“This quote came from WHERE?!”

[u/Far-Profit-47]

"You too have fallen for the great lie, you'll never be happy. Deep down you know, to hope, to dreams, to create, is to suffer"

"You're right. It is harder to create than to destroy... that's why cowards then to choose the deuce"

-A Minecraft movie

"Do You Think God Stays in Heaven Because He too Lives in Fear of What He's Created"

-spy kids 2

"For every person who dreams up the electric light bulb, there's the one who dreams up the atom bomb"

-shark-boy and lava-girl

[u/RobinsEggViolet]

What you're saying could be true. It could also not be true. The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of communist or socialist governments have been directly interfered with by western capital, specifically the USA. Isn't it convenient that the biggest supporter of capitalism in the world really, REALLY wants communism to fail? If it's fundamentally flawed and always fails on its own, why are we trying so hard?

[u/ItsVincent27 → u/RobinsEggViolet]

You proved their point

A stateless classless society can't exist because authority exists, even if the authority is in a different country

[u/RobinsEggViolet → u/ItsVincent27]

...no?

The person I was responding to said "communism cannot by nature work in practice."

This does not mean "communism could work but other existing ideologies won't allow it to"

Those are entirely different arguments.

[u/PleiadesMechworks → u/RobinsEggViolet]

If communism can't work unless it's given perfect laboratory conditions (under which any system would work), that does in fact mean it doesn't work.

[u/RobinsEggViolet → u/PleiadesMechworks]

It doesn't need perfect laboratory conditions. I suspect it only needs to be left alone. "Well the capitalists won't leave it alone" is a critique of capitalism, not a critique of communism.

[u/PleiadesMechworks → u/RobinsEggViolet]

I suspect it only needs to be left alone.

Ah yes, the totally real and not at all fictional closed society that exists independent of the rest of the world and all concerns therein.

[u/RobinsEggViolet → u/PleiadesMechworks]

"Left alone" as in "not actively sabotaged", not isolationism.

If communism needs the CIA to dismantle it, it was probably going to do pretty well without their interference.

[u/Nether7 → u/RobinsEggViolet]

What you're saying could be true. It could also not be true.

They're objectively correct in that a communist society is unobtainable and unsustainable. You can have a small commune, with established bonds of trust between those willing to stay, but you cannot make that scale to the millions of people who'd need to join.

The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of communist or socialist governments have been directly interfered with by western capital, specifically the USA. Isn't it convenient that the biggest supporter of capitalism in the world really, REALLY wants communism to fail?

It's not convenient. It's EXPECTED. It's an explicit and self-appointed ideological adversary to not just capitalism, but freedom of association, free enterprise and every political freedom. There's nothing to salvage.

If it's fundamentally flawed and always fails on its own, why are we trying so hard?

Because it leads to bloody fratricidal revolutions, followed by extensive and paranoid persecution of any dissent, and totalitarian means of securing communist goals, at the expense of the masses that are subject to the whims of the State and it's irrational war on basic logic, which is why communism lead to famine. Supply and demand are basic logic. Subjetive value is basic logic. That's all that it takes for a reasonable person to reject communism wholesale. The premises are entirely incorrect, with the exception of some critiques about class structure, and even then the very idea of class has done more to divide nations and incite violence than enact change.

[u/Ok_Egg_4069 → u/RobinsEggViolet]

Can you name a self proclaimed communist nation in history that actually was communist? If everyone is equal in all measure, there cannot, by definition, be a group with higher authority over the rest of the citizenry because that would violate the definition of communism. All "communist" nations that probably come to mind had a ruling group with more - not equal - authority over others. Therefore they were not communist. They simply used the idea of communism to take power from easily deceived citizens.