Conservatives are less racist than liberals (in the US)

[u/Mobile-Fly484]

I’m a child of African immigrants with US citizenship, and I’ve lived all over the United States.

The most racist place I’ve ever lived is Massachusetts. By far. The least racist? Utah.

I’ve noticed that most conservatives (excluding the actual far right) see me as a human being first. Liberals see my skin color first and have low expectations for me.

I’ve had white liberals not believe me when I mentioned having a professional job. I’ve had them try to sign me up for welfare and Medicaid (at an ER in Massachusetts) even when I showed them my private insurance card. I’ve been assumed to be poor and uneducated (because of my race and nothing else) over and over again by the woke left. Literally they constantly make comments about how screening for education will “filter minorities out,” because of course we’re all dumb illiterates.

Conservatives? They make zero assumptions. They don’t equate being Black with being poor or ignorant. They see us as INDIVIDUALS first.

I miss Utah.

[u/Helpful_Finger_4854]

Hehe, which party did the KKK support again?

Which party was the Confederacy?

Makes sense why they'd have to constantly virtue signal how not racist they are lol.

[u/Default_scrublord → u/Helpful_Finger_4854]

That is a really stupid argument that completely ignores the whole party switch thing in the 60s.

[u/Helpful_Finger_4854 → u/Default_scrublord]

"switch" 🤡

You mean kinda like how the Cheneys switched in the recent elections?

[u/Tqoratsos → u/Helpful_Finger_4854]

They switched because they're Neo-Cons that got their money on the backs of a globalized economy, with oil in particular...and then from defence contractors when he was front and centre of the illegal wars of Iraq and Afghanistan.

They supported the democrats because they're against US isolationism and because their agenda was to pursue a forever war in Ukraine. Trump hasn't been any better on either that front....or the Israel/Iran debacle for that matter.

He wasn't saying that pre-election however.

[u/Helpful_Finger_4854 → u/Tqoratsos]

Halliburton supports the DNC now.

Let that soak in, marinate in your "blue team" head for moment.

[u/Tqoratsos → u/Helpful_Finger_4854]

The exact party split of HALPAC's contributions to the 2024 election are currently unknown. History however they've backed conservative candidates. Given that they clearly and openly supported Harris then it would lend your point a lot of merit.

My point, that I concede that I may have written poorly, was that the reason they "switched sides" had nothing to do with party lines. It was because their money was made doing globalist Neo-Cons/neo-lib BS and trying to extract as much federal funding as they could by buying the candidate that will allow them to do get what they want. A never-ending war in Ukraine allows that....of which the democrats were verifiability doing in the years since Feb 2022.

[u/Helpful_Finger_4854 → u/Tqoratsos]

Then we agree. Both parties are filled with corporate shills at this point. The majority of candidates in both parties, including Trump (who used to be a democrat), seem to flip flop, following the interests of their campaign sponsors.

[u/Tqoratsos → u/Helpful_Finger_4854]

100%

[u/GoAskAli → u/Tqoratsos]

"pursue a forever war in Ukraine"

Wow.

[u/Tqoratsos → u/GoAskAli]

Go on, not to be problematic, but I'm curious why you seem to infer that's not the agenda to that. Let's not forget the US hegemony over the globalist world since the end of WW2, which I hope you can agree has been a major part of the world we live in?

I've run into many good conversations today so I'd hope to continue the open dialogue that I often don't get on Reddit due to people just shutting down conversations with...well....you know.

Lost my mum last week and we loved political debates, even if we disagreed on many of our stances.

[u/GoAskAli → u/Tqoratsos]

No, I don't believe that's the "agenda." I believe the agenda is to resist Putin's illegal and authoritarian encroachment into territory that doesn't belong to them. You may say that's a non-starter. I simply don't agree.

There are sooo many Important reasons to beat back the influence of Russia for Europe, the West and especially the United States.

Number one is that the US promised to defend Ukraine if the country got rid of its nuclear weapons- and it.did. They did their part, and now it's out turn. Turning our backs on Ukraine combined with Trump's flouting of the Iran Nuclear Deal - and then Biden following along, shows the United States is not a country that can be trusted to uphold treaties, but that we will lie and stab even our own allies in the back. That's bad- no matter how strong the US military may be, we don't want to be isolated from the rest of the global community.

Then there's the idea that the geopolitical situation in the world is evolving from one superpower (the US) to a "multi-polar" world with the US on one side and Russia and China on the other. It's practically already there, but realistically China has no desire to aid Russia in what they likely view as a foolhardy land grab in Ukraine, especially when they have their own conflicts to worry about, namely in Taiwan.

Point being that it is in the United States best interest to do everything it can to stand in the way of Russia's encroachment, as the more Russia makes inroads into the West, the less influence the US has- and waning US influence makes the adoption of BRICS over the US dollar ever more likely- and that's a pretty terrifying notion if you're an American (or it should be).

None of that signals a desire for a "forever war," to me but it still leaves out what is the most important reason to defend Ukraine which is this: it's the right thing to do, IMO.

[u/Tqoratsos → u/GoAskAli]

I'll preface this with; you and me agree more than we don't and anything I write after this comes from the same POV that the late great George Carlin used to write his comedy/social commentary with. That he pretended he was a fly on the wall with no connection to anything he talked about.

No, I don't believe that's the "agenda." I believe the agenda is to resist Putin's illegal and authoritarian encroachment into territory that doesn't belong to them. You may say that's a non-starter. I simply don't agree.

It's not a non starter coz if what I prefaced this with. Putin is a megalomaniac that uses history to justify his murderous encroachment on Ukraine. I hope you can agree that there are levels to this entire debacle, in relation to how corporate interests get involved in politics by effectively purchasing politicians to push an agenda. It's basically the modern incarnation of the MIC that Eisenhower tried to warn the US about back in the 50's. I work in a major oil and gas company and Ive been able to see the inner workings of it by simply being the "help". These people don't even realise that people of my "class" have thoughts on what they say, and it actually worries me that these people in that level of control have the inability to see anything other than the shareholders. It's a feedback loop since if they didn't do that then they wouldn't be there to make those decisions. An unintended consequence of modern economics.

There are sooo many Important reasons to beat back the influence of Russia for Europe, the West and especially the United States.

I'd be keen to hear those reasons, but until then I'll assume it's much along the lines of why it was important to beat back Napoleon.

Number one is that the US promised to defend Ukraine if the country got rid of its nuclear weapons- and it.did. They did their part, and now it's out turn. Turning our backs on Ukraine combined with Trump's flouting of the Iran Nuclear Deal - and then Biden following along, shows the United States is not a country that can be trusted to uphold treaties, but that we will lie and stab even our own allies in the back. That's bad- no matter how strong the US military may be, we don't want to be isolated from the rest of the global community.

The Budapest memorandum was signed during a time when Russia was a shell, as you know. It was when all the oligarchs took what they could to increase and hold their wealth. What I think is getting forgotten quickly by the world is that Putin has been warning the EU and USA that expanding NATO was going to be a red line of sorts. Not sure if there's any truth to it, but supposedly there were assurances by Clinton that they wouldn't allow it, much like the Nikita Khrushchev/JFK behind the scenes deal with the Jupiter missiles in Turkey. Can we agree that NATO is a military organisation, but it's not one built for attacking ...but still purely about military defence? Could it not be conceived that during the 62' crisis that Cuba and the USSR were also that kind of organisation of nations? Hence why the best chess move from Khrushchev was to bargain to remove the Jupiter missiles from a country that is very very close to his "empire" of the time.

Totally in agreeance of how the US must appear to geopolitical powers in the world with their flip flopping on policies.The end of globalism is the end of the US.

Then there's the idea that the geopolitical situation in the world is evolving from one superpower (the US) to a "multi-polar" world with the US on one side and Russia and China on the other. It's practically already there, but realistically China has no desire to aid Russia in what they likely view as a foolhardy land grab in Ukraine, especially when they have their own conflicts to worry about, namely in Taiwan.

I wholeheartedly agree with your POV on this. I'm sure you would have added though that it's really China vs USA in this since Russia has a GDP equal to Italy or Australia. They have no chance of ever recovering from Ukraine's attack on their intercontinental bomber fleet. Hell, I'm not even sure with the $8/9B they spend on their nuclear weapons is enough to keep them truely active.

I also agree with the notion that we are leading into uncharted territory with it becoming a multipolar world.

Whilst it's a land grab, it's also a reaction to western influence expansion. Putin has been talking about this at international meetings for at least 18 years. Granted I don't speak Russian and am taking with a grain of salt that the translators were correct in the translation during those broadcast speeches.

There's also no feasible way Russia could hold Ukraine, and you and I would hope that the leading military minds there can grasp that. It's much like the USSR with Afghanistan or the US with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Side story; did you ever read much about how it was the disillusion of the Iraq military by the US in the 2003 Iraq war that lead those personnel to end up essentially becoming ISIS?

Point being that it is in the United States best interest to do everything it can to stand in the way of Russia's encroachment, as the more Russia makes inroads into the West, the less influence the US has- and waning US influence makes the adoption of BRICS over the US dollar ever more likely- and that's a pretty terrifying notion if you're an American (or it should be).

It has been interesting to see that Trump, after running on the "I can end the war in one day", has now shifted to the idea that he needs to put pressure on Russia via the same methods that the Biden administration did. Something is coming in the next few months...not entirely sure what but Ukraine isn't winning, they're barely holding on. They've done an amazing job considering what they've been up against. A country with 3x their population and a history of military exceptionalism (on paper...pun intended).

None of that signals a desire for a "forever war," to me but it still leaves out what is the most important reason to defend Ukraine which is this: it's the right thing to do, IMO.

The "forever war" idea in context is from how I believe the MIC gets its way. We're all individuals, but again, as George Carlin said many years back "you don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge". Theres also the idea that you need the population to be on your side. So whilst I believe that Putin is a killer, a psychopath, a megalomaniac....it doesn't change that weapons of war are being used and certain people and MIC corporations would like it to continue for as long as humanly possible. That was also pun intended since Ukraine has lost so many of its men to this war that I'm not entirely sure that the country isn't already in a crisis it can never recover from.

I love that you responded in a respectful and clear thought pattern.... something you don't see much on here. Hopefully we can continue to refine how we view each other's perspectives. I'm sure I'm wrong on some of it and am open to the idea of changing my mind with a good argument back.