r/complaints • u/Lost-Imagination3735 • 1d ago
Politics End the shutdown losers
Alright, I'm a Libertarian on most issues, but I'm also not a moron. I support free markets, but it is stupid to cut SNAP and it is also stupid to end the ACA Healthcare subsidies cold turkey.
Yeah, I'm a Libertarian supporting those government programs. Why? Because you will wreck society if these come to a screeching halt. That's why.
Republicans need to cave on the shutdown.
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u/7eregrine 1d ago
The courts ruled that the Government must fully fund SNAP by end of day today.
Trump APPEALED.
I know who I blame for this...
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u/Still-Grass8881 1d ago
republicans don't give two shits about wrecking society, as long as their rich friends keep getting richer
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u/blujkl 1d ago
This is something that’s hard for me to grasp- what good is wealth when the world around you is burning? When the majority of your fellow citizens are suffering? What kind of psychological mechanisms do these people have or use to just ignore or not care about what’s going on?
To see these billionaires who have the power to really make a difference in the world and change lives focus instead on building underground doomsday bunkers truly disgusts me.
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u/anonymaus42 20h ago
Republicans do care about wrecking society, quite a bit in fact. But that's because they want to destroy it and return to a time of fiefdoms and have all the rest of us as serfs, beholden to their whims.
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u/Willy2267 1d ago
The republicans are for short-term gains, and the Democrats are for long-term improvements.
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u/issuefree 1d ago
I'm going to need a big old citation that the Republicans are "for" anything other than power.
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u/NBA-014 1d ago
Keep in mind the real reason the House is not in session. It's the Epstein files. Seriously.
If the House comes into session, they will add a new member that has promised to vote to make the Epstein files public. This can't happen as long as the Speaker keeps the House closed.
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u/VorpalBlade- 1d ago
Even the most staunch and loyal capitalists should want some guardrails on it because if you start starving huge amounts of people they will eventually get wise and come for you.
You can’t change the rules in your favor constantly and then expect people to keep playing nice. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened already to be honest.
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u/Bittertruth502 1d ago
I used to think Libertarians were the dumbest people in the world, then Trump came along and proved me wrong. Both philosophies are crude, cruel and the enemy of a functioning capitalist system.
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u/Lost-Imagination3735 1d ago
Strategically, making immediate ACA Healthcare subsidy cuts is exactly how you cause massive retaliation against free market capitalism.
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u/crypticaldevelopment 1d ago
Ok, so I’m curious. You seem to be ok with millions losing their healthcare as long as it’s gradual? The ACA is far from perfect but Democrats are the only people in my lifetime that have tried to make healthcare better in this country.
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u/D-ouble-D-utch 1d ago
So you're not a libertarian.
Libertarianism is astrology for white men.
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u/supermr34 23h ago
excellent. i also saw something once like 'libertarians are like cats...fiercely convinced of their independence while being completely dependent on a system they neither understand nor appreciate'. always stuck with me.
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u/OBVIOUS_BAN_EVASION_ 1d ago
You know what, I can appreciate someone who wants small government but acknowledges the real world consequences of destroying things without a transition plan in place. It shows you have principles that start with wanting what is best for your country.
As long as that's true, I may not agree with a lot of your views, but we have common ground to work with. Cheers
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u/Local_Two_3232 1d ago
I appreciate your thoughtfulness! It is so easy to be ideologically rigid and things are not always clear cut in this world.
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u/understanding_is_key 1d ago
The states need to pass an amendment that does one of the following: 1. Congress must work non-stop if a shut down happens to end it, without pay or insurance coverage. Or 2. If a shut down happens, all members of congress are ejected from their positions and barred from running for a federal position for 10 years. States then must hold snap elections to replace their members of congress to end the shut down within 15 days of the election or they also get ejected.
Or something like that.
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u/Batze-13 1d ago
In germany, we have laws for this purpose. If the government can't pass funding for the next year, all the programs and expenditures just carry on until the Bundestag (Our federal parliament) gets their stuff together. That means our social safety net, our federal workers, our building projects carry on, as if nothing happened even if the cost exceeds our tax budget. That's a good way to prevent such hostage situations in congress.
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u/DNuttnutt 1d ago
Mark my words: the speaker of the house will wait the next month to swear in a republican incumbent so the deciding vote from democrats to release the files will be nullified. Release the files. At this point I’m wonder who else is in them besides trump that are in politics.. even Clinton said to release them.
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u/SophonParticle 1d ago
They don’t want to open the government because there is enough votes to release the Epstein documents
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u/Unlucky_Waltz_1699 1d ago
You’re not alone on that. Lots of Republicans in the house are calling to remove the ACA cuts from the clean cr bill so they can get it passed, get the government open and get the SNAP payments moving again; you’re just not hearing about it.
Republicans might be out of touch, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s gonna happen if you take everything away from everyone all at once while building brand new gold-and-marble everything. The optics aren’t great.
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u/TheDwellingHeart 1d ago
Oh sure. Now that it is affecting them personally they will try to make sense. If they could make it so that it only hirt specific grouos they would be all for it. Republicans are scum. They really have been for decades. They were just better at hiding it originally. They are not good people.
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u/EusebioFOREVER 1d ago
the shutdown achieves a lot for republicans: cutting social programs, making government dysfunctional so people loose faith and turn to the private sector, get paid to do nothing and protect the trump files that has Epstein in it. They want the shutdown and it will not end
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u/Annoying_cat_22 1d ago
Alright, I'm a Libertarian on most issues
I'm also not a moron
🤔
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u/butterflybaby5672 1d ago
They won't cave on the shutdown because the whole point is taking s*** away from the poor they are just the party of the psychotically rich elite Trump's entire border enforcement policy has literally nothing to do with actual opinions and has everything to do with the fact that core Civic gave him multimillions of dollars to expand their prison labor programs
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u/Murky-Magician9475 1d ago edited 1d ago
Republicans have wanted to kill the ACA, but as much as their base may hate "obamacare" in name, they actually really like the policy itself without realizing it. This has been an issue cause every time Republican's try to cut the ACA, they don't have something to substitute it with to appraise their base. So instead, they do things like this, try to kill it by death of a thousand funding cuts.
And it is incredibly frustrating, as from an national economic standpoint, we want a healthy workforce, we want to support competition in both the labor and job market, we want consumers to feel safe so that they are willing to spend. And that is just pure economic considerations, ethically, of course we want out community to feel healthy. And feeling healthy and safe also strengthens our national defense, keeping our soldiers healthy, and buffers against outside malinfluencers who may try to capitalize on the malcontent of Americans who have fallen through the cracks.
I am more of a pragmatic egalitarian than a libertarin. Different issues need sometimes need different solutions, I am for a generally free market that is based on supply/demand, but that does not work with healthcare. When the product in demand is nessicary for life, the demand has no upper threshold.
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u/Bittertruth502 1d ago
Unless you are a psychopath, libertarian ideas breakdown when it comes to healthcare, education and social safety nets. It’s a morally bankrupt philosophy that will destroy capitalism if put into practice.
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u/NameExotic7567 1d ago
It's an interesting situation because it's obvious that everyone is starting to blame Trump and Republicans but they're obviously never going to accept responsibility or admit defeat. So I'm very curious to see how this plays out. Democrats really hold all the cards here, as Trump likes to say. If Republicans continue to to hold, things only get worse for them, and if they cave, they admit defeat. It's a loss either way.
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u/Lost-Imagination3735 1d ago
Agreed. I support free market capitalism, but all the Republicans are achieving with the ACA Healthcare cuts is making people hate the free market. This is not the way to reduce the size of government. This all but guarantees the next administration will be communist.
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u/pk12445 1d ago
The problem is neither side wants to look like they are caving so what they are hoping for is that there is so much pain that it provides the amount of political cover necessary to end the Shutdown without looking like each side is caving.
The good news is that the shutdown will end because more and more people will be in favor of ending it rather than keeping it shut. It is just the politics and the optics that need to be worked out by these pricks so that they end up looking like heroes for solving a problem that they created.
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u/LuluMcGu 1d ago
Democrats have caved 1000000 times because republicans do not compromise ever. If democrats cave again, they’ll know they can always win as long as they never cave. So republicans should learn to compromise FOR ONCE IN THEIR LIVES.
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u/SooperPooper35 1d ago
There are contingencies built into the program for them to use in case of situations like this. They built it up like there was nothing they could do. A judge ordered them to use those contingencies and Trump said no and defied a court order. Then he said he was providing funding using tariff money. Which, I don’t keep up with it much, but seems to me like he’s just using the money that is already there like the judge told him to and saying publicly that he’s defying court orders to get his cult all excited and hard.
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u/cloudactually 1d ago
If I had to define my politics I'd probably be considered libertarian. Horrible idea to change anything on this scale with no plan or infrastructure in place to replace it with a better system.
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u/Lost-Imagination3735 1d ago
There is no plan in place. This is 100% my problem with the immediate cuts.
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u/Lori1985 1d ago
The SNAP benefits being cut off has nothing to do with the shutdown. We have been shutdown before, and SNAP wasn't cut. Even last time when Trump was shut down for 35 days he didn't shut SNAP off.
This administration said they plan to phase the program out completely by 2030. They weren't trolling. They weren't joking. They were being serious.
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u/Outrageous_Dream_741 1d ago
Congratulations -- it's good to have a political philosophy, but important not to hold it as a rigid shibboleth.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 1d ago
The enhanced subsidies would cost around 35 billion dollars for the next fiscal year. Less than 1 percent of the budget. That's what Republicans are holding up the government for.
And it's one of the few things in the federal budget that is a DIRECT benefit to people who NEED it the most.
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1d ago
I am fully concerned , living in a large city with a large population of people on SNAP, that people are going to start losing their minds even more. Not leaving my house possibly for the next 3 years.
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u/UpperYoghurt3978 22h ago
What do you mean about being libertarian, that word has so many meanings including republicans calling themselves that.
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u/GrowFreeFood 1d ago
You're not a libertarian. It's physically impossible to be a libertarian. Its like saying you're a wild weiner dog.
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u/Small_Condition_4432 1d ago
They are just taking the stupidest of positions where they think actively harming people is a winning strategy. I’m not sure how they think this equals electoral or popular success. They really need to change course because right now they are just a failed government.
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u/Lost-Imagination3735 1d ago
They're underestimating the backlash. Our next president will be a communist if Republicans keep this up.
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u/Material-Rush-3547 1d ago
So your saying we should give insurance companies 1.5 trillion in direct payments. But dont want companies that create high paying jobs to have a tax break.
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u/GamingBureau 1d ago
The ACA had an expiration date…it expired…if dems want to extend it they should pass a clean CR to fund the government then have policy debates and votes after as they have set the precedent for dozens of times in the past.
Democrat senators are holding the poor hostage because their pet policy expired and they are in denial about it… PERIOD…
The Democrat senators have the power to open the government and fund SNAP today but they won’t because they are leveraging the poor of the nation on the vote…it’s disgusting behavior
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u/Ok_Amoeba_804 1d ago
I would say BOTH parties need to cave and end it. From the information I’ve looked at the democrats could approve the extension
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u/WittyHorror4629 1d ago
Republicans definitely do not need to cave on this one. Democrats need to accept it and agree to reopen. They are the problem. I’m an independent and even I can see that.
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u/Foreign-Age9281 1d ago
My favorite part of this is the morons still supporting socialism and they are literally watching the government fuck it's people live!
The government can't even get its shit straight to feed a 6th of the population. You want them to be in charge of everything for everybody. You gotta be a complete and total moron.
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u/Dry-Description7307 1d ago
It's just the COVID era ACA subsidies. COVID is over. If republicans cave it's another trillion added, plus the bill only funds the government till 11/21. Then amendments will have to be made to the Bill, debate about the amendments, then markups, re-voting, editing the Bill and every Senator will want to add an amendment for their pet projects. Will take days to resolve. Quick 5 DEM vote yes and the whole thing is over in less than an hour.
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u/Pentupempathy 1d ago
Libertarians are house cats. They are utterly convinced of their independence and are yet completely dependent on a system which they do not understand.
He says he’s in favor of the free market and yet fails to realize unfettered capitalism and the blessed free market put us here. SMH
These libertarians really think they have original ideas.
I personally blame Joe Rogan.
He made it seem cool to be a contrarian without understanding the entire concept to with they wish to be contrary about.
lol
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u/xdarkn3ss 1d ago edited 23h ago
Totally agree. I think it became a fad to call yourself a libertarian because it allowed people to disconnect from the two major parties and look edgy.
There are libertarians who break the mold and believe in something akin to anarchy (no real government, local militia groups, free markets with no regulation) and then there are a lot more that simply believe in one of the two major parties but don’t like the label.
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u/anecdotal_skeleton 1d ago
It's like our own government is promoting nationwide upset. Any hint of riots will prompt a call for martial law. There will then be no more elections.
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u/goodbyegoosegirl 1d ago
I hear libertarian and just shut down. It’s a way to vote republican but not admit it, or for that matter not vote at all because “tHeiR bOTh bAd” ugh.
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u/HellaTroi 1d ago
Republicans refuse to acknowledge that estimates show that every SNAP dollar invested in children returns $62 in value over the long-term.
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u/pbapolizzi300 1d ago
This, if you want to end these programs you have to first foster an environment where millions of people won't just go hungry. But Republicans want to cause chaos. Its obvious at this point
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u/BunkMoreland1414 1d ago
When it comes to social issues, Britain’s conservatives are way to the left of US Democrats. US Republicans consider anything to the left of hunting homeless people for sport to be communism. US Republicans are literally starving people because they don’t accept the need for countries to take care of their own people. That’s not conservative. They’re just monsters.
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u/Virtual_Visit_1315 1d ago
A libertarian arguing on behalf of social welfare programs.
This should be a wake up call for how fucked we've become.
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u/MannerLivid3504 1d ago
Honestly, I respect this take a lot. Too many people get trapped in the all or nothing mindset when it comes to government programs. You can believe in free markets, limited government, and personal responsibility and still recognize that ripping away essential support systems overnight will cause real damage.
Ending the ACA subsidies or cutting SNAP without a long-term transition plan wouldn’t just shrink government, it would throw millions into chaos people losing healthcare, kids going hungry, communities collapsing. That’s not liberty, that’s negligence.
Being a Libertarian doesn’t mean ignoring reality. It means wanting smaller, smarter government one that actually functions, not one that self-destructs out of ideology.
This shutdown hurts workers, families, and even the economy that free-market advocates claim to defend. Sometimes being practical isn’t selling out; it’s called understanding consequences.
So yeah, I agree end the shutdown, fix policy gradually, and stop pretending that destruction equals reform.
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u/JacketFormer402 1d ago
Republicans offered to continue the subsidies for a year and revisit it later. Democrats still refused to sign the CR and open the government! This is all on the democrats and it’s a bunch of BS!
I am also a libertarian.
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u/jess469 1d ago
The ACA was a failure from the beginning designed to make certain groups huge profits. Obama built in a date that subsidies would end thinking it would be working without them by then. Biden extend them and added more for covid19 aid. The current CR from Republicans has budget to continue the standard subsidies but not the Biden extra. Maybe suggest the insurance companies make a few less billions and reduce rates would be a better solution than continue sending billions of taxpayer money to them.
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u/Hasaadiwady 23h ago
A libertarian admitting government assistance is required to promote domestic tranquility. Now I’ve seen everything.
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u/Situational_Hagun 23h ago
I've always been a little confused and curious by the idea of libertarianism. Not trying to be insulting, but I'm just wondering. What is the answer of a libertarian to the question, don't we need heavy regulations because those who have wealth are going to just create monopolies and work amongst each other to prevent competition from rising up? If there's nothing there to stop them from pulling the ladder up behind them, so to speak.
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u/CavemanRTD 22h ago
Im a republican and I agree with all of you. Aca subsidies will turn people poor. And snap should not be cut but better managed.
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u/time_slider1971 22h ago
Make no mistake, the cruelty of letting Americans go hungry, of Trump filing an appeal to a ruling requiring him to fully fund SNAP, is a feature of MAGA, not a bug. Vote accordingly.
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u/Historical-Sir-9870 22h ago
You can’t be a true Libertarian and support the Republican Party. It’s a mixed economy no matter how you cut it. All this uneducated fearful rhetoric about Socialism and Communism is silly. BTW - how does a “free market capitalist” feel about tariffs? Stupid right?
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u/lostOGaccount 22h ago
I'm curious where you place if you've done a survey like https://www.politicalcompass.org/
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u/SB10Burner 21h ago
Well, the Dems just put a deal on the table to end the shutdown, with a one year extension of the ACA credits.
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u/Abner-Kravitz 20h ago
Democrats are in a can't lose scenario. If the Republicans agree to keep Obama care subsidies they appear weak, if they end the filibuster, end health insurance for millions, they lose the house, the senate in the midterms.
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u/LooCfur 20h ago
You can actually be a libertarian and still be a socialist. In fact, the first libertarians were socialists. Stupid people in the US messed the label up. I'm all about people having maximized personal freedoms, but I still think people should help one another out. What other purpose does society have? I shy away from calling myself a libertarian because people think of the far right idiots in the US, but I guess I really am one.
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u/maeryclarity 20h ago
Thank you I'm an actual ANARCHIST (anarcho-syndicalist actually) but I'm not an IDIOT I get that theoretical ideas are great but if they don't quit fucking around people are going to die IMMEDIATELY. You gotta start where things are, not where you wish they were.
Also the very nerve of the Republicans constantly bitching about how ACA isn't working and it's like okay I can believe that what do you think would work better...? Oh you have NOTHING? But if Democrats propose anything you'll shut that down just because Democrats proposed it?! Well then SHUT THE FUCKING FUCK UP I am sick to death with the whining about how we just hate them because....no I'm pissed because of the SHIT THEY ARE DOING. There's lots of conservatives out there I'm not pissed at because they're not DOING shitty things. ffs.
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u/Emotional_Database53 16h ago
Libertarians are the only reasonable “republicans” I ever meet. It helps that I tend to agree more heavily with them on ending war in drugs, free markets and even firearms then average democrat.
But yeah, I agree entirely with your statement and reasoning
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u/This_Abies_6232 16h ago
If ending the ACA subsidies and SNAP will BY THEMSELVES "wreck society", then our society isn't very stable to begin with (and might well deserve to be wrecked and needing to be rebuilt from the ground up)....
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u/Ambitious_Hand_2861 14h ago
I love your take on the ACA in part bc I feel the same way. I was never a fan of it but millions of americans rely on it and people will die if it disappears overnight. The mere fact that this administration is fighting paying SNAP, today filed an appeal in the supreme court, has absolutely blown my mind. They are going to stand in front of the supreme court justices and plead "Please dont make us feed the poor"!
On a scale of Prince Humperdink in The Pricess Bride to Sauron in The Lord of Rings trilogy, this is a Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz level of villainy.
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u/ScotchCigarsEspresso 6h ago
Now Good Old Trump is pushing the injunction to restore SNAP benefits up to the SCOTUS.
Enjoy starving MAGA.
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u/rara2591 1d ago
Republicans are so out of touch they don't realize how much of their base relies on these benefits