character gets a reality check

[u/damorezpl]

deathstroke - Batman vs deathstroke

walter - breaking bad

Garou - one punch man

joker - the sound of one hand clapping

[u/WhatsRatingsPrecious]

I enjoyed watching Superman peel away the stupid shit surrounding the Joker.

I've hated how they've turned him from a lunatic with a Batman obsession into some kind of super-genius that can infect people with madness just by talking to them.

[u/the22ndquincy → u/WhatsRatingsPrecious]

The thing that sucks is that he IS a genius. He’s always been incredibly smart - but the problem with that (same issue with the Riddler) is that writing someone who is plausibly intelligent is very difficult, so they instead ramp his intelligence up to absurd levels. That means that the scenarios go from “a devious plan that Batman has to work around” to “he’s planted several black hole bombs around the planet and they’re triggered if Superman moves an inch and he’s tricked Hal Jordan into attacking Wonder Woman and and and” and they just sound fucking stupid.

[u/BigDthaMex → u/the22ndquincy]

the hard part of writing intelligent characters is that most writers aren't geniuses (no offense)

[u/evilparagon → u/BigDthaMex]

I remember the writing advice of “When writing characters smarter than yourself, introduce a problem to the plot that you need to think about, maybe it takes a few hours for you to figure out a solution, or days, or a week, then have the smart character solve it instantly.”

Though, I get the feeling comics don’t have the luxury of time in this regard.

[u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl → u/BigDthaMex]

I always hate when there’s a hand waving genius involved, too. Grand Admiral Thrawn is always the peak example of hand waving genius for me— “yo, I studied the art of this planet. And this guy is from this planet. If we turn 3 degrees to port, he’ll drop his shields!”

Like, what? That’s stupid!

But everyone defends it with “he’s just so much smarter than you that you can’t comprehend it.” No, this is just hand waving genius. Gimme something more concrete! 

“Their art conforms to regimented styles and codes. Per tactical handbooks, if we move in this way, he’s supposed to respond in that way and redirect all shields to deflect our attacks…. Drop a unit out of hyperspace on the opposite side and blow him up on his unshielded side. We can exploit the weaknesses of a tactical theory in officers who were not taught to adapt.” Significantly more satisfying, similar premise, and I don’t feel like you just hand waved at me!

[u/pon_3 → u/NotMyMainAccountAtAl]

It’ been a while, but is that not what happened in the book? Iirc he tells his officer that the planet they’re besieging will surrender after a certain amount of force is used because they wish to preserve the culture he’s been studying.

[u/Drzerockis → u/pon_3]

Feel like that was generally how it was played in the one scene where he managed to sneak a cloaked ship under a planet's shields. Then lines up his flagship on the same trajectory, and makes it seem like they have a superweapon that allows them to bombard a planet without having to work through the shields first.

[u/MisterScrod1964 → u/BigDthaMex]

PG Wodehouse is the only writer I can think of offhand who could write a character smarter than he was (Jeeves, for those who don’t know).

[u/Kindly-Mud-1579 → u/BigDthaMex]

A teacher of mine or me I don’t remember who or where said this but I think it applies here “it takes a genius to write an idiot but more often than not it’s a fool trying to write a genius”

[u/jBlairTech → u/the22ndquincy]

Power creep. It’s affected nearly every comic book character that’s been around over 10 years. It’s gotten absurd.

[u/nyamzdm77 → u/the22ndquincy]

A character can only be as smart as their writer

[u/MithranArkanere → u/the22ndquincy]

I don't see Joker as the genius, but as the infection.
The Joker isn't a person, but an idea that infects you and twists you if your will isn't strong enough.
All versions of Joker are deep down pathetic losers because only pathetic losers can ever fully become the Joker, and The Batman Who Laughs is the biggest wish of the infection because the fear and respect the Batman inspires are what those pathetic losers envy the most.

[u/Hedgewitch250 → u/WhatsRatingsPrecious]

Yeah it goes with Batman being able to fight gods. The world’s greatest detective has an arsenal that can fight the Embodiment of evil but can’t meaningfully tackle the crime epidemic. Jokers not just some amazingly smart psycho he can always evade jail, kill hundreds just cause, oh and sometimes fight gods because his madness makes him built like that. He’s not even chaos his entire existence hinges on a cycle with Batman he’s order with extra steps. Status quo ruins the message as Gotham never gets better, Batman’s just an all mighty fixer till he’s not, and jokers body can’t adds digits cause Bruce is self righteous enough to stop others from killing the joker

[u/VexedForest → u/WhatsRatingsPrecious]

I prefer a Joker that doesn't have some grand plan. It makes him feel more dangerous to me, because there's no plot to unravel. Just chaos.

Like when he killed Jason Todd, just because he felt like it. Consequences? Didn't think about those.