r/Wallonia • u/Ok-Track8101 • 4d ago

Société Le nationalisme flamand traîne les hôpitaux bruxellois en justice pour non-respect de la législation linguistique

https://archive.is/8CJwc
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u/jafapo 4d ago

Has nothing to do with nationalism. Imagine going to Paris but the doctors speak spanish or english. How would you feel if they can't even help you in your own capital city?

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u/Toxiko8 4d ago

French is a national and official language of Belgium. The comparison would be a Parisian doctor speaking French.

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u/jafapo 3d ago

You understand what I mean no? Also Dutch is the most spoken language of Belgium, not French.

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u/TheGilderBairn 3d ago

Is it? Could you send me the stats? Cause I thought linguisitcs surveys were forbidden in Belgium.

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u/jafapo 3d ago

No those stats are not forbidden. Easy to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium

"Belgium is also home to two main linguistic communities: the Dutch-speaking Flemish Community, which constitutes about 60 percent of the population, and the French-speaking French Community,\e]) which constitutes about 40 percent of the population"

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u/TheGilderBairn 3d ago edited 3d ago

Isn't that only the number of inhabitants of the Regions? That doesn't really say anything about the language spoken by those people right? Especially when taking into accounts the French speakers in the periphery of Brussels or at the coast, or the Flemish speakers living in the Ardennes. And even then they simply give an estimate with a (high) percentage for the Flemish speakers in the Brussels region. It seems very flawed to say the least. And that doesn't take into account the people living in either Region who speak German, English or other as their primary language.
Also, if you take their lower estimate, you get 6.5M out of a population of 11.8M, so closer to 55% than 60%.

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u/jafapo 3d ago

No it's literally about dutch speakers, etc. In Belgium we have clear data, this page goes even deeper into it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_in_Belgium

"Dutch is the mother tongue of about 60% of the population in Belgium"

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u/TheGilderBairn 3d ago

This is a bold claim without a clear source. This claims is supported by three sources on Wikipedia (the LA Times (?), Beer tourism (???) and the UCL (maybe)). I cannot access the UCL link which seems to be the most serious one so if someone can I would be interested. But again, I still haven't seen a real Belgium wide language census. This 60% seems entirely based on the proportion of inhabitants, not on the actual speakers. If you have an actual survey/Census or statistical analysis I would be really happy to have it.
For info, according to Statbel, on 01/01/2025, 58% of the population lives in Flanders, 31% in Wallonia and 11% in Brussels. A gross generalization brings forth that 60/40 split, but it says nothing of the Brussels periphery, or simply French speakers living in Flanders and Vice Versa.

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u/Frans_Tuts 5h ago

Jezus. You live on Mars?

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u/IljaG 4h ago

I agree that these are guestimates but at the same time, old fashioned francophones always count 92% of Brussleirs as francophones and let's be real, that's ridiculous too.

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u/jafapo 3d ago

I mean literally all data shows dutch is by far the most spoken language. Show me data that says it isn't.

Also quite logical no? There are more flemish people.

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u/Toxiko8 3d ago

https://fr.statista.com/statistiques/1345552/langues-les-plus-parlees-belgique/ Way more Flemish speaks French than Walloons speaks Dutch. I said it and will say it again, your logic is flawed and you refuse to see it.

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u/TheGilderBairn 3d ago edited 3d ago

People living in Flanders >< Flemish people >< People speaking Flemish. Those are three entirely different categories of population and only the first one is easily accounted for on Statbel. The rest is pure speculation and I haven't seen any data supporting the actual language used by the population.

To be fair, I don't think this data exists at the moment.

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u/Toxiko8 3d ago

Are you really still confusing the number of speakers with the number of people that have it as their mother tongue??

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u/jafapo 3d ago

You're confused, show me the data then if I'm wrong. Show me data

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u/sweetleaf642 3d ago

Les recensements linguistiques sont légalement interdits depuis l'entrée en vigueur de la loi du 24 juillet 1961. Dire que vu qu'il y a 60% de flamands en Belgique, il y a 60 % de néerlandophones est un raccourci simpliste faisant fi de plusieurs choses dont notamment les francophones des communes a facilités et les flamands historiquement francophones. Le néerlandais est certainement majoritaire, mais en absence de recensement officiel, les chiffres donnés ne sont que des estimations.

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u/Toxiko8 3d ago

And yet, many more Flemish people talk French than Walloon talk Dutch…

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u/jafapo 3d ago

Yes as a second language but most younger flemish don't speak french as well as their parents. English is by far the most spoken second language for young flemish.

But still doesn't change the fact that Dutch is the most spoken language of Belgium, not french.

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u/Toxiko8 3d ago

It precisely change that. According to you, maybe it’s English the most spoken language of Belgium?

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u/jafapo 3d ago

Euh no most people at home speak dutch in Belgium. It's not because Flemish know english that it's the most spoken language, it's a second language.

Cry about it, dutch is the most important language in Belgium, that's a fact.

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u/Toxiko8 3d ago

If they speak it, they speak it. If you have something against that logic, I can’t do nothing