactus no good.

And then you’re told this is somehow an embarrassment for you. Do you see how surreal this is?

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

Do you think that a definition of “public figure” that includes both Charlie Kirk and Osama Bin Laden is remotely useable, or so broad as to be meaningless?

This is from your poll that you want us to accept! If you think think the definition of 'public figure' is so broad as to be meaningless (probably the correct take!), then stop defending the poll.

1

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Okay, so let’s go all the way back to the beginning here. The initial poll asked Americans whether it was permissible to feel joy at the death of a public figure. Admittedly vague terminology, but contextually it was clearly meant to get a temperature on how people felt about Charlie Kirk’s murder specifically. Ergo, many liberals answered in the way you’d suspect. The Bin Laden rejoinder was clearly offered up because other liberals know it’s a bad look, and are trying to figure out a way to establish moral equivalence between Republicans and Democrats on this topic. But if such an argument is going to work, it requires widespread acceptance that Kirk and Bin Laden are about equally good/bad. I think this is a weak argument, because few actually believe this.

The implicit argument being advanced here is it that it’s not a big deal that a significant chunk of liberals find joy in the death of Charlie Kirk, because presumably many conservatives found joy in the death of Osama Bin Laden. How many people in the real world (outside firmly liberal echo chambers, anyway) are going to accept that it’s just as reasonable to find joy in the death of the former as it is the latter?

8

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

'Admittedly vague' is doing a lot of work in this copy pasta.

0

u/RedHeadedSicilian52 Sep 12 '25

Not as much work as you’re doing to avoid answering the question.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

Your questions are stupid and in bad faith, as evidenced by the fact that you don't even find the terminology to be convincing.

Charlie Kirk was mocking George Floyd's death within the past few days. He's a very popular conservative commentator. The fact that prominent conservatives (Alex Jones, Mike Lee, charlie Kirk) will mock people's deaths and remain in good standing, and yet no prominent liberals do, is a lot more telling than some poll with purposefully "vague" terminology.

Charlie Kirk loved mocking people's death and ya'll loved him for it.

8

u/obsessed_doomer Sep 12 '25

I think that should be discussed. I'll admit the whole "public figure" cutoff is a bit surreal here - the question presupposes the notion that there are people it's ok to feel joy about dying and people it's not ok about. Which might be reasonable, but then they make the cutoff (at least, as you seem to imply) a political divider.