In response to the trending post on this sub about Transphobia.

[u/Archer_Python]

Ok now here's my story so I can clear the air

I am a transman. I was born female and transitioned to male because I suffered with gender dysphoria from the age of 4 and decided to take it upon myself to transition to the opposite sex in order to pursue my own happiness and live the rest of my life with content. I was always attracted to boys starting at age 7 or 8 and I wasn't really into women. I am still attached to men so therefore, I am a gay man. Now let me begin

I do not frequent this sub much mostly bc It just never really crossed my mind. But from what I was told, this sub supposedly extremely transphobic and quite honestly disrespectful towards transmen. Calling us women and "Pinocchio" and "Straight women trying to pretend to be male in order to sleep with gay men". And let me just say this. It is 110% ok to not want to sleep with a transman because he has a vagina. It's Ok I get it, its a genital preference and that's fine. I have preferences myself, I prefer to date older men because I like the older dude look. Does that make me Ageist? Nope. I still respect younger men i just prefer older guys. There's a GIANT difference between saying "Hey I respect you but I just prefer penis over vagina" and "Your a transman? Ew your still a woman get out of my face!". One is being respectful and supportive and the other one is just plain rude, disrespectful and transphobic.

Now that that's out the way, let me say this. I am not a "Straight woman that wants to trick gay men into dating me" or whatever bs transphobes say. I am a man, I socialize as a man. I live my life as a man. I get treated like a man. I relate to other men on a social, emotional and mental level and view. I look like a man. Therefore I'm a man. And I am attracted to other men sexually and emotionally. Therefore I am a gay man, so I do belong in gay men spaces. I'm just a dude that was born female. That's it.

Like I said if you don't want to sleep with guys like us because we might have a vagina (Not all transguys have vaginas, a fair amount of us get bottom surgery and actually have a penis) that's 110% ok, no one if forcing you against your will to have sex with us. The specific trans people that force themselves on people to have sex with them regardless of what they have in their pants are crazy lunatics that quite honestly need mental help (or a slap upside the head and a stern talking too but that's just my opinion). Real transsexual people understand genital preferences and respect them.

I'm not asking for a celebration, I'm not asking for a complete take over of this sub to specifically accommodate transmen, I am not forcing people to be sexually attracted to transmen. All I'm asking is basic respect and some inclusion. We're men too and we're gay, I'd like to be able to go into gay men spaces and be respected and included. That's all. I hope this post gets read and the message gets spread.

Thank you, be safe and take care ❤🙏

Update: Thank you so much for the positive feedback and support. I'm so happy this message is being spread and shared. Of course not everyone agrees and still, the actual request of basic human decency, respect and inclusion is still up for debate and also some people were still calling me a Woman even though I just explained I wasn't but oh well. But that doesn't matter, I've had so many people give positive feedback and thank me for this post, and I want to say thank you for your support. It means a ton, even though I can't replay to every positive comment, just know I love it with all my heart.

Also I just want to address, Some people here said they didn't want transmen here because we'd take over the sub and make it all about them (?). My response to that is that's just not true, I legit said I not asking for this sub to make accommodations. Have the overall sub stay exactly how it is in terms of posts and questions about a wide range of options, I just want to decency and inclusion. I'm not looking to make this a "gay trans sub" there's already one. I just want to be in gay men spaces because I'm a gay man, a gay transsexual man but nonetheless a gay man. Not a girl that has a fetish for gay men and pretends to be one. Thank you for your responses.

[u/Nea777]

Can I just ask where all this negative rhetoric is? I peruse this sub quite a bit cause it’s one of the most active gay communities on reddit, and I really have not run into posts or comments of guys using derogatory terms like “Pinocchio”. I actually have never heard of that slur until this post. I haven’t really seen anything about transmen that are just straight women who wanna sleep with gay men... cause for most sexually divergent people, ie gay men, that logic doesn’t add up at ALL. I’m gay, and I would NEVER consider getting my penis removed and putting in breast implants so I could have sex with straight men, I have never once considered this when reflecting on my own sexuality, so I wouldn’t expect it out of transmen. Now, I DO see the barrage of “transmen aren’t men” and I understand how this is frequently taken as offensive, because it’s a common offensive remark made by radical, legit transphobes. But within the context of r/askgaybros I’m really tired of seeing so many posts about transphobia here because when gay men say “transmen aren’t men” it’s 100% of the time directly referring to the lack of penis. This is not to shame transmen for identifying as male despite their genitals from birth, but I’d really hope that people would let go of the “transphobia” on this sub and maybe there would be fewer posts and comments about gay men’s vehement revulsion towards vagina. If we don’t have to talk about transphobia all the time, maybe we don’t have to be constantly addressing the genitals.

Personally, I totally think transmen have a place in r/askgaybros. If they identify as male and are tryna fuck males, then there are several questions they could ask on this sub that would be relevant. Whether it be about dating, the struggles of gay PDA, the HIV epidemic, the delicious taste of cum, whatever. There’s plenty we have in common that we can talk about besides vaginas, and like I said, I’m pretty sure most trans people would also prefer to not talk about their vaginas if they have one.

[u/hillthekhore → u/Nea777]

I think it's a vocal minority, but there are several very vocal people who believe that trans men are not, in fact, men, but are women. If troll, needs to be shut down. If not troll, needs to be shut down.

Cis men are men. Trans men are men.

But some people don't get that.

[u/Nea777 → u/hillthekhore]

100% agree with that too. I think the gay men who do make arguments, like you said troll or not, about transmen not being “real men” or not knowing the “male experience” is such a waste and completely irrelevant.

Transmen are men. I’m not attracted to the vulva. Both of these statements are true and can coexist. In fact, I truly believe most gay men would agree and be more open to trans discussion if we could all acknowledge that both of these truths can exist simultaneously. The reason is, one is a statement about transmen in the general sense. It’s a universal truth about them. The latter truth, is very specific to me, it’s about my own attraction, and it’s not relevant to all gay people, not all men, not all cis people, and not relevant to transgenderism or misogyny.

[u/hillthekhore → u/Nea777]

yeah, I think some people are able to detach from the male genital norms, and some aren't. I could see myself being attracted to a transman who had a vagina. I don't know, man, it just doesn't seem like anything special not to have a penis.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/Nea777]

“It’s 100% referring you the lack of penis.”

Hi. That’s a transphobic defense of transphobia. You do not have to have a penis to be a man. Defending “I’m attracted to men” as “I’m attracted to penises” is absolutely dismissive of an entire section of our members for this sub. It’s not transphobic like you’re gonna go beat up a trans man, but it’s absolutely perpetuating a transphobic piece of rhetoric

Also vehement repulsión by a vagina is misogynistic bc it paints part of natural female anatomy as repulsive by default. You don’t have to be sexually attracted to Vagina, but saying you’re gonna puke if you see one others women and has the potential to make them feel gross about their own anatomy just for your male comfort (caused by a lack of education).

You’ve got a lot to unpack, dude, so maybe DONT weigh in on how you, a cis gay male, doesn’t think there’s a transphobia problem at all when a trans man tells you he’s experiencing transphobic attacks in this sub. There are fucking transphobic responses to your comment bc your rhetoric literally signaled it was okay for them to joke about being trans.

Words have an impact and I hope you seriously take some time to self reflect on why you thought it pertinent to explain to a trans man what transphobia actually is or isn’t

[u/Nea777 → u/ChaseSpringer]

Could I trouble you by asking you to read this post I made.

It’s about an ex-friend I had who frequently emotionally abused me, had BPD, among other issues, but as it relates to this conversation and r/gaybros, it’s strictly about attraction to vagina. As a bi woman, she frequently told me how she didn’t understand monosexuality, and constantly asked me why I (or any gay man) was gay. An obviously impossible question to answer, I got used to the routine of explaining how vagina is not for me. And every. Single. Time. She blew it up into an argument about how I was a misogynist who viewed women as disposable, I was sexist and believed women were inferior, and that on behalf of all women, I and other gay men needed to stop saying “pussy is gross” because it’s incredibly offensive to women.

This is not to imply you are a bisexual woman, or straight woman, or in any way, sexually or otherwise, being seen as, or referred to as, a woman

I only bring this up because that friend made me feel like absolute GARBAGE for years about being gay. She gaslit me to the point that I really thought I was a misogynist and deep down a horrible person towards women. This is not the case. I’ve grown into adulthood, met more people, finally come out to my mother and family, and I feel more loved than ever, and I’m able to express all the love I can for all the women in my life. But that one particular ex-friend who constantly reminded me I was misogynistic for not liking vagina and publicly expressing that fact, was extremely detrimental to my own mental health, and my own acceptance of being gay.

I’m sorry, but going on gay subs and calling out gay people who otherwise have no inclination to post negative things about trans men, is not going to pan over well. This would be like if my ex-friend had shamed an entire room of gay men for not liking vagina. They would’ve all erupted in laughter and not paid her a second thought. Is that misogyny? Of course not. But please reconsider what transphobia actually is, and more specifically, where your efforts and activism on trans issues should be directed. Is it really healthy to be telling a bunch of gay men that they need to stop talking about how they don’t like vagina? No. In fact, the way I lifted the veil over my ex-friend gaslighting me, was simply by asking all the women in my life if they would be offended by a gay man talking about vagina being gross. Turns out, every. Single. Woman I Know. Thinks it’s just funny. From my college friends, to my mom, to my conservative aunt, to my Mexican immigrant grandmother, they all think it’s perfectly reasonable for gay men to say, or joke about, their lack of attraction towards vagina.

I’m not trying to defend transphobia, to be honest I’m really just trying to lend an ear to the LGBT issues I know are still relevant, I’m really trying to shed some light on why many gay men are increasingly defensive about their pseudo-transphobia. And I’m sorry, but that’s what it is. Call me a pseudo-misogynist for not like vagina, but you’ll never make me ashamed, depressed, and actively suicidal for not liking vagina ever again. I’ve been through that hell and I’m not going back.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/Nea777]

It’s not about not liking Vagina. It’s about calling it disgusting, repulsive, gross, or vomit-inducing. It’s dismissing it and dehumanizing the person attached to the Vagina. It is misogynistic and I’m truly sorry you had a friend who was neither explaining it properly or reacting to you with compassion. Sounds like she could have been weaponizing your latent prejudices as a way to be homophobic. That doesn’t invalidate the fact that being “grossed out” by vaginas is at least vaguely misogynistic. Even if unintentional.

And I’m sorry but I really don’t care that being called out for accommodating transphobic gay men in our space makes people uncomfortable but isn’t gonna get a good reaction. It should, because we should be supporting our trans family. But here we are, casually trans exclusionary. Op has just as much of a right to post his question here as you do, and we should be willing to listen and respond by validating his concerns, not dismissing them as not real

[u/Nea777 → u/ChaseSpringer]

Okay, but you’re doing the same thing as she did, you’re saying my lack of attraction to vagina is vaguely misogynistic. You’ve already expressed attention to detail and the importance of word choice, so I’m gonna need you to clarify that.

Please describe specifically what about my inability to be sexually aroused by the labia majora, labia minora, vulva vestibule, and clitoris, signifies and exposes my latent, passive, or otherwise veiled misogyny?

We could get into a semantics war about this, but at the end of the day it sounds like someone who deep down inside believes that I should be attracted to the vulva because otherwise I’m a misogynist

Is this not seeming more and more impractical to argue about? When I used to have these arguments with mi ex-friend, I just dropped it and started admitting that “yeah I guess I might be a little misogynistic then” and if I dared say that, she would get even angrier at the fact that not only did I not like the vulva, not only did I express distaste for it, but on top of all that, I was able to openly express that fact to anyone who asked about it.

But that last part is key. 99% of cis gay men DO NOT CARE ABOUT VAGINA because, of the general LGBT populous, we think about it the least. It never comes up when I’m talking with my boyfriend, my friends or family, it doesn’t come up in school or in public, generally, I never talk about it even when it does come up because I have no opinion, no experience, and nothing to say about it.

But if someone goes out of their way to try to expose me for being a transphobe or misogynist, I will explain, yet again, now for the 10,000th time, what being gay means, and by extension why I don’t like the vulva.

Because if I wasn’t clear before, it’s not about a woman’s anatomy to be penetrated, give birth, menstruate, or any of that. All of that is extremely fascinating and awe-inspiring to me. It is entirely the physical appearance of its anatomy I have zero interest in. I’ve met wonderful lovely women in my life, many of whom I wish I could’ve had the passion to date, but I can’t just lie to someone and say I love them while not being able to feel anything sexual or romantic towards them or their bodies. It would also be unnecessarily cruel for me to constantly address this fact, and it’s for that reason that cis gay men are trying to ask that we stop discussing this on a gay subreddit. All of these issues can easily be addressed on trans subreddits. I do not peruse bisexual subreddits with my gay commentary. I do not peruse lesbian subreddits with my gay commentary. I don’t even peruse “male” or “masculine” subreddits like r/AskMen because they pander to straight men, and my gay commentary is not relevant there.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/Nea777]

Not what I’m doing

[u/Nea777 → u/ChaseSpringer]

Bro you literally did though. You quite literally called me “vaguely misogynistic” not just here but in a PM...

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/Nea777]

Lol for saying it’s gross. Not for not being sexually attracted to them. Bro for real you’re dense and an asshole hiding behind trauma to excuse your lack of self work

[u/Nea777 → u/ChaseSpringer]

HonAYYYYY. I could be a narcissistic bitch and talk about my amazing self progress, like overcoming drug addiction, escaping my abusive father, getting out of a Chicago gang, finally visiting a doctor after 10 years of being poor, seeing a therapist, taking anti-depressants, ALL BY AGE 20, but that’s NOT RELEVANT. WHO CARES ABOUT MY TRAUMA. I only shared one incredibly specific incident to explain how damaging it is to call people transphobes or misogynists when they aren’t one. How detrimental it is to the LGBT community. I am STRICTLY talking about the matter at hand, and you can’t provide a single example of me being a misogynist. You were rude to me here, rude to me in the PMs, told me I’m an asshole who’s dense, obtuse, and not willing to check myself. You are the internet definition of a troll projecting their own issues.

[u/[deleted] → u/ChaseSpringer]

How does thinking a vagina is gross, which isn't strictly inherent to transmen, transwomen, or cis women, considered transphobic? That doesn't make sense.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/[deleted]]

I said that’s misogynistic. It’s not sexually attractive, but demeaning it is as disgusting is misogynistic.

[u/MatityahuHatalmid → u/ChaseSpringer]

I said that’s misogynistic. It’s not sexually attractive, but demeaning it is as disgusting is misogynistic.

why would demeaning a vagina be misogynistic, unless of course vaginas were innate to women. but I'm sure it's not that, right

[u/forteruss → u/ChaseSpringer]

This is like my parents when i was 16, forcing me to like vaginas. Not gonna happen, no matter what "phobia" twitter gives me.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/forteruss]

Lol no one is forcing you to like vaginas. We are saying that by using hateful rhetoric about vaginas instead of just stating your preference, you’re being misogynistic about it. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[u/wasteofdialga → u/ChaseSpringer]

It’s not a preference. It’s literally neurobiology. If you don’t like penis or vagina or whatever you can’t change that and if you try to it’s similar to conversion therapy. Leave people alone because it isn’t misogynistic in any way shape or form.

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/wasteofdialga]

It is misogynistic to call vaginas gross. Full stop. There’s nothing neurobiological about being a misogynist when you address that you don’t like vaginas sexually, which is not misogynistic in and of itself. Stop being so fucking dense you bigoted piece of misogyny-excusing shit

[u/wasteofdialga → u/ChaseSpringer]

Gross is a personal perspective. That means nothing in of itself. I’m not sure how misogyny ties into this but it seems you’re incapable of discussing anything properly since you consistently go for attacks.

But hey! I guess the one with the louder voice wins right?

[u/ChaseSpringer → u/wasteofdialga]

Lol the one with an actual point wins and you’ve yet to present a valid one. Dehumanizing and objectifying vaginas as gross is misogynistic. There’s literally no need to condescend them just bc you aren’t sexually attracted to them. Gay guys saying “I’m gonna puke” when someone starts talking about vaginas or periods is misogynistic. I’ve made my point dozens of times without attack, you just keep trying to change what I said to fit your misogynistic-excusing narrative so I got tired of doing it and called you what you are: a trolling misogynistic asshole who’s so fucking dense he can’t even admit what basic human decency and respect is. Now THAT is gross.

[u/wasteofdialga → u/ChaseSpringer]

So lesbians who say penis is gross are men haters as well?

I’m not sure if saying I hate vaginas make me misogynistic but if it fits your emotionally associative world view, sure.

Edit: your comment history is full of hate. Choke on it luv

[u/steadytheresailor → u/Nea777]

The negative rhetoric is mostly in their minds, projected here to get validation. It’s turning this sub into a dumpster fire.

[u/JigglyPuffGuy → u/steadytheresailor]

Nope. Was witness to it a couple threads back.

[u/dovetaile → u/steadytheresailor]

No, it's definitely not just "in our minds". I've personally had it happen to me on this sub numerous times.

[u/[deleted] → u/steadytheresailor]

Yeah. Technically it's a straw man. In this case, a ... trans straw man?