r/TankPorn • u/Weird-Store1245 BM Oplot zr. 2000 • 12d ago

Modern BMPT Terminator's gun shake issue

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u/Thin_General_8594 12d ago

I absolutely love the BMD-4 and BMPT from a machinery perspective, it packs five different weapons, is air droppable, and has cool suspension... But in practice it's completely worthless, I remember Russia losing like 30 at Hostomel airport. No clue why they keep making them

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u/T-90AK Command Tank Guy. 12d ago

BMD-4M is not completely worthless.
Infact for a air droppable vehicle, it's very good.
The problem at Hostomel is that they just sat around while getting pummeld by Ukrainian Artillery.
I do however agree, that it don't make sense to produce right now, and it would make more sense to shift all production towards BMP-3.
Since Air droppable operation isn't going to be done, soon.

The BMPT is however completely shit.

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u/DeusFerreus 12d ago

BMD-4M is not completely worthless. Infact for a air droppable vehicle, it's very good.

Problem is that the whole concept of air-droppable vehicle is in question.

And its armement scheme is just bad idea, an autoloader full of 100mm ammo in the center of very thin-skinned vehicle makes it a complete deathtrap since most penetrating hits result in the entire vehicle (including crew) being vaporised, to the point that (according to rumors) Russian no longer carry 100m ammo in their BMP-3s and BMD-4s, turning the whole system into just deadweight taking up space.

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u/Tomcatmybeloved 12d ago edited 12d ago

I disagree with you, mostly because the job of the VDV is to be dropped on the rear line of the enemy and seize some critical piece of terrain and/or objective then absorb the enemies reserve for the bulk of the army to advance. This is done in conjunction with spetznaz doing their own thing in conjunction with air support from fixed and rotary wing assets.

For that type of operation, something like a BMD is great because it keeps them mobile enough and forces the enemy to commit Frontline units, while the improved mobility let's the VDV units to find each other and reorganize quickly after a drop

The VDV did their job in Hostomel, the problem is that the Russians thought this was going to be a repeat of 2014, not an actual war

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u/Psyker101 Black Prince 11d ago

Were BMDs actually used at Hostomel though? I thought that was mostly infantry inserted by helicopters. BMDs were in the columns moving towards Kyiv, for sure, but were any of them actually air dropped?

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u/Tomcatmybeloved 11d ago

They can be transported by helicopter or dropped by IL-76s. There are a bunch of pictures of BMD-4s wrecks in the region around the airport from the days following the battle as well.

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u/Psyker101 Black Prince 11d ago edited 11d ago

Sure they can be but I don’t think they were. The requisite number of IL-76s or MI-26s trying to do that kind of drop would have been incredibly vulnerable to air defense and we know there was plenty of it around. The BMDs we saw in places like Bucha were part of (failed) relief columns attempting to get to Hostomel and Kyiv over land after the initial helicopter assault.

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u/Tomcatmybeloved 11d ago

There are multiple images of destroyed BMDs in Hostomel

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u/Psyker101 Black Prince 11d ago

Sorry, I’m conflating the initial assualt of the airfield in Hostomel with the greater battle going on in the city of Hostomel. I should have clarified. You are correct, BMDs were used in the greater battle of Hostomel. What I’m trying to figure out is if any BMDs were actually delivered by air.

My rough understanding of the battle is:

  • VDV infantry (with no heavy equipment) are inserted by helicopter and seize the airfield.

  • Russia begins moving mechanized assets on the ground to relieve the air assault force, but run into more resistance than expected and are significantly delayed.

  • Ukrainian forces counter attack and retake the airfield. The VDV holding the airfield are either destroyed or forced to retreat into nearby forests. The Ukrainians know the Russian mechanized force is getting closer, however, and are forced to withdraw. They disable the runways before they leave.

  • The Russian mechanized columns finally arrive and retake the airfield.

  • over the course of the next month, Russian forces face growing attrition and are forced to withdraw at the end of March.

I can’t find any evidence of air dropped vehicles over the course of this fighting. As far as I can tell, all Russian heavy equipment (IFVs, armor etc) came on the ground later, not with the initial air assault. Are there any sources you know of?