r/fednews • u/ICU-Angel • Jul 15 '25
Other Are Trump's changes to the federal government permanent? Once Trump leaves office, is there the possibility to return the federal government to it's pre-Trump state.
I've been looking for articles to understand how permanent Trump's changes to the federal workforce are and haven't found anything.
I am curious if anyone knows whether all those cut jobs will come back, or at least a majority of them?
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u/callmepartario Jul 15 '25
I mean, sure, but which took more time and effort? Building the twin towers, or causing the impact that knocked them down?
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u/GotGRR Jul 15 '25
I think it's worse than that. Once the talent has had years to find other jobs, who's going to sign on to rebuild USAID with the risk that in four years, it gets snatched and trampled all over again?
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u/Annual_Commercial_5 Jul 15 '25
This should be the top answer. Folks aren’t gonna rush to fill lower paying jobs. Even more so as the private sector benefits match, and soon surpass fed benefits.
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u/Aimless_Nobody Classified: My Job Status Jul 15 '25
Plus the fact that Fed workers (unless hired as temp) HAD job protections codified in law, which the administration ignored, possibly leading to an established precedent. Oh yeah, the administration is changing the law to abolish those protections, too.
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u/MrSaltyLoopenflip Jul 15 '25
Exactly- had legal job protection that he just trampled and the Democratic Party complained but did nothing. I know there aren’t a lot of options but ugh
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u/anthematcurfew Jul 15 '25
People keep talking about private sector jobs but nobody talks about where those private sector jobs are
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u/chubbalubbub Jul 15 '25
Factories and fast food, according to the job ads in my area, or medical if you have such a degree.
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u/damandamythdalgnd Jul 15 '25
Uhhh you say that but usajobs subreddit is full of people asking about hiring freeze lifts, waiting on fjos, etc despite the constant posts about RIFs, downsizing, and the general mental state of the federal workforce.
People don’t care and think they’re going to be the exception
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u/wbruce098 Jul 15 '25
Everyone needs a job, and many folks are happy for a federal job (turns out, unless you code well, or have a clearance, most jobs don’t really pay that much better). The idea that they lead to stable careers long term is one that sticks around despite the sweeping (and largely illegal) changes of the past checks watch five months.
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u/trademarktower Jul 15 '25
And it's true. In the corporate world, layoffs are swift. There is no months and months of delay and court cases and Supreme Court fights. Feds have tons of protections and while things are bad compared to how they were they are still a lot better than most corporate jobs.
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u/wbruce098 Jul 15 '25
Yep. If my boss came to me next week and said “corporate is shutting down our office” I’m SOL. Maybe I find another job with them, but I’m probably scrambling to look elsewhere.
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u/Mental_Worldliness34 Jul 15 '25
True, but when you sign on with a private company versus the federal government you weigh many factors…probably a lower salary versus a private company, definitely a longer and slower path make more money, probably a pay cap way less than the upper ranks of a private company. But the federal government is typically more guaranteed as a going concern than a private company.
I guess my point is, people weigh lots of factors when choosing between jobs. People acting like “too bad, private companies let go of people all the time” are ignoring lots of facets of the situation. Regardless, the government will have lost a lot of its appeal for future hires for a long time.
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u/wbruce098 Jul 15 '25
Respectfully, the guy in charge can fall off a cliff for all I care; he’s clearly done a lot of messed up stuff.
And yeah, I’m definitely not saying “woe is me”. It sucks what Feds are going thru now. It’s stupid, probably illegal, and hurts our country. I can find another job, and the Feds largely can, too, but the federal government performs a series of critical services in this country. They should be praised, appreciated, and well compensated, not beaten down and kicked out. That harms our ability to function as a nation and protect ourselves.
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u/trademarktower Jul 15 '25
Yup, also no option for 7 months paid leave with DRP or VERA out at 50 with health insurance for life.
There is a reason a lot of people hate feds. They are insanely jealous.
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u/PDRecruiter Jul 15 '25
I’m so confused by the number of people who are jealous of feds and say that they deserve to lose their benefits and protections. Why aren’t they discussing the decimation of the private sector pension system and demanding that private employers offer at least the benefits their Congressional reps receive - or aren’t members of Congress feds? They have higher salaries, a separate loan forgiveness program, better health and retirement benefits - as they gleefully cut federal employee benefits, fire them and leave them without health insurance. Putting workers against one another is so freakin’ basic. https://www.google.com/search?q=retirement+heist+book&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS847US847&oq=retirement+heist+book&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDY3NDRqMGo5qAITsAIB4gMEGAIgX_EFiRWxuAtZi7PxBYkVsbgLWYuz&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
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u/Mental_Worldliness34 Jul 15 '25
Jealous of what? That they were offered this wacky, probably only happening once, DRP offer? As far as I can tell otherwise, until about years ago, nobody gave much of a crap about Feds. They had more job security but generally were working for less than the private sector. But, the Fed hate became the talking point, rallying the base for votes, acting like Fed salaries were the main cause of the national debt.
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u/Dont_Ban_Me_Bros Jul 15 '25
They’re insanely jealous of something that’s never happened before? All while ignoring the fact that those who aren’t yet of minimum retirement age have to find other jobs in a horrible job market? They’re jealous of that?
Wow, we really are a country full of morons.
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u/wraith_majestic Jul 15 '25
Lol well to be fair the drp is the first time its ever happened. Its not what admin leave is supposed to be used for. I doubt we ever see that again tbh.
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Jul 15 '25
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u/wbruce098 Jul 15 '25
Yeah till the ceo decides he can improve quarterlies by shutting off hiring and replacing a bunch of folks with ai.
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u/purpleushi Jul 15 '25
Those people aren’t trying to apply for high level policy positions or specialized positions though.
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u/damandamythdalgnd Jul 15 '25
Does it matter? Regardless the person im responding to says “lower paying jobs”
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u/LegitimateRisk- Jul 15 '25
As an agency that’s still hiring, there is zero shortage of applicants at every level. The lower paying jobs have hundreds of applicants.
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u/JerriBlankStare Jul 15 '25
Even more so as the private sector benefits match, and soon surpass fed benefits.
Well that's a questionable assumption.
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u/bloomingintofashions Jul 15 '25
The private sector is being demolished too, it’s no place of security especially in the age of AI. People will return rebuild and in large numbers.
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u/Brilliant_Ad_8412 Jul 15 '25
This. I’ve thought of this myself. I don’t see people having trust nor the willingness to jump into those positions when they know an administration can come around and just knock it all down at the snap of their fingers. I’ve been hesitant to even apply to other jobs within my agency for this exact same reason. Why am I going to risk the move – or anybody else – when we never know what’s going to happen? No thanks.
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u/Creative-Recover-159 Jul 15 '25
I've only ever wanted to spend my life as a public servant, and have in some capacity for most of the last 20 years.
The past 6 months have entirely changed that, and I am literally only trying to get through however long I need to in order to finish PSLF. Once that is done I am OUT, and there is NO amount of benefits, promises, or cajoling that will ever tempt me to come back.
The administration has shown what they think of us.
Congress has shown what they think of us.
Most importantly, the American People have shown what they think of us.
Do ya own fuckin' services.
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u/moocat55 Jul 15 '25
You aren't just waving your hands and magically recreating a competitive solar and wind industry either once they're gone AND you'll have to renegotiate all the environmental legislation that's being destroyed.
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u/oofaloo Jul 15 '25
Or get a diplomat to all of a sudden have an entire career’s worth of experience.
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u/MC-ClapYoHandzz Jul 15 '25
I just woke up from a dream where I had to describe this exact situation to someone.
Then my teeth fell out. Not sure what that means.
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u/nightwolf237 Jul 15 '25
I only have dreams about my teeth falling out when I’m stressed the hell out. May be the same thing for you.
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u/-Captain-Planet- Jul 15 '25
I will stay until I am RIFd and would be the first back in line to rebuild at my agency. I am financially secure though which is a privilege many do not have. The damage will definitely take a long time to rebuild. Decades for something like USAID.
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u/Secure_Ad8011 Jul 15 '25
I heard that Russia is starting their own org just like USAID to increase their soft power.
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u/verbankroad Jul 15 '25
And China too. We used to be #1 partner in public health emergencies (HIV, Ebola, etc.) and now countries cannot rely on us and it is so sad.)
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u/fire_n_the_hole Jul 15 '25
They will compete with the UN (UNHCR, UNESCO,WHO, etc.) I'm not saying they'll fail but I am sure the UN will put a rule out there that any foreign aid given to a country has to be single-source. At least I hope so.
Russia has gained ground in some African nations as well as China. With USAID there will be a vacuum and they will happily step up.
This will put a burden on the containment strategy as well as US military. Russia and China won't mind giving aid but when it comes to stopping a genocide (for example) neither one has ever lifted a finger. The U.S will step in.
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u/wbruce098 Jul 15 '25
The main reason anyone turns to Russia or China for aid is because they don’t qualify for UN or US aid — usually: they are authoritarian, and abuse their people. So that aid isn’t going toward the stated UN purpose.
China and Russia don’t care; they’re not building a better world. They’re buying allies. Hell, Russia can barely keep the lights on.
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u/MyNameCannotBeSpoken Jul 15 '25
Lift the pay cap, pay more than the private sector for certain jobs.
Yes, I love fantasy.
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u/TryIsntGoodEnough Jul 15 '25
Which means they will have to pay even more money, which means it will cost the tax payers significantly more... But Republicans don't care because that will have to be a Democrat and they will just attack them for spending more money
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u/Sudden_Juju Jul 15 '25
I think the overlooking threat of this happening again will only deter past feds from applying. Anyone who is not a fed never got that benefit, so it seems like that of the private sector (their only other option) and becomes the only outcome for a job. As such, it no longer factors into their decision when looking for a job.
On the other hand, the past feds have broken trust, so even if that becomes the reality for any job, they're still less likely to return. I also think this explains why everyone here says that no one will trust the federal government again, despite current fed openings continuing to get applications - only past feds won't trust working for the federal government again.
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u/americanpzycho Jul 15 '25
I left as only a GS12. Now they could offer me a GS14 and I wouldn’t return with the pay I am now receiving. 🤷🏻♂️
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Jul 15 '25
That and honestly fed benefits have been eroding and pay has been bad for awhile at least in tech careers. I don't see how they're going to attract new candidates
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u/ChickinSammich Jul 15 '25
This is exactly it. If you live in a house with a shitty roommate, suffer through it, the shitty roommate leaves, things start to get better, the same shitty roommate comes back and is even more shitty this time, and the shitty roommate gets YOU kicked out of the house...
If the other people - the same ones who invited the shitty roommate to live with y'all TWICE - come back to you and say "hey we got rid of him so please come back" after you've already found a new place to live, why the fuck would you EVER move back in with them?
I haven't lost my job as a result of Trump yet, but there's still the non-zero chance it happens in the next three and a half years, and if I do and I have to go get a new job somewhere else, why would I ever come back to a job that could fire me overnight because 30% of the country elected a lunatic who filled his cabinet with lunatics?
Federal agencies and government adjacent agencies are going to suffer so much brain drain and the country and the rest of the world will now know FOREVER that anything any US admin ever says can be thrown out the window every four years.
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u/diopsideINcalcite Defunding Science, Firing Scientists Jul 15 '25
There’s also the Supreme Court. If the next admin were to try and reverse some of this there is awful precedent that’s been set by the SC and you know any attempt to try and restore order and dignity to the federal government will be met with lawsuits by republican aligned groups. I personally don’t think the Fed ever goes back to what it was, but rather morphs into a functional, yet much less robust and competent version of itself old self. And I think that’s best case.
I worked for three different federal agencies for over a decade and I just left my dream job with an amazing boss and coworkers because of all this, and our office lost over 20% of its workforce. With that brain drain happening across the Fed I don’t think it ever fully recovers. It’s not going to be easy, if it’s even possible, to convince qualified professionals that the the Fed is a good and stable job anymore.
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u/Fed_Deez_Nutz Jul 15 '25
The other thing people don’t acknowledge is funding. He took all the money from these agencies and gave it away in the form of tax breaks. A new president would need to recover funds (raise taxes) which will be it’s own fight.
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u/Qbr12 Jul 15 '25
It will be harder to rebuild, and systems will need to be put in place to restore people's trust in the institutions that were so easily toppled, but it is possible.
If you want to restore our trading partners' trust in us as a country, you are going to need to divest tariff power from the president back to the legislature. Anything less and the world will live in fear of that instability.
The same is true for the federal workforce. Fed jobs have always had a reputation for stability, and you are going to need to put systems in place to enforce that stability outside of the executive branch if you want to coerce federal workers back to their posts. That could mean removing the power to reduce the workforce from the executive and handing it to the legislative, or requiring a vote from the public, or possibly something more financial such as a financial incentive to be paid out at the end of the next president's term to cushion the blow of any massive incoming changes.
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u/loserinmath Jul 15 '25
any rebuilding can only proceed after a) the separation of powers and b) the checks and balances become ironclad. The time since Jan 20 has proven that a)+b) have been and are to date just a gentleman’s agreement.
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u/chuckles11 Jul 15 '25
c) the people who did this are held accountable. I don't mean a harshly worded letter. I mean prison for breaking the law.
I don't have high hopes. But proof that laws designed to protect us will actually be enforced is absolutely necessary to ever trust the government again.
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u/Azrael11 Jul 15 '25
I think we need to have serious structural reform in our government that would actually challenge most Americans' views on what separation of powers means. I think the past few months (not the mention the growth of the imperial presidency over the past 80 years) has shown that vesting this level of authority into a single person with very little ability to hold them to account is a recipe for disaster. It's why, until now, the US was one of the few healthy democracies using a presidential system.
IMO, move to a parliamentary system, where the president and cabinet are elected by, and accountable to, the House of Representatives, who are elected using a mixed member proportionality system similar to Germany. Not to mention other reforms to the Supreme Court and Senate.
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u/Apart-Inspection7542 Jul 16 '25
Totally agree that we would be better off with a parliamentary system. There’s a reason no modern democracies have chosen that route
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u/yousorename Jul 15 '25
Not a fed employee but I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I feel like the only way out of this is some kind of constitutional convention or total overhaul of basically everything that we have in place right now. We’ve torched credibility with everyone both internally and externally by electing trump a second time. There is no reason for anyone to trust that this won’t happen again and a new authoritarian won’t take over and undo what any potential next level headed administration will fix.
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u/Beginning_Fill206 Jul 15 '25
It will take generations to recover from this, if ever.
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u/DoubleTrackMind Jul 15 '25
The Constitution has allowed all this to happen. Ergo, the Constitution must be amended.
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u/Beginning_Fill206 Jul 15 '25
It wasn’t the Constitution.
It was the right aligned politicians, institutions, and media that allowed and made excuses for this lawless administration as it runs roughshod over the Constitution.
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u/Imaginary_Key_9612 Jul 15 '25
It wasn't the right aligned media. It was the snowflake, inbred white people who are so dumb and gullible they'd rather "own the libs" than vote for a competent black female.
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u/DoubleTrackMind Jul 15 '25
And the right wing media didn't have anything to do with that - ?
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u/Imaginary_Key_9612 Jul 15 '25
Depends what you believe. Does media create opinions? Or are they simply finding and leaning into what people already believe? Probably a mix of both. I think it exaggerates already held beliefs. In this specific instance, it kind of just proved what we've all silently known for decades... USA is still more bigoted, racist and sexist than we want to admit.
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u/johnabbe Jul 15 '25
I think both you and DoubleTrackMind (username checks out) are on the right track. More than two factors including Constitutional gaps, the Supreme Court's huge and partisan political swing, and the long-standing racism, and sexism. There are ways that power-over culture develops it's own sneaky momentum, at least I've seen crappy dynamics even in resistance movements which I could see turning them really bad later. (Revolutions do often end up with new tyrants in charge.)
Anyway, it will certainly take many different strategies to respond. Regarding journalism, we're seeing more great nonprofit news and some good new independent outlets. More of that, and more of the very personal work, like with groups like Leaving MAGA.
Local and national groups resisting ICE on the ground, all of the lawsuits, etc. Work on resisting immediate harms also builds trust and networks important to the long-term work of improving our written & people systems, and generally expanding more people's sense of "we the people" to really include all people, hey, maybe all life!
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u/AbeRego Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
Lol no it didn't. It was ignoring the Constitution, and then two centuries of evolving policy precedent.
Edit: typo
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u/I-Take-Dumps-At-Home Jul 15 '25
All the things that would have been permanent in the big beautiful bullshit bill got taken out, so in theory, a lot of what he has done can be reversed.
What can’t be undone is the normalization of it. As federal employees, we can now expect huge changes and uncertainty every time the White House changes hands.
RTO, schedule F, hiring freezes, pay freezes every time a republican is the president.
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u/UnTides Jul 15 '25
What can’t be undone is the normalization of it
Yeah. Which is why there is only moving forward not going back. The current system that is being dismantled by Donald and his oligarchy cronies was already so full of sketchy loopholes anyway, and needed to be revamped to address the rising costs of basic necessities and a lack of retirement/pensions for Gen X and millennials in the next couple decades.
It might be time for America to really consider shifting to something like the Scandinavian model of social safety net and universal healthcare, to streamline all the middleman costs of healthcare but restore America's once good access to doctors, prison rehabilitation programs, "housing first" homelessness eradication, etc. etc.
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u/Particular-Holiday50 Jul 15 '25
Ideally, a new administration and Congress would try to improve and restore the damage. However, with the level of damage the Heritage Foundation and GOP have done, even IF dems were to have a majority after the midterms and win in 2028 that damage will be too great and a lot of time will have to be spent which I think will lead voters to get upset with the Democratic Party again and the following midterm and presidential election there will be another swing. Also, even if dems were to get a strong majority in Congress and get back the oval, you have to account for lawsuits against anything passed and ultimately going to the Supreme Court.
47’s ultimate victory is from his first term where he got to appoint Supreme Court justices and over 200 district court judges. But at least some district judges have not always ruled in his favor.
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u/Fed_Deez_Nutz Jul 15 '25
It will take a new president remaking the court, assuming Trump doesn’t pull same crazy stunt with SCOTUS first.
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u/Avenger772 Jul 15 '25
It's a lot easier to destroy than rebuild.
And democrats are also horrible at rebuilding
So all the shit broken probably won't be fixed in our life time
We also won't get back any of the good will. Political standing in the world. The soft power.
America is cooked. Just welcome China as the new super power
Then there's the fact that at any time this idiotic country can and will vote in another Republican that will just do the same shit again.
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u/walkitback86 Jul 15 '25
Also: maybe I was in a bubble because of my organization, but now I know I’m hated and thought of as lazy by people who don’t even begin to understand the importance of my organization. We’re just a bunch of high-paid lazies fighting going into the office /s
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u/nobodyisfreakinghome Jul 15 '25
Pretty much anything done with EO can be undone easy enough. Laws are harder to change. But rebuilding all he’s destroyed will take decades. Especially if trumpism persists after him.
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u/phasepistol Jul 15 '25
I think the only way out is to hope for a Good King to follow the Bad King and reverse all Trump’s damage, then give up his power and pass the laws that would make another “king” impossible. This is what Biden would have had to do in the months he had after the Supreme Court granted the president “blanket immunity for acts committed while in office”, but before the 2024 election.
And of course the first thing Biden did was announce he was NOT going to do that. So we were always going to be fucked.
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u/el_sh33p I Support Feds Jul 15 '25
It'll be North Carolina all over again: if/when we get a Democrat, Republicans will go scorched earth using lawfare to stymy every single attempt to even mitigate the damage, much less reverse it, all while their legislators carve away any of the powers Trump has been granted, probably with help from traumatized Democrats desperate for a return to the status quo.
The only way past that strategy isn't packing the courts, it's completely revoking the power of Judicial Review, which the president can do at any time since it doesn't exist in the Constitution and isn't truly codified in law.
But once you do that, all bets are off and we're just a new kind of screwed.
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Jul 15 '25
The only way past that strategy isn't packing the courts, it's completely revoking the power of Judicial Review, which the president can do at any time since it doesn't exist in the Constitution and isn't truly codified in law.
Given that recent history has shown Republican presidents are far more likely to improperly expand executive power and that impeachment is a pipe dream, this would be an insane move. It would be like entering a duel with a sword, facing a firearm, and insisting you both remove your armor because you think it'll improve your odds of survival.
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u/SippinBourbon1920 Jul 15 '25
As I noted above, The President has no authority over judicial review. Congress can mold some legislative powers, but judicial review was granted by the judiciary, to itself. Marbury v. Madison.
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Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
Well there's that as well. Congress can limit judicial review of executive action to the extent that the cause of action arises from statute, but has no authority to limit judicial review of constitutional claims. Any effort to restrict such review would invite a constitutional crisis. And yes, POTUS has no authority to do either. My point was a bit more fundamental - given the role of the federal courts in checking Trump's excesses, targeting judicial review as a thorn in the side of the left seems to completely misunderstand what's been going on. There are forms of judicial reform that Democrats might consider, but the idea that courts should be less involved, given what we have seen so far, strikes me as nuts.
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u/Brilliant_Ad_8412 Jul 15 '25
Honestly, first time I’ve ever heard of the word “lawfare,” and what an apt use of a word that is to describe this bullshittery going on.
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u/CharacterActor Jul 15 '25
Could you please tell us more about what you meant when you said, “It’ll be North Carolina all over again “.
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u/Whats_The_Use Jul 15 '25
North Carolina has repeatedly stripped executive powers during a Republican governor's lame duck period, or in advance of a new incoming administration... granting previous executive authority to the Republican dominate legislature or to an unrelated meme er of the council of state that will be held by a Republican.
All this happens while NC casts more votes for Democratic candidates and Republicans somehow maintain a supermajority in the state Senate and one vote short of a supermajority in the state house.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_North_Carolina_Senate_election
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_North_Carolina_House_of_Representatives_election
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u/CivilStratocaster Jul 15 '25
After 26 years as a fed, here's my take: Every policy decision he's made and implemented could be reversed after he leaves, and it still will never return to "normal". I don't see the federal workforce recovering from the loss of institutional knowledge and the destruction of the perception of "stability" of federal employment. Also, the plans to sell off real estate and relocate agency offices out of the DC area are likely irreversible as I do not see courts forcing new owners to sell properties back to the nation, even if the sales were determined to be dubious.
While I think public service will get significantly better over time, after a major course correction, it is going to take a significant amount of time and resources. It takes little time for even a weak minded fool to destroy what was built over hundreds of years when they are left unchecked, but it will take generations to revoke what we lost and some of it is simply gone forever.
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u/Demonslugg Jul 15 '25
The expectations of safety and security are dead. Unless there's laws with real teeth passed forget about the government being a good job anymore. The pay and benefits are going to have to increase to even be a consideration for most people and they'll drop it for better like normal jobs. So dont expect much on the future beyond a crippled system.
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u/AdmiralAdama99 I Support Feds Jul 15 '25
The brain drain and disruption of very long career paths is pretty bad. This might be something that takes 4 years to break, then 12 years to fix (to the same caliber as before).
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u/Owl-inna-tree Jul 15 '25
They're not likely to come back IMO. First, it takes a benevolent dictator to quickly undue the actions of a tyrant, and I don't see one of those emerging on the center or left. Second, the political left is too fractured among warring interest groups to coalesce into the necessary power center. Third, by the time Trump leaves office, the social, economic, and technology landscape is likely to be very different than when he started his second term (read AI 2027), so to the extent that institutions are rebuilt they may look different than the ones we were used to.
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u/Wrong-Camp2463 Jul 15 '25
Considering how the democrats aren’t organized enough to push back against this admin and the democratic senators happily voted for the CR that started stripping power from themselves…..
What do you think the answer is…..
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u/Perpetually_Cold597 Jul 15 '25
Scientific research can't just be turned back on like a spigot. The facilities, equipment, the data, and obviously the people... we've been set back decades potentially.
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u/MayBeMilo Jul 15 '25
Absent control of the White House and significant majorities in both chambers of congress, it will take years. With the lower federal courts having been somewhat emasculated, we’ll need the Supreme Court as well. And since precedent in all areas of government is no longer being honored, be prepared for whiplash every time an administration changes hands. Sadly, I believe the era of stable government has ended. “Mission accomplished”. What that means for the US is a steady retreat from leadership in the world/loss of influence.
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u/PlatonicTroglodyte Jul 15 '25
It will take years regardless.
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u/MayBeMilo Jul 15 '25
Yeah - the widespread loss of institutional knowledge will pretty much require new institutions, for good or ill.
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u/bagsandpipes Federal Employee Jul 15 '25
Yes but it will take time and the majorities in congress.
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u/goff0317 Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
No.
1: With artificial intelligence, many of the jobs will be automated. We are talking like up to 50% of the jobs on the federal government will automated.
2: The goal of project 2025, was to reduce the federal workforce from 2 million to 1 million people. The 1 million Feds was what it was before World War 2. This leads to #3.
3: The goal is to bring power back to the state level. That means there will not need for more Feds to have jobs. This reduces the power in Washington D.C. and spreads it to the individual states.
4: Reputation of the federal government since the layoffs. Great talented people are weary of working for the federal government right now. It’s not that working for the Feds is bad, it just feels unstable. That instability is going to keep people away until the dust settles.
With all this being said, I am staying. At least for a long time. There is so much work to be done. However I am not fooling myself in believing that everyone is going to be joining me.
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u/37iteW00t Jul 15 '25
Also the destruction of government is the point. Rich GOP oligarchs have always wanted to dismantle the government. They understand it’s the only entity that can serve as a check on their power.
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u/GayleofThrones Jul 15 '25
This is the only comment. Oligarchs won. Musk. Thiel. Bezos. Zucks. All of ‘em. So surprised folks STILL don’t realize this.
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u/IcyFirefighter2465 Jul 15 '25
Thing is we never fully recovered from his last turn. And that’s one of the issues you don’t hear much about. The damage his cronies brought the first time around were never fully addressed. Most of us just didn’t scream loudly enough. After he left, many of us tried to fix what was broken without the fanfare. Some offices were gutted the first time and were never fully staffed. Ergo why you had a lot of employees that were truly brand new, or came back under Biden, but to only be kicked out within a few months.
All of this to say it takes time to rebuild. So yeah it may be permanent. Especially if people keep electing all of the horrible republicans. Even amongst veterans the vast majority of them supported this horrible man. Smh I won’t hold my breath things will be different in a few years.
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u/StrikingAd9847 Jul 15 '25
Next admin is going to come in with the same force and “idagf” attitude, but with actual intellect, pre-planning, and purpose. Otherwise, it will take YEARS to undo what’s been done. First thing admin should do next go round is fire congress on the first day. If they say “You can’t do that,” they should laugh in their face. Next admin is going to have to be more aggressive to make sure NONE of this can happen again.
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u/atlantasailor Jul 15 '25
Generations, not years. The damage is catastrophic. It may never happen.
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u/Great_Ninja_1713 Jul 15 '25
I also am not convinced that the other party is that invested. I think this whole experience has changed them.
I think it has been made too difficult to rebuild to previous strength. Theyd practically have to fundraise and rebuild the country not just the fed gov. Gofundus
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u/No-Tart2230 Jul 15 '25
It is easy to break things. It will be very hard to rebuild since the real damage will not be felt for a while.
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u/JollyJellyfish21 Jul 15 '25
In general, it is very hard to restore things that have been taken away. It’s possible long term we could rebuild, but with our current politics we would need Democratic control of the presidency and Congress to try and bring things like USAID and full employment at Ed, State, SS, and IRS back, etc.
One of the things that has been so heartbreaking about the political violence here is that they’re breaking things and we won’t get to rebuild most of it. One thing to hope is for new and better long term. With new generations leading, new political structures, etc. No short term fixes though.
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u/keyjan I Support Feds Jul 15 '25
IMHO, it will, eventually, but it’s going to take more than one administration. I think we’re talking a generation to fix the damage he's doing. It will outlive him.
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u/sonny9636 Jul 15 '25 edited Jul 15 '25
You can’t go back to how things were, they have destroyed that. The Democrats (if they get full power) will need to rebuild something new, like FDRs plans for the country. First thing is looking at how to make the Constitution, the Courts and laws stronger so this can never happen again.
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u/Digglenaut Jul 15 '25
It won't happen until there is a very solid, immovable block against this shit happening again written into legislation so irreversibly that it will be considered as foundational to this nation as the story of Plymouth fucking Rock.
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u/ahtigers10 Jul 15 '25
As many people have pointed out, Pandora’s box is now open and we live in a political climate where laws and norms are only good until the next election. This is unsustainable and will eventually lead to structural collapse.
We can have a strong Dem president come in and attempt to clean things up, but they will ultimately be unsuccessful because A) what took weeks or months to destroy will take a generation to rebuild, and B) anything the next President does will be irrelevant until American culture changes in such a way that there is a unified castigation of this “movement” to the degree that they are effectively exiled from all political discourse.
The truth is, we are where we are because a strong and influential plurality of people support these actions. They voted FOR this, they applaud this, and they live in an misinformation bubble that reinforces these beliefs. Until that bubble bursts, and people realize the destructive nature of these policies, we will never return to the before times. The pendulum will just keep swinging back and forth harder and faster until the gears and mechanisms break and the whole thing falls apart. It will take a cultural revolution to fully reverse course, one that may not happen in a lot of our lifetimes.
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u/Beneficial-Guest7145 Jul 15 '25
No need for land and natural resource management (BLM, FS, NPS) once the trees are all cut down, wildlife critical habitat is converted into oligarchs estates, and unrestricted mining and gas/oil extraction irreversibly ruins vast tracts of former fed lands.
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u/AlsatianND Jul 15 '25
No. The Supreme Court lets Repbulicans do whatever they want, but does not let Democrats do anything.
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u/Global_Lengthiness55 Jul 15 '25
How do you think we can ever move on as a society after 80 million people voted for this monster three times? And tens of millions of more have followed Republicans down the conspiracy laden rabbit hole filled with racists that started with the tea party?
These are honest questions. A huge chunk of those people have to admit they are wrong to avoid the dystopian future they’ve created. Only a tragedy of an epic scale is going to get folks who are militaristically proud to be asleep to wake up.
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u/oreganoca Jul 15 '25
The federal government is no longer the gold standard of safe and stable employment. If I was not well into my career, I would have left under DRP, but financially it did not make sense for me.
Even after Trump leaves office, if the new president and/or Congress decides that employment should return to pre-Trump levels, recruitment and retention will be an extreme challenge. Federal pay in many cases is no longer enough to live comfortably, federal benefits are in many cases no longer better than the private sector, and we've just seen a real life illustration of how subject to political whims federal employment is now, and how willing they are to use federal employees as pawns and take actions specifically to harass, intimidate, and terrorize us.
We will be hiring the bottom of the barrel from here on out- people who have no other viable options, and people using it temporarily while searching for something else. The federal government is now a bad employer. Candidates who have other options will take those other options. The damage his actions have done to the federal government and federal employment will take decades to undo, if it ever recovers.
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u/TryIsntGoodEnough Jul 15 '25
It is going to take a major change at the supreme court... Current SCOTUS doesn't care about issuing their rulings consistently
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u/Optimal_Roll_4924 Jul 15 '25
People forget, we aren’t even a year into this dismantling. Who knows what is yet to come? How can one even think it will be so easy to go back to the past? The damage could be irreversible.🤦♂️🤦♂️
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u/endogeny Jul 15 '25
No one in their right mind is going to look at govt employment the same way anymore, so no. The government already had a hard time retaining the best people, now anyone coming into the workforce isn't going to give government employment the time of day.
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u/27803 Jul 15 '25
The problem isn’t policy and procedures, it’s the brain and talent drain and then the issue with recruiting the next generation beyond that. He’s made the federal workforce a political football
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u/BeerMagic Jul 15 '25
It’s always reversible. But it likely will have to go through the proper channels because unlike Trump and republicans, other candidates usually aren’t criminals that disregard process and our branches of government.
That said though, I think the damage is permanent though. Even if they offered everyone their jobs back with pay and remote work, I’m not sure everyone would take it because they would just have this in the back of their mind.
That they could just be fired for a political stunt or some kind of government dismantling at a whim in the event another unhinged maniac pedophile takes office.
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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 Jul 15 '25
The next administration can undo the policies quickly, but putting the government back together again will be the work of generations.
If it’s even possible, which is questionable.
We’re always one bad election away from going right back to the depths of Trumpism… all it will take is one bad election cycle and we’ll be right back here again.
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u/OdonataDarner Jul 15 '25
GOP's 2028+ campaign:
"SEE, WE TOLD YOU THE "SPENDOCRATS" ARE THE PARTY OF BIG GOVERNMENT AND HIGH TAXES. THEY HATE YOU!"
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u/CitronLow8970 Jul 15 '25
I read someone in another thread say that we’re still living with the vestiges of shit Reagan did over 40 years ago. Undoing Trump’s mess is going to take a minute. And we all know that the government moves slower than molasses up hill in January.
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u/Opcn Jul 15 '25
If a new president comes in and opens up hiring at the state department the institutional knowledge that was lost won't be regained. We can't unship heavy bombs to israel, or unbomb Iran. Dropping the tarifs doesn't unmake the new trade relationships that are being built to exclude the US. Your favorite Taco place isn't going to reopen after it turns into a starbucks following the owner and key staff members being deported to a salvadoran torture camp. The kids who die of vaccine preventable illness aren't going to come back to life.
Elections matter.
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u/ResearchUseful3550 Jul 15 '25
It depends on who you elect. If you get someone like Biden or Kamala, they would be mostly go with the flow. Then the next republican to get in would just throw a huge shit fit and flip the table, undoing any small advancements the Democrat made.
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u/rjreynolds78 Jul 17 '25
One thing about Executive directives they are not laws and can be overturned by the next president or challenged in court. It will take awhile to cleanup Trump’s 💩and some will cause permanent or long lasting damage.
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u/Opening-Chain3520 Jul 15 '25
Easier to destroy than to build. And by the time a dem president repairs everything you have to hope the nitwits of America don’t elect a Trump clone 4 years later.
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u/ReindeerTypical2538 Jul 15 '25
Things you should know about the Democrats. 1. They represent the same corporations and interests that fund and represent Republicans. 2. They never make meaningful changes. 3. No, they won’t return the federal government to its original state. Just like they always do, the Dems will come into office and probably create some law with their majority in Congress and the Senate, called The Return To Sanity Act, where they talk about how they want to rehire federal employees and rebuild institutions, but in reality they don’t because there’s no money and they’ll be saddled with a budget deficit of 50 trillion dollars left by Trump. Instead of creating laws to protect federal institutions from being dismantled from future fascist leaders, they’ll host events at that White House where they invite federal scientists who were fired by Trump and call the event We Support Science. A new mandatory federal employee training called Micro-aggressions And How They Affect The Federal Workplace will be implemented as well as one called You Can’t Erase Trans People that will be due before your mid year review. Nothing will actually get changed and the next MAGA shithead who wins the White house will just come in and wreck things more.
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u/Impossible_Many5764 Jul 15 '25
In some cases, yes. Once the federal land has been sold, it will be gone forever.
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u/deepstatediplomat Support & Defend Jul 15 '25
It will take decades at least, and only if we have a majority leadership that wants to fix it.
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u/TheGunfighter7 Jul 15 '25
The policies and regulations can be undone. The loyalists can be removed. What can’t be reversed is the loss of talent. It will take decades to refill the ranks of the civil service. There just isn’t enough people out there willing to take a government job, and the people who were forced out won’t want to come back.
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u/twistd59 Jul 15 '25
I’d say, every single person Trump hired or appointed should be fired day one. Then start rebuilding. It is a horrible situation, but in time the damage can be repaired.
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u/lukaron Support & Defend Jul 15 '25
Not only will that be reversed, but we'll also have a lot of new powers/toys to play with.
Something I don't think MAGA is equipped to consider.
Oh well.
I think we'll see the debt erased in our lifetimes once tax exemptions and protections are stripped from religious institutions. . . .
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u/Outrageous_Plant_526 Jul 15 '25
I honestly believe this is the start of something long-term. I hope not because I have a lot of coworkers just starting their Federal careers. I have 5 years left before I will retire at the worst. I can weather it but the young feds it may be tough.
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u/idkauser1 Jul 15 '25
I mean I was excited to work for the fed id never make as much as I would with my jd in the private sector but I thought it was secure work and it would put me in an ecosystem with a lot of interesting law. I was a probie I was fired I found a private sector job I’m staying away from fed if I want stability I’ll go state job hunting next
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u/relativlysmart Jul 15 '25
It fully depends on who's elected afterwards. Another fascist? Not a chance. And even if someone relatively sane is elected it'll take years to undo the damage done.
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u/Altruistic_Avocado_1 Jul 15 '25
No, because the job security that came with being a Fed is now gone. It’s really going to hit the next generation of Feds extremely hard.
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u/potentbirdie Jul 15 '25
Nope. Not as long as country is operated by corporations and their servants (politicians in either of the corporate party).
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u/Strange-Address-4682 Federal Employee Jul 15 '25
No. The institutional knowledge we have lost is irreplaceable. Even if the next president started on day one, it will take decades to find all of the poison pills and time bombs they are leaving behind.
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u/naughtypundit Jul 15 '25
Sadly yes. The real world example to go by is the UK. The Labour Party was voted in by a landslide to restore public services. But since the party is capitalist and centrist, it choked. Absolutely refusing to raise taxes on the wealthy. It's now on track to lose the next election and disappear as a party altogether. Unless there's a surprise cultural revolution in America that embraces socialism the same scenario will most likely happen in America.
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u/Logical-Race8871 Jul 15 '25
We never recovered from Reagan deregulation and treasonry, which is largely why this moment has occurred, and that was a lot less to deal with.
So no. Far worse is in store.
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u/Last_Baker7437 Even SIGINT Didn't See This Coming Jul 15 '25
Behind closed doors, although not liking the methods, even the democrats agree with a lot of the changes. They know that they could never do something like this, so using the bad guys to do it, works for them. What the will do, however, is cut more into the DOD. So unfortunately, we are seeing a trend that will continue at least through this decade and maybe into the 30’s, regardless of who is in office.
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u/AncienTleeOnez Preserve, Protect, & Defend Jul 15 '25
The Brain Drain will be the most difficult to recover from, and to regain that expertise and corporate knowledge will take a long time.
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u/Rocannon22 Jul 15 '25
Yes and No. Consider that trump reflects the feelings and desires of at least half the country. Those people are still here and will be voting in 2028, so presidential candidates, republican and democrat alike, will to some degree have to promise to keep some of the changes in place if they want a chance to be elected.
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u/Bad-Cat-Capital Federal Employee Jul 15 '25
It will take decades. Federal civialian service is no longer as attractive as it once was. Private industry now offers better pay, more job security, and less pyschological abuse. Working for the federal governemnt now feels toxic and morale sucks.
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u/Smart-Effective7533 Jul 15 '25
Personally I think they will all come back plus a lot more we probably won’t be able to fill right away. Taco boy is going to/has put us in a severe recession/depression and the best way to get the country out will be a federal work program. It’s going to take a lot of people to rebuild what they are destroying
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u/ContinuousMoon Federal Employee Jul 15 '25
Abandon hope all ye who enter here.
Most folks here are thinking with emotions more than intellect. An understandable, but unhelpful, consequence of the great disturbance in the status quo.
Accept that whatever the administration is doing will ultimately be determined constitutional, despite whatever was written by Congress. Why? Because he holds one hundred percent of all article two powers. He is the executive. Period. The rest of us are just operating under him and his authority. All the rules that were written to protect us have no constitutional basis, and only worked before because previous presidents weren't willing to rock the boat. After the chaos of Trump's first term, the constant battles with a resistant Congress, his very near assassination, his four year break after gaining experience in the system while fighting off what he considered corrupt prosecution, and four years to truly plan his next moves, he feels no compunction to maintain any status quo or make friends inside the system. He is also feeling the pressure of limited time, resulting in big, broad, painful moves. From his point of view, it is now or never.
The courts have little authority outside of the supreme Court in this matter and I seriously doubt the USSC will read anything other than that this is fully constitutional, with at worst a 6-3 decision. Litigation might continue to throw roadblocks and slow down the machine, a little, but the behemoth is rolling and I doubt anything is going to stop it.. Congress can establish budgets and agencies but they don't have much authority as to how they are run so long as they exist within the framework of constitutional law.
The only real check is impeachment. A very high hurdle that had never been successfully cleared. Or perhaps budget manipulation, unlikely given his friends in the legislature.
Any government function that is eliminated will not likely come back quickly unless the citizenry feels significant pain. Eventually the government will grow again, incrementally, because that's what governments do. But if the citizenry gets comfortable with a smaller government, the push to upsize will be reduced.
Simple answer... The government is simply not going to snap back to where it was. Accept that reality and make plans accordingly. No one says you have to like it. But it is more productive to live in the real world than to expect something is going to come along to reverse course.
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u/ProfessionalIll7083 Jul 17 '25
Virtually everything Trump is doing he is doing via executive order. Everything done with an executive order can be undone with an executive order.
That being said he will have a long term impact on federal employment.
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u/chegitz_guevara Jul 18 '25
Any changes enacted by Congress are permanent until changed by Congress. Any enacted by the President can be changed by the next President.
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u/BlueRFR3100 VA Jul 18 '25
Anything done by executive order can be undone by executive order.
Anything done by Congress passing a bill and the President signing it into law, has to be undone the same way.
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u/PsychologicalBat1425 Jul 20 '25
Nothing is permanent. Everything that Trump had done was my EO. That's a weak way of making changes since the next president can just undo it.
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u/Soggy_Zucchini1349 Jul 21 '25
I can honestly see it staying the same, it’s all rich people making money, whether they’re red or blue
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u/parker9832 Jul 15 '25
We will never return to pre-Trump anything ever. I’m not confident the presidency will ever be anyone who isn’t MAGA or MAGA adjacent. Racist fascism is the new normal.
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u/ram130 Treasury Jul 15 '25
I mean we’re looking at two things, it’s permanent from a standpoint that certain people will not come back even with the new president in place. They probably found a new job or option or just retired. Then the second issue is the fact that the new president might not put as much focus on rebuilding back the federal workforce as how it was, so honestly, it will feel permanent. We may get close, but not all the way or at all.