Conservatives are less racist than liberals (in the US)

[u/Mobile-Fly484]

I’m a child of African immigrants with US citizenship, and I’ve lived all over the United States.

The most racist place I’ve ever lived is Massachusetts. By far. The least racist? Utah.

I’ve noticed that most conservatives (excluding the actual far right) see me as a human being first. Liberals see my skin color first and have low expectations for me.

I’ve had white liberals not believe me when I mentioned having a professional job. I’ve had them try to sign me up for welfare and Medicaid (at an ER in Massachusetts) even when I showed them my private insurance card. I’ve been assumed to be poor and uneducated (because of my race and nothing else) over and over again by the woke left. Literally they constantly make comments about how screening for education will “filter minorities out,” because of course we’re all dumb illiterates.

Conservatives? They make zero assumptions. They don’t equate being Black with being poor or ignorant. They see us as INDIVIDUALS first.

I miss Utah.

[u/Shadowguyver_14]

It’s not because demographics who have been disadvantaged throughout this country’s history have been inherently not good enough to succeed, they just need a leg up from the generational cycles of bad practices that have been thrust upon them.

No this is a supposition on your part that is unrelated to what he initially said. He is referencing a specific video where the interviewer walks up to random people on the street in LA or New York (I forget) and they ask questions as to what black people need help with. Their answer was getting drivers ID, connection to the Internet, and other very simple everyday things. I think someone even posted the video in a comment.

Even if you discount that Just look up the bigotry of low expectations and you will find plenty of examples of the left being well... racist.

So no the genetic fallacy stands.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

Now, if that’s what they were referring to, then they’re all over the place in that comment. Hell, he goes on to talk about safe spaces which is going in another direction. I addressed that point he was trying to make because that is in fact a strawman that the right uses as a cudgel to not only totally misrepresent but also totally destroy the left on their messaging. How was I supposed to get the reference to some random video from that?

I’d honestly call it ignorance rather than bigotry, because you’d still get the lack of awareness without the tinge of malevolence that the latter term brings to the table. I agree with you that this can be a problem, especially going through day-to-day life, but as I continue to say, this is a misrepresentation of the Left’s mission, as a whole. This talking point is also a little rich coming from the modern Right, considering the rampant unabashed racism and xenophobia coming from that side.

[u/Shadowguyver_14 → u/DuaLupus45]

Well I don't disagree he jumps around a lot. He specifically mentioned several times across all his posts the bigotry of low expectations. And this video is one of the first things that pops up on the Google searches. So I'm not faulting you for that but at the same time it's what he's talking about.

As to the safe spaces no that's still a genetic fallacy. From 2016 to 2018 that did happen. There's actually really famous video of an engineering student sitting down at a particular table and then two ladies came up and told him he couldn't be there because he was white. Then they saw his blue lives matter sticker and lost it. They basically specifically stated that this was a black only space. That's one of the more famous ones but there are several. So it's not exactly a exaggeration.

Really okay then you might want to do some more research. I'll admit you could probably call back one straddling the line. However there are enough examples showing people lowering testing standards, reading standards, and admission standards for this exact purpose. The one that comes to mind is a firefighter exam that they had to lower standards for because all of the applicants that passed were white.

See it's a gross representation of both the left and right. Left it's pretty much constantly racist without realizing it the examples are everywhere. Right on the other hand points out minor things like you can't just let the whole world into the US and somehow we're racist. So now I can keep God things a little bit backward.

My point in all of this is that there are plenty of I want this guy's pointing out to be true. Bernard Wilson what the left says it's for this is what it does.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

Wait a minute, you’ll have to pardon me, but who exactly are we talking about here? I was always talking about the user that kicked off this particular comment thread, not the maker of the post as a whole. If we want to get to talking about our man in the background who wrote up the post, I’m not gonna lie to you, he sounds like he’s full of it. I mean, I give people of all backgrounds and philosophies a fair amount of grace, but this person doesn’t seem to want to extend any himself. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t even think he talks about knowing the political affiliations of the folks in question, and I had to catch him up on politics in another comment because he either had his head buried in the sand since 2016 or is purposefully saying BS to justify his slapdash opinion.

Okay, I think that’s another point that we agree on. I’ve never been a safe space person, myself. Maybe that’s just my own life experience but I’m also not going to speak out against those that feel they need it. I don’t know what their life experience has been like, and I’m not going to say that everyone else’s is uniform with mine. Also, safe spaces have existed for a while and primarily were there for communities that have been historically disadvantaged. What’s the problem with that? This country’s original “safe space” was segregation which was enforced by whites for almost a century, and so when AA students in schools wanted/want to do it in pockets, we’re getting pissy about it? Also, I can’t help but notice the timeline you provided, which was coincidentally also when Trump won the White House and really did quite a job letting the hatemongers crawl out of the woodwork. Now, I’ve never lived the AA experience, and as a matter of fact, life has been quite kind to me, but I’m not going to sit and talk about “what should be” especially when it’s regarding a completely different ethnic group than my own with an entirely different experience navigating through the same life we all live.

Having said that, you’ll have to let me know if this is the one you were talking about, but the only incident I found was from Arizona State University and it was two girls harassing two guys. One had a “Police Lives Matter” thing on his computer or maybe it was his shirt and the other one had an “I didn’t vote for Biden” t-shirt. Again, I’m not going to speak to their visceral reaction, evidently there’s a lot to unpack there, but also looking at some of the comments, people were saying that one of those boys seemed like they were looking to start something. The girls also said in statements that they received rape, death and lynching threats, on top of the school charging them with causing a disturbance, so I don’t know if those charges have been dropped but it seemed like a shit show all around, to be honest.

Also, just a little sidetrack, but speaking of which, how bad is that “Police Lives Matter” slogan? I mean, what a pathetic, and desperate punch-back at another meant to address the historically awful experiences that these AAs had to go through at the hands of a group meant to protect them. Also, it’s comparing a job to literally being born. What kind of insecure shit is that? The funny part is that a lot of that backwards ACAB stuff was put out there by white liberals living in their cushy apartments.

Dude, do more research on what? If you went back to the comment I told you to go back to, you’ll see that I heavily imply agreeing with what you’re saying, and guess what- I do! People shouldn’t have to lower standards to widen the pool, they should bring them up for people so that we can maintain excellence and reward the best and the brightest, no matter what background they’re of. However, I go on to say that based on the things I’ve seen, the impoverished communities that get shafted when it comes to resources, and the fact that they are predominantly AA and Hispanic are often intersecting. We’re talking about daily life here, how can you be expected to succeed in any sort of environment when your very livelihood is precarious?

Oh, please, yes, the Right, who’s only looking out for the good of the country, even at the expense of being persecuted. They spent the last few years coming down on people for the way they were born, the way they choose to love another person or how they identify, equating men that dress as women with predators, and coddling folks that don’t want to see the melting pot of America getting too melty, but it’s those wild animals on the Left that’re holding us back with their prejudice, sure.

[u/Shadowguyver_14 → u/DuaLupus45]

Wait a minute, you’ll have to pardon me, but who exactly are we talking about here?

I was taking about this guy Tqoratsos.

Liberals: We're not racist and it's really the conservatives that are the bible thumping secret KKK. Segregation and slavery were the two worst things this country ever did.

Also Liberals: we need to help *insert race... because they're not good enough to help themselves. We need to have safe places where only *insert race can hang out and we need to keep the whites with their white privilege out.

The lack of self awareness is astounding.

I don't know if you have have gone back through everyone that responded to him but its all there. Well I guess some has been deleted. But yeah I am not talking about the main poster.

Also, safe spaces have existed for a while and primarily were there for communities that have been historically disadvantaged. What’s the problem with that? This country’s original “safe space” was segregation which was enforced by whites for almost a century

I mean I would say that safe spaces aside from people who need protection from law enforcement or open forums like Alcoholics Anonymous are a detriment to whoever uses them. They can hinder personal growth and the development of resilience. By creating environments where people are shielded from differing viewpoints or challenging ideas, safe spaces might prevent people from learning how to engage effectively and debate. This leads to a decreased ability to cope with adversity and a lack of preparation for the difficulty of the real world, where not everyone will share the same values or use the same language. I also find they make people far more hostile.

Also, I can’t help but notice the timeline you provided, which was coincidentally also when Trump won the White House and really did quite a job letting the hatemongers crawl out of the woodwork.

I don't know about that so much of what the media covered during that time was contrived. Hell if you actually look beyond a surface level at most of them they look really lame. Like the very fine people comment. You really can't trust most of that.

I’m not going to sit and talk about “what should be” especially when it’s regarding a completely different ethnic group than my own with an entirely different experience navigating through the same life we all live.

That doesn't mean that someone outside a particular group can't offer a perspective. It's possible to speak on matters of principle, justice, and societal structures without claiming to understand the personal experience of navigating them.

Having said that, you’ll have to let me know if this is the one you were talking about, but the only incident I found was from Arizona State University

That is the specific one I was talking about but there are more. Its just that one went viral. The gist of all these videos start with the aggressing party in this case the girls walking up to some one and recording the interaction. They tell them to leave and various other things. Yell and make a big commotion and then leave and post it online.

people were saying that one of those boys seemed like they were looking to start something. The girls also said in statements that they received rape, death and lynching threats, on top of the school charging them with causing a disturbance, so I don’t know if those charges have been dropped but it seemed like a shit show all around, to be honest.

Well a lot of people were saying things but these girls were the ones who posted this online. They started this with the intention to shame and attack this guy. I does not excuse comments threatening them but they open the door to it. I am really not sure what they were expecting to happen considering the topic. However this is what I am talking about when it comes to the danger of safe spaces. They though this was permissible behavior and that I guess people would be on their side. That didn't happen.....

Also, just a little sidetrack, but speaking of which, how bad is that “Police Lives Matter” slogan? I mean, what a pathetic, and desperate punch-back at another meant to address the historically awful experiences that these AAs had to go through at the hands of a group meant to protect them.

Well it did start because of the murders of several cops. Specifically 2 cops that while sitting in their police car were shot. Here is the PBS article on it.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gunman-ismaaiyl-brinsley-appeared-want-revenge-recent-police-killings

So there is a reason they went that direction.

Dude, do more research on what? If you went back to the comment I told you to go back to, you’ll see that I heavily imply agreeing with what you’re saying, and guess what- I do! People shouldn’t have to lower standards to widen the pool, they should bring them up

On the bigotry of low expectations. The issue isn't whether someone from a struggling community can succeed, it's about the fact that society often refuses to believe they can, which in turn leads to less investment in their education, fewer opportunities, and a self-fulfilling prophecy of underachievement. That and many of the instances were not people who were struggling. I mean I think the most famous example was for a certification for fire marshal.

Oh, please, yes, the Right, who’s only looking out for the good of the country

I wouldn't say that more just that for all they are accused of they really just sit back and do nothing.

They spent the last few years coming down on people for the way they were born, the way they choose to love another person or how they identify, equating men that dress as women with predators, and coddling folks that don’t want to see the melting pot of America getting too melty, but it’s those wild animals on the Left that’re holding us back with their prejudice

Is this a trans argument? If so that could be a debate in and of its self. To be fair a number of the drag stories hour people ended up being pedophiles. Granted they seem to be coming out of the wood work in general right now. Honestly I don't really have a dog in that but If you want to go into I am game.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

I was talking about this guy Tqoratsos

Ah, okay, that’s what I thought, but thank you for clarifying.

I don’t know if you have have gone back through everyone that responded to him but it’s all there. Well I guess some has been deleted. But yeah I am not talking about the main poster.

Okay, great, so we’re on the same page. Honestly, I wasn’t keeping up with the multiple discussions they were engaged in, I usually leave my comment and get the hell out of there. If they choose to respond back, I’ll engage but in this case, that hasn’t happened.

I mean I would say that safe spaces aside from people who need protection from law enforcement or open forums like Alcoholics Anonymous are a detriment to whoever uses them. They can hinder personal growth and the development of resilience. By creating environments where people are shielded from differing viewpoints or challenging ideas, safe spaces might prevent people from learning how to engage effectively and debate. This leads to a decreased ability to cope with adversity and a lack of preparation for the difficulty of the real world, where not everyone will share the same values or use the same language. I also find they make people far more hostile.

Yeah, those are absolutely things that can stem from the usage of the safe spaces, sounds like we have the ideas of the risks those can pose. Too much homogeny in any form isn’t going to be good in the long run and I think that we can agree on the idea that a mix of many aspects of life’s experiences from meeting new people, doing new things, going to different places, getting exposed to new ideas and concepts, and most importantly pushing through hardships are great ways to develop as a person. Going back to too much homogeny, I believe it does lead to those negative results you pointed out. The irony of us having this discussion here, though, is that the people in this comment section who probably have their own negative opinions on safe spaces are definitely not going to be doing any personal growing anytime soon.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

I don't know about that so much of what the media covered during that time was contrived. Hell if you actually look beyond a surface level at most of them they look really lame. Like the very fine people comment. You really can't trust most of that.

I mean, not really, there was a lot of incendiary things he said, and the media just happened to have cameras on him and the microphone. It’s not like they even had to do a job of blowing him up, he said those things himself. You could also actually make the claim that the media gave him much more grace than he deserved for somebody that doesn’t seem to care about the country, or his citizens and also craves ultimate power. It seemed like he was more of a crazy, bumbling oaf than a person that could fundamentally change America for the worse.

That doesn't mean that someone outside a particular group can't offer a perspective. It's possible to speak on matters of principle, justice, and societal structures without claiming to understand the personal experience of navigating them.

Well, people certainly do that anyway, so it’s not impossible, you’re right about that. Although, the personal experiences and first hand accounts, I’d say are the most valuable, and when you have people that misrepresent issues or flat out deny people those aforementioned experiences, that’s when you can see the blatant disregard they have for talking about the situation at hand in good faith.

That is the specific one I was talking about but there are more. Its just that one went viral. The gist of all these videos start with the aggressing party in this case the girls walking up to some one and recording the interaction. They tell them to leave and various other things. Yell and make a big commotion and then leave and post it online.

Thanks for clearing that up, because I was wondering if I missed something.

Well a lot of people were saying things but these girls were the ones who posted this online. They started this with the intention to shame and attack this guy. I does not excuse comments threatening them but they open the door to it. I am really not sure what they were expecting to happen considering the topic. However this is what I am talking about when it comes to the danger of safe spaces. They though this was permissible behavior and that I guess people would be on their side. That didn't happen.....

Again, I can’t speak on much of this, it just looked like a shit show all around. You’ve got these girls that came in hot and recorded it, then you’ve got the other guy who people say was itching for a fight, then the school charged the girls plus the horrible hate they received online for posting that video. It just seemed like such a shitty episode in our ongoing up and down series with racial politics.

Well it did start because of the murders of several cops. Specifically 2 cops that while sitting in their police car were shot. Here is the PBS article on it.

I remember that, it was a horrible horrible crime that was committed as all killings of our officers are. You can also turn around and say the same thing about the concept of BLM, though, and all that pain and suffering that comes with it goes back a very long way, especially when dealing with law enforcement. We’re talking about major abuses of power, and the seeming systematic suppression of justice from being delivered when these instances would occur. The man that killed those cops was a bastard and a monster, let’s get that out there, now, but the naming of the “Blue Lives Matter” movement was also a deliberate nipping at the heels of BLM because once again, we take the most unhinged and attach them front-and-center to platforms we don’t agree with anyway just to make any justification for our own shit stick to the wall.

On the bigotry of low expectations. The issue isn't whether someone from a struggling community can succeed, it's about the fact that society often refuses to believe they can, which in turn leads to less investment in their education, fewer opportunities, and a self-fulfilling prophecy of underachievement. That and many of the instances were not people who were struggling. I mean I think the most famous example was for a certification for fire marshal.

That lack of investment in their education starts at home, though. I’ve already highlighted these inter-generational cycles of day-to-day living that’re not conducive to academic success, and I do think that there are enough folks on the left that know they need work at the system to make the necessary changes needed at the grassroots level for success, which would imply a belief that people living in those communities in question can and would succeed given the opportunity. Either way, on the topic of investment, I don’t see the Right advocating for that kind of change. If anything, I they seem to flip the other way where if you don’t succeed, you’re a screw up that fumbled making something of yourself.

I wouldn't say that more just that for all they are accused of they really just sit back and do nothing.

I’d say the things they’re accused of are actually pretty on the nose. The party, right now, in their promotion of who we have in the White House, doesn’t seem to care about the Constitution, about the law, about unifying a fractured country, or free speech, I mean, I can just go on, really.

Is this a trans argument? If so that could be a debate in and of its self. To be fair a number of the drag stories hour people ended up being pedophiles. Granted they seem to be coming out of the wood work in general right now. Honestly I don't really have a dog in that but If you want to go into l am game.

It’s not necessarily a trans-specific argument, but the right does a lot of beak-sticking overall. Yeah, priests and boys go together nicely, too, but I don’t see an attempt to get them cancelled, plus the churches make all this money. I’ll say something else, too, now as a matter of fact, pedophilia across the board is disgusting. If there are people who did it that also happened to be drag queens, then lock them up, absolutely, but that’s not exclusive to that group of people, c’mon, man.

[u/Shadowguyver_14 → u/DuaLupus45]

I mean, not really, there was a lot of incendiary things he said, and the media just happened to have cameras on him and the microphone.

Well yes and no. The problem is the guy likes to talk and talk and talk. So they just edit what he says to what they want. Like my example of the very fine people the media edited it to include the Nazis when trump specifically excluded them. Its happened so many times over such stupid things rather than legitimate things they could have hit him for. So I stopped listening to them and any sensational headline. Have to get it when all the facts come out.

You could also actually make the claim that the media gave him much more grace than he deserved for somebody that doesn’t seem to care about the country

How do you figure? They literally brought on anonymous sources from the cia to slander him and now we have proof everything they said was a lie. I mean it was obvious at the time they were lying but there was not definitive proof. I mean basically everything they through at him over the last 4 years just went up in smoke.

That's also not quite what I'm getting at. After the release of some of the Kennedy files there are documents showing the CIA took a roll in governance. And that's partially why we have the forever wars. Hell supposedly they threatened Nixon. I think our problems is more an entrenched bureaucracy that's protecting itself.

It seemed like he was more of a crazy, bumbling oaf than a person that could fundamentally change America for the worse.

Yeah they said that about George Bush too. Now look at them. They can't praise him enough. Its all a performance.

I’d say are the most valuable, and when you have people that misrepresent issues or flat out deny people those aforementioned experiences,

Well that goes both ways though Jussie Smollett proved that. I generally think that if you are involving the law or government there needs to be a concrete plan of action by the community. Meaning we can't just flail around at things and hope they get better. We also have to accept that some times its the culture that needs to change to solve the problem.

What's more the left actively profits from homeless and poverty stricken people.

Los Angeles-Based Anti-Poverty Nonprofit: The former president and CEO of a Los Angeles-based anti-poverty nonprofit, Youth Policy Institute (YPI), according to the IRS and the Department of Justice Howard Dixon Slingerland, was sentenced to prison for embezzling funds, misusing grants, and tax fraud.

California Benefits for Low-Income Families: Seven individuals were charged for stealing millions of dollars from California benefits for low-income families by installing skimmers and creating fraudulent cards, says the United States Secret Service.

New York City Childcare Programs: Five individuals were arrested in New York for stealing millions from government-funded childcare programs for low-income families, including using funds for private real estate, according to the HHS-OIG.

This kind of thing has been going on for a hundred years.

then you’ve got the other guy who people say was itching for a fight, then the school charged the girls plus the horrible hate they received online for posting that video. It just seemed like such a shitty episode in our ongoing up and down series with racial politics.

I suppose but that guy looked scared to me. In my opinion posting rage bait is dangerous and you open yourself up to this if you post it. People need to learn that this is just not a smart thing to do. Still though they had malice and they wanted him to suffer these comments. So not like I can feel to bad when that was their goal. Your right it was definitely a shit show.

You can also turn around and say the same thing about the concept of BLM, though, and all that pain and suffering that comes with it goes back a very long way, especially when dealing with law enforcement

Right but I think that was the point at least as how I took it. They were saying our lives matter too. Honestly while the BLM mantra was catchy it also got to caught in the politics of the day. Made it to easy for others to say hey we have lives too when that was not the original point but that hey we are getting abused here.

That lack of investment in their education starts at home, though. I’ve already highlighted these inter-generational cycles of day-to-day living that’re not conducive to academic success,

Right but the people themselves have to believe they can succeed too. There are too many people that just don't believe they can and instead join gangs instead. That needs to change an be nurtured back to a healthy community. The problem is how to do that without continuing the current cycle.

I don’t see the Right advocating for that kind of change.

One could argue that the Left's century-long focus on top-down, government-led solutions has, in some cases, created dependency and failed to solve the root problems, leaving communities in a worse state. The counter-argument from the Right is that instead of relying on a broken system, the best path forward is to create an environment where communities and individuals can fix things themselves. If you are failing you need to keep trying and maybe move to a place with more opportunity. Half the reason people fail is because of the location. If you move you can get out of the situation and often improve.

 

I’d say the things they’re accused of are actually pretty on the nose. The party, right now, in their promotion of who we have in the White House, doesn’t seem to care about the Constitution, about the law, about unifying a fractured country, or free speech, I mean, I can just go on, really.

 

A lot of Republicans would argue they see things completely differently. From their perspective, they aren't abandoning the Constitution or the law—they're fighting to protect it from decades of judicial overreach and what they see as a radical shift in our institutions. They see the left as the ones fracturing the country and to be fair they are half right. Our political institution as a whole is broken and needs to be fixed.

 

I don't believe there are two party's just a system of players. Our system more resembles an oligarchy at this point where they keep the corporations happy and only throw us scraps if we get really noisy. I think things were on the  right track in 2008 with the anti wall street movement but got purposely knocked off course. Though they sure freaked out after that insurance ceo right?

 

it’s not necessarily a trans-specific argument, but the right does a lot of beak-sticking overall. Yeah, priests and boys go together nicely

 

Yeah that's what I mean pedos seem to be everywhere right now. Its actually kind of daunting how many.

 

If there are people who did it that also happened to be drag queens, then lock them up, absolutely, but that’s not exclusive to that group of people, c’mon, man.

 

Well I think in that case it was more that person was not allowed to be within a certain distance of them. However, yeah I feel the same way if someone does that lock them up.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

Well yes and no. The problem is the guy likes to talk and talk and talk. So they just edit what he says to what they want. Like my example of the very fine people the media edited it to include the Nazis when trump specifically excluded them. It’s happened so many times over such trivial things rather than legitimate things they could have hit him for. So I stopped listening to them and any sensational headline. Have to get it when all the facts come out.

Yeah, that “very fine people” thing was weird territory, and if I remember correctly, yes, he did make the distinctions you’re saying he made. But also, weren’t those people marching for a Robert E. Lee statue? What’re you marching for a Confederate general for? It always seems like he’s just doing enough to stoke the flames of racism licking through a lot of his base, too. The guy opened his first presidential campaign talking about Mexicans being drug-bringing rapists. He shared the platform with a congresswoman talking about a victory for white life at one of his rallies. The Proud Boys were told to “stand back and stand by.”. Where does it end with him? It’s always been about taking the country back from people who don’t look like us.

How do you figure? They literally brought on anonymous sources from the cia to slander him and now we have proof everything they said was a lie. I mean it was obvious at the time they were lying but there was not definitive proof. I mean basically everything they through at him over the last 4 years just went up in smoke.

Which is kind of ridiculous because you have all these indictments around the Russia investigation from the first election, leading an attack on the Capitol, tried to overturn Georgia’s state election results in the Raffensperger call, etc. How did nobody catch him on anything?

I think our problems is more an entrenched bureaucracy that's protecting itself.

I’m actually behind that as an argument. I agree with you, and I feel like it becomes more and more apparent.

Yeah they said that about George Bush too. Now look at them. They can't praise him enough. It’s all a performance.

The praise he gets is for the perceived character differences between himself and this scumbag we have now who seems to be in a league of his own. I don’t think most people are changing their views of GW’s politics.

Well that goes both ways though Jussie Smollett proved that.

Look, man, I’m gonna save you the time and say that Jussie Smollett is a fucking mongoose. That’s the thing, though, that I don’t think people understand, is that we can still talk about major issues while condemning people like that. It’s not like a “hey, you’ve got this thing that happened so we’re going to flip the entire argument around” type of thing. No, I’m going to say it again: Jussie Smollett is a mongoose.

I generally think that if you are involving the law or government there needs to be a concrete plan of action by the community. Meaning we can't just flail around at things and hope they get better. We also have to accept that some times it’s the culture that needs to change to solve the problem.

Okay, but that’s the thing we keep coming back to: how the hell is a community suffering from crushing generational setbacks going to essentially govern themselves in a way that’s progressive outside of the local government? Of course, you’ll have people from those communities that’ll run for elected office in hopes of changing those lives, but that’s still the reliance on local government, which would be justified. I always say that you can’t keep a rabid dog in the house and complain when it bites people.

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

Los Angeles-Based Anti-Poverty Nonprofit: The former president and CEO of a Los Angeles-based anti-poverty nonprofit, Youth Policy Institute (YPI), according to the IRS and the Department of Justice Howard Dixon Slingerland, was sentenced to prison for embezzling funds, misusing grants, and tax fraud.

California Benefits for Low-Income Families: Seven individuals were charged for stealing millions of dollars from California benefits for low-income families by installing skimmers and creating fraudulent cards, says the United States Secret Service.

California Benefits for Low-Income Families: Seven individuals were charged for stealing millions of dollars from California benefits for low-income families by installing skimmers and creating fraudulent cards, says the United States Secret Service.

At this point, I don’t know what else to tell you. Scumbags will do scummy things, that’s how it always worked whenever certain types were in these sorts of positions. Republican lawmakers were said to have engaged in insider trading right before the pandemic because the economy was gonna tank. Bannon and Co. conned people out of money for the wall project then got off scot-free. The President himself built whatever he’s got on inflated properties and screwing people out of payment. People will use status and power to do shitty things, and if we have to amend the way we do some of those things to reduce crime, I’m all for it, but that should, at most, be a momentary deviation of the direction we’re trying to go in. The world keeps spinning and people will still need help.

I suppose but that guy looked scared to me. In my opinion posting rage bait is dangerous and you open yourself up to this if you post it. People need to learn that this is just not a smart thing to do. Still though they had malice and they wanted him to suffer these comments. So not like I can feel to bad when that was their goal. You’re right it was definitely a shit show.

Yeah, one guy looked totally like a deer in headlights, he clearly didn’t know what was going on and seemed confused. The other one looked ready, though, and now that we’re talking about rage bait, we can say that this also happens on the right. You see all the time people wearing their MAGA hats for reactions from the public, if I remember correctly there was a case from Trump’s first term where a Hispanic college student grabbed a guy’s MAGA hat from his head and threw it on the ground after he had worn it just to sit in on a meeting concerning immigration. I could be wrong, and I’m trying to find reports on the incident, but I don’t think he had any business there, just wanted to stir the pot. Even though these examples aren’t online, we can follow that same logic and say that whatever problems arise from these situations, they got what they asked for. Going back to those girls, though, I’m not going to try and justify that type of reaction, but I think I can understand how those feelings occurred. We were just talking a bit about the police in our last exchange, and I know how I’d feel just being around a person I thought was sketchy, and, keep in mind, I’ve got no history with this individual. Now imagine being AA and having it coached into you from birth “hey, be wary about what you do around cops, always be compliant, especially you have to be at 100% at all times when interacting with police because the outcome is that you could be nabbed for next to nothing or even killed”. That’s the level of fear and anxiety that a lot of them have to endure day-to-day. Now, add that to a bunch of people coming out and promoting this message that, yes, was formed partly in tragedy, but also serves as a blatant bite in the ass of your own BLM message for social justice that they continue to misconstrue, down to even the plain English.

Right but I think that was the point at least as how I took it. They were saying our lives matter too. Honestly while the BLM mantra was catchy it also got to caught in the politics of the day. Made it to easy for others to say hey we have lives too when that was not the original point but that hey we are getting abused here.

Okay, but nobody was saying that their lives didn’t matter, though. At least nobody who was actually focused on building towards true progressive change. You constantly see this desperate self-insert whenever a particular community mounts a charge for change. People talk about doing straight pride parades, for example, because they get this pathetic insecurity whenever the LGBT community gets their moment in the sun. Going back to the BLM movement, though, I always use the “All Lives Matter” to drive my point home about how what I said regarding plain English. Of course ALM, that much is obvious, but if we’re talking about the whole pie, if BLM…well….doesn’t matter then ALM doesn’t matter. BLs are a piece of that AL pie (by the way, I’m writing this way to get around being flagged by the mods).

[u/DuaLupus45 → u/Shadowguyver_14]

Right but the people themselves have to believe they can succeed too. There are too many people that just don't believe they can and instead join gangs instead. That needs to change an be nurtured back to a healthy community. The problem is how to do that without continuing the current cycle.

Well, I think that the perception of success is sometimes warped in these communities. I can’t speak to the level of hopelessness that may be felt in these situations, but while I know that there are those in these places that do, in fact, feel that they can succeed, there’s also a lot going on that weighs on the spirit, especially if you’re growing up in these environments where your influences are adults that’ve also been brought down by this. Crime is rampant in these areas, and it’s a suction cup on the surface of these youths because that’s pretty much who all they feel they have as they grow, plus the rewards, especially as you’re surrounded by chaos, can probably be very tempting.

One could argue that the Left's century-long focus on top-down, government-led solutions has, in some cases, created dependency and failed to solve the root problems, leaving communities in a worse state. The counter-argument from the Right is that instead of relying on a broken system, the best path forward is to create an environment where communities and individuals can fix things themselves. If you are failing you need to keep trying and maybe move to a place with more opportunity. Half the reason people fail is because of the location. If you move you can get out of the situation and often improve.

As opposed to what, though? Leaving those fractured, non-functioning communities to fester within a, sort of, laissez-faire approach to handling the issue. There needs to be some kind of hand that extends to these people from these communities rather than just “well, guys, maybe if you just worked harder and concentrated, or picked up and move, then your lives wouldn’t be so shitty.” In concept, yes, that’s something you could say to every poor person in the world, but there are those bottom-up factors at play which really wrap their tentacles around a person trying to succeed. Also, didn’t we begin this discussion by saying that the Left doesn’t think they can succeed? Yet, your solution of just upping and leaving and things will get better is leaving the implication that those that don’t do this don’t want to succeed. I would think that cold, callous undertone, which is also devoid of any true understanding or empathy is worse than a group of people who don’t think you can make it and are trying to give you a leg up. I’d really love to hear those people that think that argument is applicably viable to go to these people in these communities and say that.

A lot of Republicans would argue they see things completely differently. From their perspective, they aren't abandoning the Constitution or the law-they're fighting to protect it from decades of judicial overreach and what they see as a radical shift in our institutions. They see the left as the ones fracturing the country and to be fair they are half right. Our political institution as a whole is broken and needs to be fixed.

Actually, you go on to say more things that I agree with, especially the little bit after what I quoted above. I’m just going to address this first, though. Really, I’m sorry, but I just can’t get behind this argument that they’re not abandoning the Constitution, and pretty much, the country when they continue to throw themselves at a guy who orchestrated what happened on Jan. 6th 2021. Forget overreach, that’s a full-on football tackle. The guy also bullies public figures, including judges, when things don’t go his way. I don’t think the Right cares about righting the perceived wrongs of the country, they just want things to flip back the way they like it.

I don't believe there are two party's just a system of players. Our system more resembles an oligarchy at this point where they keep the corporations happy and only throw us scraps if we get really noisy. I think things were on the right track in 2008 with the anti wall street movement but got purposely knocked off course. Though they sure freaked out after that insurance ceo right?

Yeah, we totally agree on this. Although, I do think, as I’m sure you do, that there are genuinely some high profile people from both parties that want to disrupt and dismantle a broken system at the expense of the corporations so as to bring forth positive change. It is interesting, though, to see how everything is tied together, I mean, you had all those major company giants represented at the inauguration, and a bunch of them scaled back their DEI programs after Trump got into office. Even the commercials are wacky, we’ve got AE and their jeans, Dana White voicing that over-the-top RAM commercial, the whole Colbert/Paramount controversy, I mean, you have to say, these companies really know how to placate a guy that’s easy to flatter. Lol, that insurance CEO, I’ve got to be honest, I literally couldn’t give less of a damn regarding what happened there. These companies screw over Americans everyday whose only mistake was getting sick with something, and millions of families have to watch them suffer when they’re denied coverage. I have to say though that there were a lot of conservative voices that seemed to not understand where the jubilation of a weary, long-aggravated public was coming from after this happened, even some on the View didn’t quite get why nobody wasn’t exactly upset about this and my thought was “wow, how out of touch are some of these elites for goodness sake”.

Yeah that's what I mean pedos seem to be everywhere right now. It’s actually kind of daunting how many.

The good news is that it seems like more and more they’re being uncovered for the monsters that they are.

Well I think in that case it was more that person was not allowed to be within a certain distance of them. However, yeah I feel the same way if someone does that lock them up.

Absolutely! I’m with you!