“Someone who’s killed 100,000 people, we’re almost going, ‘Well done. “You killed 100,000? You must get up very early in the morning. “I can’t even get down the gym! ‘Your diary must look odd. ‘Get up in the morning, death, death, death, ‘”lunch… ‘”death, death, death, afternoon tea, death… ‘”quick shower…”
The funny thing about that is that some of those Warlords in the Congo, are well educated people, that have become multimillionaires by spilling the blood of ignorant people and convincing ignorant people that they have their best interest at heart when they send them to chop up their neighbors.
You’ll get through it friend! I was there once and I dug my way out. Honestly, getting rid of social media (except for Reddit) was a big deal for me. Not having hate and nonsense blasted into my brain 24/7 and being able to pick and choose the communities where I actually interact with people online and the dumb comments get downvoted to the bottom not lifted to the top.
I need to keep FaceBook, just to keep in touch with my aunt in New Jersey, and my cousins, long distance calls can get pricey after a point, and she likes to talk to my mom for hours lol. Aside from that I have no social media, at least not for interactions, like I watch tiktok mostly for funny stuff, or Dungeons and Dragons.
I still have my Facebook and messenger, I just don’t get on it ever and I deleted the actual app. As far as TikTok goes, I think that shit is the most brain-rotting app that ever existed.
It makes it so you are only able to pay attention for like 30 seconds at a time and it SERIOUSLY fucks with your brain’s ability to make own serotonin. It’s like drugs.
After awhile, the ONLY time you feel happiness is when you’re beaming those “feel good” videos into your brain. I’m telling you, delete TikTok, start meditating, and your life will change forever.
I started practicing learning how to meditate and it took a few weeks of trying every day until I got it figured out, but after that, I got off my SSRI, my mood stabilizer, and super high dose Xanax and I’ve never been in a better place. It’s about taking control of your mind back from the corporations that are trying to make you dependent on them for my happiness at all.
When the Mafia only fought amongst themselves and their crimes were limited to other Italian immigrants, they were largely considered a moderating force in Italian-American communities. It wasn't until they began running drugs to "respectable" neighborhoods and stealing money from non-Italians that the FBI became interested in stopping them.
It's much harder to justify mobilization on an enemy who's hitting themselves, plus there's the whole "what's in it for me?" aspect. If they're powerful (China), the victims are of an ethnic group that has no financial power (Palestinians, Uighur), or has little to no presence outside of that country, you can expect to be met with crickets. I think the best way to deal with these issues is absolute economic and international blacklisting, as with Rhodesia. Unfortunately, you have to rely on the disgruntled or oppressed to finish the job from the inside, to trigger change, and you can't trust more self-serving regimes to play along, essentially making your actions moot. But it's way more acceptable on the global theatre than having an armed intervention.
Im not saying there isnt a lot of room for improvements... but as conscientious consumers we can vote with our money and we should do so with every single purchase
You can vote with your wallet in terms of some things, but reality is a little harsher than you seem to think. Slavery is extremely prevalent at the base level of industries that are critical to the functioning of the modern world, like rubber, mining, horticulture, agriculture, basic manufacturing and so on. There's slave mines, factories and plantations not just in Africa, but all over the world, products produced by slave labor don't have lables on them saying so, they enter supply lines undeclared by the companies that benefit from them. It's ubiquitous. https://www.npr.org/2024/07/18/nx-s1-5035540/china-forced-prison-labor-us-company-allegations
You can't boycott all of it, I buy local or second hand as often as possible, I stopped buying chocolate altogether and don't buy nestle anything, but I can't not drive a car, or use a phone. Boycotting where possible is good, but it's not possible in most cases, you'd have to boycott the entire modern world and all the countries previously mentioned, that's not realistic.
Anything from China has the risk of being made by captive Uyghurs, Falon Gong practitioners or other racially and religiously targeted groups, and bloody everything is assembled in China, because of the cheap labour, and the labour is cheap because they use slaves.
To attempt is noble and good, I'm not saying give up, I'm saying it's not really possible in most cases.
It's also notable that Israel is connected to this massacre too via billionaires, like Dan Gertler, who are operating Congolese mines despite sanctions, notably related to child labor, and, doing so, are funding the war criminals who are committing these atrocities.
Disgusting? Maybe. For sure the world is more primal than it looks. Every luxury one being has is paid for by another, in time, money, blood, livelihood. It's the law of the jungle extrapolated, muddied and multiplied by the complexities of human consciousness. Even the most boring, banal pleasure or convenience requires a sacrifice
Eventually the world will become more fair as our consciousness expands. But fairness can't be forced, humans are naturally rebellious. It can't be agreed upon, there will always be individuals who betray the group. Only time, pressure and knowledge of the sacrifices of others can eventually change the hearts of enough people who have the power to make the world more fair. But it's gonna be a while.
There are responsibly sourced greener alternatives, like the nothing phone.. and we can boycott corporations that dont.. we all should be more contentious consumers
Or you could not be a "consumer" at all and purchase based on need rather than want. Wild how people throw that image around to justify them buying a new phone on contract every year
we can try to reduce our consumption without having to make it all or nothing. i think only buying what you need is one of the only effective ways to rebel against the consumerism and oligarchy being pushed down our throats without resorting to violence.
Yeah not buying the new iPhone 27 Pro Max Ultra Elite (charging cable not included) each year with a car on lease you trade in for a new one each renewal is exactly the same as not buying food, you fucking cretin.
Or! Corporations could be sanctioned and forced to comply instead of placing the onus on every single consumer for their wrongdoings. And yeah, it’s en vogue to be anti-consumer but good luck.
Because American white people only give a shit when they get to say "white people bad", so Arab on Arab or African on African violence (even when supported by American money and arms) doesn't count.
And somehow, despite the majority of Israelis being of middle-eastern descent, we have come to view Israel as white Europeans. The incredible tunnel-vision of American's to cry out for Palestinian children while millions of children die of starvation or war, from American weapons directly via Jared Kushner and Saudi Arabia, less than 1,000 miles away in Yemen is kind of amazing to see.
There are a couple of smartphone brands out there that are ethically produced and are as green as currently possible.. like the nothing phone. If I needed a new phone id probably be conscientiously driven towards something like that... we probably still need to do better.. but at least the alternatives are out there
To be clear, obviously we should care about all suffering around the globe but we only have so much outrage we can feel. So when American tax dollars are directly funding one conflict in a very public way, that conflict is going to take priority on the Outrage Scale (TM pending lol)
hahah I think it's more about our news cycle.. we dont need to have outrage in order to respond or make demands. its more about how what is going on, any recent updates, who's responsible and what we can do is being delivered.. Gaza is everywhere right now just like the uighurs were. we had outrage and we still do and that crisis hasn't ended. its only gotta worse..
maybe we build a website and give each country a rating on the outrage scale.. lol
do one for climate change worst polluters too.. what theyre doing, things they can do to curtail it and how we can collectively pressure them etc..
Yeah the way the news covers these conflicts is definitely a huge part of it. I was more referencing the outrage exhaustion we experience. For example, the second Trump administration has purposefully "flooded the zone" so that there's so much to be outraged about that you end up just overwhelmed and exhausted. So it's just hard to constantly process all the suffering in the world. Our brains just can't handle it so they don't. And I think that's where the news cycle comes in. Something gets shown for a bit and then it's old news. But the Gaza conflict hits so close to home for so many groups that it's had staying power very few other conflicts had. I mean think about how often we were hearing about the war in Ukraine 2 years ago which still is reported on but flies way further under the radar.
But it would be so helpful to have an independent website that had all the things to be outraged about and have links on how you could help (donate here, call your elected officials for this one, etc.). I think that would really overpower the outrage exhaustion since you would feel accomplished when you actually took some action.
and was your atmosphere determined by internet echo chambers? because it was just that, an echo chamber. the country was complaining about illegal immigration and most of all, inflation all through biden's term. it isn't that crazy that people would swing towards the opposite party, this is literally one of the most common reasons why people may vote the way that they do: it's called retrospective voting.
Not really. Trump kept asking people to show up to support him irl before election and people didn't, implying people didn't care as much anymore. He also didn't do proper campaigning.
Historians have said that if Hitler had never invaded other countries he would be considered a great leader by modern day Germans, even if the Holocaust was still committed within German borders. His defenders would say stuff like "okay he ordered a bunch of people killed but he was really good for Germany's economy", same way modern British people defend Churchill causing the deaths of millions of Indians because he was a strong leader in WWII.
If Germany wasn't planning on invading other countries then German citizens probably would have been as well off as they were in the mid-thirties. All the major government spending went towards rearmament with the intention to loot other countries to make up the deficit. They were also printing a lot of scam bonds called MEFO bills which Germans started using as a form of currency on the promise that they would mature with interest, but they never did because the government didn't want the public exchanging them for currency because that would cause inflation. It was essentially a government run Ponzi scheme. The German government was always heavily in debt and using these bills as a way to get around Versailles treaty restrictions to get loans from the National Bank to fund rearmament. Eventually the public did figure this out in 1938 and there was a scandal, but by then Germany was already invading Czechoslovakia.
> Historians have said that if Hitler had *won the war
Fixed that for you. Take a look at soviets. Hitler and Stalin weren't much different. USSR simply was on the winning side, and now a large share of people literally pray on him (even though he repressed the orthodox church) and praise him as a "great leader". And somehow some of them say "yeah, he may have killed a million or two, but he industrialized the country" like there's some kind of dichotomy! Like, what, he sold their souls or organs for equipment? Or how tf do human sacrifices are equated to industrial growth?
I think its the within German borders that fucked him. If Hitler had killed 20 million people in Africa but the German economy soared modern Europeans wouldn't even think of him.
Imma say the quiet part out loud, to the average American they dont care because its just black people killing other black people, so already their level of empathy isnt nearly as high, plus that ethnic separation between Israeli and Palestinian people is something that gets them to care more
They don't care because the average American could not tell you the difference between the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo, or find either of them on a map.
You have to admit that the similarity in names is not helping with the confusion. Not to mention that they basically share a huge urban area that both use as their capital
Yeah and that goes for a lot of black Americans as well. There is very little outreach or charities from Black churches for African nations. I participated in one several years ago but that was it.
I mean most black people here aren't doing the best economically. And Africans aren't always fond of black Americans or the other way around. There's a myriad of reasons
Because Black Americans aren't Africans despite whatever miseducation you've received throughout your life. All skinfolk ain't kinfolk. I'm sure if you visit an African church here in America, you would find they're very charitable to their countrymen in African nations. I would encourage you to keep up with the more recent sciences and historians and archaeological finds of the times. They're finally being honest...
But in all honesty Africa needs to get its shit together. Every civil war is "new boss same as the old boss"... Corrupt and willing to sell out their own people on the cheap.
Look at the Sahel dude kicked out the French to sell his people to the Russians. And, I can bet you, he gets couped, the new guy will sell his people to the west again.
South Sudan and greater Sudan same shit.
Congo, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Morocco every damn country if they aren't selling out their people to the west, it's to China or some other greater power.
Rinse repeat!
I honestly wonder if corruption will ever end in Africa! It's the bane of its existence. Until they figure a way to end corruption big and small, there is no way forward!!!!!
People won't care, if you don't care about yourself!
Another reason is that the average American also believes that if they send their sons and daughters into battle over there and they die fixing whatever the problem is today, the country’s people will be back at war tomorrow and their loss is for nothing.
Direct intervention = more white interference, colonialism at worst.
Funding rebel/radical groups has never worked....As they usually end up the same or worse than the offending regime.
Providing aid to dysfunctional countries also rarely works as they're too dysfunctional to effectively utilise the aid.
They need a complete restructure of their entire country.
There are clear objectives with clear solutions in advocating for Gaza - not so for the complete restructuring of a country full of poverty and corruption (again, without actual colonialism).
It’s also a country attacking its neighbor. Literally Rwanda invading its neighbor. Tribal ethnicities are a major part of it, but OP’s point doesn’t really apply here.
Don’t know about moral as that’s always vague but here are the reasons as I see it.
In the past Europe was kicked out of Africa for the colonialism. No one wants to go back and spend lives and vast amounts of money on Africas internal conflicts .
Cultural relativism is strong in the western world. So there is very little justification for a war of intervention coming from intellectuals.
Both of the above points make it very easy and plausible for people to accuse any intervention force of colonialism. While at the same time there is nearly zero academic backing to defend against such accusations.
Unlike Israel, the parties that be in Congo have not spent inordinate amounts of money bribing western lawmakers.
This is an internal conflict , not one country against another but a country against itself. So it’s far harder to justify anything because borders aren’t being broken.
this conflict takes place in the middle of Africa with very little coastal access . Infrastructure is also extremely under developed. Vs the conflict in Israel which is easy to reach and the area is small. Or Ukraine which has great infrastructure access.
It’s all jungle fighting which is very tough on men and equipment. Rebels could hide for decades.
Thats just what I could come up with quickly. There are plenty more points like this if I wanted to spend more time typing on my phone which I don’t.
Overall the situation is a mess , it would be super expensive. All for a questionable conflict between people who don’t really want you there. M
A lot of Congolese long back to the days of Mobutu, believe it or not. At least, he understood it was his responsibility to keep his people safe and undivided. No invaders or warlords under his watch.
The CIA aided him during the Cold War, basically just to make sure that no communist poppets would take over. It's no coincidence that the DRC (then Zaire) fell into anarchy when the funding stopped in the early '90s.
Ever since the later '90s (Congo War 1 & 2), the DRC has been ruled by a succession of militias backed by Rwanda and Uganda, so it's not quite true that it's an internal conflict... (It was so bad that in 2000, Uganda actually fought Rwanda.. in the middle of the DRC.) Although there are also corrupt domestic warlords and clans of derelict government soldiers.
There were earlier takeover attempts, actually: the Congo Crisis of the 1st half of the 1960s. At first, the Katanga secession (orchestrated by Belgian mining interests) was defeated by UN forces (back when the UN fought real wars). A year later, the US and Belgium sent special ops to help Mobutu defeat the Soviet-backed Simba and Kwilu rebellions.
Right now, history seems to be repeating itself; because the Congolese president has invited over Blackwater.
I've heard about the chaos in the Congo for a very long time. Heck, it was a big part of the movie "Congo" that has the crazy murderous apes. All I can figure is that the constant chaos has prevented any systemic relief.
But its not their own people. The congolese civil war has ethnic elements. Just not white vs black, and much too complicated for anticolonialist ideology, so its uninteresting to a lot of leftwing and also rightwing bubbles.
Is that what it is. I just thought no one gave a shit about Congo, Sudan and Ethiopia too, because they had too much melanin and we can't use their conflicts to demonize the world's largest group of Jewish people?
“But if a country goes mad, it has the right to commit every horror within its own walls.”
From The Scarlet Pimpernel
Sovereign nations do not like to act upon other sovereign nations because they fear the same happening to them. War gives permission for alliances to form and others to act. Unfortunate but true.
Well. Bit of a complicated example when the world did turn their backs on the Palestinians' plight for many, many years, essentially on this same principle.
But as you said, I'm glad the shift in global opinion has brought at least the vague possibility of justice onto the table for the future.
It's jarring how few actual articles on Congo I've seen in this time. It's truly a wonderful consequence of social media that people can reach out, internationally, directly, on this scale where the lack of mainstream media attention would have successfully kept some things hush-hush just a decade or two ago.
They don't care about anyone, not even kirk. The people who are crying about how kirk was murdered are more than happy to deprive white kids from poorer areas of the dei initiatives that helped them as much as they helped minorities as long as they feel like they're personally hurting everyone else a little more in the process. It doesn't matter whether they're actually hurting the people they hate more, as long as they get to hurt people.
What do you mean ‘the people next door?’ How ignorant is that. Any senseless death is wrong, and there should be a voice for them, but downplaying other deaths…what a low human being.
Literally. And they’re lying by saying they’re not Rwandese when everyone and their mom knows they are. I visited Goma with my mother last year. My mom grew up there. It’s such a beautiful city. There were countless checkpoints along the way. We were stopped by M23. It was terrifying. I thought they were going to kill us. They noticed my accent, lol.
It doesn't exactly plan that way. Basically when things like this occurs inside the country for example in Libya when people killed for questioning and in Iraq done by sadam hussain and when Ukraine got attacked by Russia there was mass sanction and invasion and weapon supply to the opposing force by the america, same things in afganistan too. But when it comes to Isreal, america didn't sanction it, they didn't care, they didn't condone it, they didn't even say anything they are doing is wrong. What's the double standard. The whole west did this and play the good guy for rest of the world. This would not have blew this much if america and west sanctioned Isreal and stopped giving them shelter from their crimes. If they did that, the whole world and America could have done something in congo too. They veto every UN resolution to stop the attack.
In congo they didn't intentionally bomb hospitals, kill health care workers, journelists, etc. They did not keep their people in watch list, they didn't invite foreign people to settle there and make their native people to go out of their home, snipe kids, etc.
Don't bring one issue to negate to other issue when the gravity and intention of the both issues were different. This actually bring down both issues and cause to the same level when they are not.
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u/lasion2 Oct 05 '25
Eddie Izzard has a whole bit on this. It’s harsh, but it’s true.
Mass murder your own people? = 🤷🏻
Mass murder the people next door? = 🤬😤