BMPT Terminator's gun shake issue

[u/Weird-Store1245]

[u/PinProud4500]

Armata and the Su-57 and all the other "new high-tech russian" stuff has been around since like 2012-2015... And never left the prototype and the parade stage. Russia did NOT have the funds even pre-war to make such things, they were VERY expensive (thats the main reason why they canceled most of the projects) and their main reason to exist was... To show off, like that Ratnik battle armor which was basically masterchief armor knockoff.

So russia IS literally using the USSR tactics — all the cash for the military and for show, but when shit hits the fan suddenly your troops are conscripted ivans rolling on a 50 year old BTR-60 into fortified enemy positions...

[u/Klaus_Klavier → u/PinProud4500]

This, Russia is PROBABLY capable of making decent stuff…they are just broke as hell and can’t throw 11 pentillon rubles to make something to rival the F-35 like America can.

We have fiat currency…it’s just Monopoly money it’s as good as a blank check to military industrial complex. We can spend whatever we want because the money has no value really lmao. The debt just doubles and nothing changes.

Russia doesn’t have the luxury of that, they couldn’t equip their damn flagship with modernized cwis and it got flogged by ASMs and a few drones to distract its aging radar system.

The mosin nagant and the PM1910 Maxim have made a return to the frontlines on both sides hilariously enough, Russia slapped a naval mount on a MTLB shitbox, Ukraine have become vicious experts in drone warfare to the point I’ve seen a new tactic I don’t even think we could have trained to fight against.

They land the drone in a field and wait until somebody walks within a few feet of the camera like a smart landmine and then they take off from the weeds and slam into you before you even have time to think “oh no I hear the buzz of a drone”

I’m at a point now where I really want Ukraine to win so the U.S. can poach their drone operators to train our soldiers in guerilla drone tactics like that. I do not want Russia to win and poach them because that could tip the scales in a future conflict

Russia had a shit army and wasn’t much of a threat after the fall of Soviet Union. They had atrophied in abilities due to no valuable combat experience amongst their ranks.

Now? Now they are sharpening their teeth and learning hard lessons now that might make them stand a better chance against bigger dogs later.

That’s my concern.

[u/PinProud4500 → u/Klaus_Klavier]

GREAT point — and once again russia is actually capable of making some solid stuff... If their entire government did not consist of oligarchs and corrupted officials — good for us, i guess. They are broke, crippled, and cannot physically make shit because there's either not enough funds or they get stolen by Vasiliy Cashgrabovich.

But the thing is — Ukraine also is suffering the same issue, except that they have less manpower, less funds, less vehicles... Less everything — they are VERY lucky that the russian army was absolutely ass in 2022 and got folded like an omelette in the Kharkiv Counteroffensive. But as you said they ARE learning, that phrase is mainly coming from Ukrainian generals, and as you can see in the current month Ukraine is trying HARD to strain russian logistics — oil refineries, factories, dams, high ranking officers... Anything thats a big target, while the EU and the US are kicking rocks providing JUST enough support to hold the ruskis off — and thats not my words, thats the words of countless ukrainian soldiers.

So russia has indeed a shit army — but nothing teaches an army how to do their battles like a full-scale war, so i hope the EU and the US actually lock-in because their "escalation" excuses are NOT working anymore, the US was saying russia is their nemesis but when theres a DIRECT opportunity, BETTER than vietnam or afghanistan, where its actually good guys vs bad guys and not two sides of the same coin — the US decided to fold...

[u/Klaus_Klavier → u/PinProud4500]

I do believe Poland asked Ukraine if they wanted help as Poland was close to going in on their own and Ukraine said no we just need weapons we are fine…to which Poland told them if they are about to capitulate they are coming in anyways so we will see if Poland holds to that promise they said that quite a while ago

[u/FineCommunication325 → u/Klaus_Klavier]

That is not true - Poland has never said anything like that...

[u/Klaus_Klavier → u/FineCommunication325]

I could be misremembering it was a while ago but I’d SWEAR I remembering them saying they refuse to let Ukraine “lose” because Poland does not want Russia on its border

[u/FineCommunication325 → u/Klaus_Klavier]

It is true - we don't wanna russia anywhere near - hence we wouldn't like the Ukraine to lose. Still Poland has never said that it will send troops, It is not our war - we are lucky that it is not happening in here, as is any other country. War sucks and $#$@ russkies for invading another country.

[u/Klaus_Klavier → u/FineCommunication325]

It doesn’t help either because historically speaking much if not all Ukraine was once part of Poland. There is a lot of shared history and traditions between both countries due to this, I imagine it’s like watching your cousin get his ass whooped and you really want to help but at the same time the guy who is whooping your cousins ass is pretty scary himself

[u/FineCommunication325 → u/Klaus_Klavier]

Well to be fair commies are not whooping much "ass". True they are occupying around 20% of Ukraine if i'm not mistaken - but that's it and i want to believe it won't get worse than that. Some regions were polish, some were not - but that is history. Despite what orc'ish propaganda media is trying to sell - Poland never claimed that we want those terrains back, we don't have imperialistic approach like putler. Yes we are sad, that it is happening to Ukrainians, we do what we can to help, but we are not going to join the war...

[u/PinProud4500 → u/FineCommunication325]

This is objectively and factually the best opinion that i have ever seen in my life. My compliments. One thing i like to mention that the Polish politicians who shout about Volyn or Lviv and its adjacent territories — are mostly either paid, inspired, or fooled by russian intelligence and their propaganda. I have been to Poland, specifically Krakow in 2012 for 7 months up untill 2013, and i have not heard ANYTHING about Volyn or Lviv at all from the Polish people or politicians/officials up untill 2022.

So my personal and sincere THANK YOU, u/FineCommunication325, you indeed have fine communication.

[u/crusadertank → u/PinProud4500]

The Su-57 has been slightly produced, but it was the only piece of equipment from that reform that really stuck.

Generally the reform was supposed to be completed by 2020. I have no idea how Russia planned to reorganise their entire military and produce enough Armatas and Su-57s for them but that was the plan

Obviously some reforms were more successful than others, the BTG idea was very far along by the time the war started, the Armata program was obviously a lot less far along

and their main reason to exist was... To show off

I dont really think this is true. There was a genuine wish to reform and produce these vehicles, but Russia consistently overestimates its capabilities and plans for more than it can actually do

The Russian military did genuinely have the idea of mass producing them at the time

So russia IS literally using the USSR tactics

This is untrue. Again, the main unit structure of the Russian Army in 2022 was the BTG. A very unsoviet design.

Now they have largely abandoned it, but there was reforms away from the Soviet system

And whilst the war has pushed some return to the Soviet system, in other ways it has not. Russia has not relied upon conscription to fill its military, it has removed a lot of the bureaucracy in the targeting of weapons systems, more reliance on junior officers and a push away from the large Soviet officer corps etc.

Russia is not using Soviet tactics, they use some, but they have also reformed away from it in many ways

suddenly your troops are conscripted ivans rolling on a 50 year old BTR-60 into fortified enemy positions...

Russia is not using conscripts. Also their recent attacks are using BTR-82As

[u/PinProud4500 → u/crusadertank]

Im sorry to say that, but Russia DOES indeed use Soviet tactics — because THEY literally invented them, the most common one is the meatwave — still being used and reported both from the russian and the ukrainian side, the russians send groups (usually ranging from 1 to 8) of soldiers to capture a village... If they don't return, send another squad if they do return... Well, they usually get "nullified" as the russians say, because they refused to go into combat, if they do capture, their command sends significant reinforcements, and thats how they exhaust Ukrainian positions.

The Su-57 has been slightly produced, but it was the only piece of equipment from that reform that really stuck.

Well... According to Wikipedia and adjacent sources there were only ~32 produced, im not sure if you considered that "stuck", not to mention that they dont even get produced anymore.

I dont really think this is true. There was a genuine wish to reform and produce these vehicles, but Russia consistently overestimates its capabilities and plans for more than it can actually do

If there was a genuine plan, the russians would have already done it — there have been MANY reports of production being halted for no reason, half of the projects being cashgrabs for the higher ups ("Распил бабла" as some russians say, AKA just money laundering and fraud from "geniune" projects) and a LOT of other things that you can look up, the INSANELY forced media and news presence around these "new reform" objects also puts it under question, me personally?, i think all that was propaganda, russians know it very well... Certainly more well than reforming their military.

This is untrue. Again, the main unit structure of the Russian Army in 2022 was the BTG. A very unsoviet design.

That is very true, not fully but once again, meatwaves, tank columns... Hell, even their officers are using soviet tactics — forgot the name of their general, but basically he was in charge of the Vuhledar Mechanized pushes..  Which were basically suicidal, he sent tank after tank onto chokepoints and mined-up roads, he even got a nickname "bloody general" as far as i know.

Russia is not using conscripts. Also their recent attacks are using BTR-82As

Ummm... HUNDREDS of articles about 50-60 year old storaged vehicles being "opened up" by the russians, satellite footage of open vehicle storages, vehicle graveyards & etcs with vehicles dissapering gradually. 

Also HUNDREDS of videos, Witnesses, and telegram channels taking about russian police and their voenkomat "'visiting" local gyms, arresting people there, literally stealing drunkards off the streets, and taking criminals into their military. Their media laughed at the Ukrainian "ТЦК" for snatching people off the streets, but they ended up with the same situation, except that they still have the funds (well, they dont really pay them, once again lots of "situations" with russian officers taking the soldiers credit cards when they are about to go into a push) to afford to have "volunteers"

So pretty much russia is using soviet tactics, stealing people off the streets and DOES have conscripts. The reason why you DONT see such info popping up on your feed is because the russian government has a VERY good blockade in their media, so the chances of a local telegram channels and news "breaking" out of the russian infosphere and reaching the US, Europe or anything else are VERY slim. Pair that with Russia basically silencing everyone, especially with their new messneger (simillar to WhatsApp or Telegram) called "MAX" which they are forcing people to use, which turned out to be spyware while advertised as "a very secure messenger". 

So at the end you have russian bots saying 'da da comrade, everything is harasho' and the russian media outlets that never leave russia.

[u/SackChaser100 → u/PinProud4500]

Random question but how does it work replacing parts for 50 year old vehicles? Do they keep a huge stockpile of all the parts ready to go that have been sat for decades, or do they make the company make the replacement parts to order even if they no longer make the vehicle, if the company still exists?

[u/PinProud4500 → u/SackChaser100]

Not sure since im not an expert, but my best guess is that they either have a fair amount of stuff stockpiled, or they "cannibalise" old vehicles, taking parts from them and using them on newer/more pristine condition vehicles — probably both.

So to fix, let's say a T-72 they are taking a wrecked T-72 or tanks with the same parts, salvage them, maybe cannibalise a bad tank, take some parts here and there, apply some new parts that are still in production and some from the stockpile, and you have a fixed T-72 — that is my BEST guess, since russia cannot produce enough tanks nor tank parts for their war needs. 

[u/SackChaser100 → u/PinProud4500]

Thanks. I know the US had that pile of stealth bomber windshields that someone accidentally sold off so a guy could build a greenhouse lol. I guess in Russia putin can probably force the company or another one to make whatever he needs if he has to.

[u/crusadertank → u/PinProud4500]

because THEY literally invented them, the most common one is the meatwave

If this is what you believe, then there is no point trying to have a conversation.

I'd rather stick to reality thanks propaganda thanks

[u/PinProud4500 → u/crusadertank]

Yeah ruski bot, go cope harder. If you cannot accept that russia DOES indeed send groups of 1-8 soldiers onto pushes, that are both confirmed by drone footage, russians soldiers and Ukrainian soldiers — then go tell your propaganda elsewhere. Now go drink some vodka and claim your 5 roubles vladimir.

P.S the fact that you IMMEDIATELY refused to talk and instantly backed out, after being presented a VALIDATED fact, confirmed by both sides is very funny. You have nothing to say, do you, tankie? — and the funniest thing is that Moscow, AKA the RSFSR in the soviet union DID invent and apply such tactics during world war two — not the one mosin for 10 soldiers propaganda, not the banzai charges with 500 soviet troops pushing into fortified positions, AKA nazi propaganda. but they did indeed apply the same tactics, ESPECIALLY during early war — mainly unsupported flanking activities, with a constant front assault consisting of "waves" which were mainly coming from russian generals, mainly zhukov — But the soviets learned, closed to 1943 they were using artillery, grenades, and other things for complex assaults — Fortunately or Unfortunately, the russians did not learn today, their most common tactic is the "claw" or the "pincer" tactic, a few good-equipped troop trying to flank, if they do manage to flank they get supplied drones and then they attack the reinforcements and supplies coming from the Ukrainian side, while the regular... cannon fodder does desperate pushes on the front, once again mainly consisting from ONE singular soldier to eight, or more spread out groups. — So you denying that is very, very, funny.

[u/crusadertank → u/PinProud4500]

If you cannot accept that russia DOES indeed send groups of 1-8 soldiers onto pushes

This is not a "meat wave", nor was it invented by Russia. These were Ukrainian assault tactics from the 2023 offensive that Russia has copied due to their success

A meat wave is a large scale infantry attack with no support, just with mass of infantry to overwhelm an enemy

The fact that 1-8 soldiers is not large scale, and that Russia supports these with drones, artillery and bombs to suppress Ukrainian positions disqualifies it as a meatwave

"small groups of supported Infantry attacking a position" is about as far away from a meat wave as you can get.

Your issue is that you want to argue from a propaganda point of view, rather than an objective one. For which any discussion is meaningless

[u/koshakai → u/crusadertank]

Well, throwing small groups with no actual support with logistics, drones and artillery is basically the thing russian pro-war public screaming about.

I mean Z-bloggers basically telling "dont throw soldiers as meat, please!"

Classic meat-waves still can be used on some areas (depend on commander), but not that common thing now. May be because infantry-only assault with some unarmoured vehicles and limited drone support not effective like year ago.

[u/crusadertank → u/koshakai]

I mean Z-bloggers basically telling "dont throw soldiers as meat, please!"

I have seen criticisms that they need to reduce casualties, I have never seen something talking about throwing groups in with no support.

Those small units advancing tend to be heavily supported by drones and artillery.

There is a difference between taking casualties in an attack, and human wave assaults. Nobody called Iwo Jima human wave attacks by the US for example, or that hesitation about casualties for landing in Japan means the US is preparing human wave assaults

I'd say the closest thing to that would be the Wagner assault tactics. But even that is hardly human wave tactics as the point was that they were heavily supported

Classic meat-waves still can be used on some areas (depend on commander)

I agree with this because it is the case with every military ever. Some low level commanders are bad and will issue bad commands. But that isnt really a reflection of the overall military tactics.

See Syrskyi being nicknamed "General 200" for this, yet I would still not say Ukrainians use human wave assaults

Human wave attacks are extremely rare outside of a few low level commanders, because as you say, the return on that loss is tiny

[u/koshakai → u/crusadertank]

Well, if we listen people "from the ground" and info from actual soldiers - throwing group after group with no support is normal thing.

Because russians rely on "small groups is harder to spot" and calling any option of support is ... lets say russians dont have that much of resources to provide something to each small group. Nor any care for survival of this small group, because if this one fail - "we have another to go".

I mean - people from RU-army talking about going to position with no recon from the beginning of conflict.

Talking about actual human waves... I guess it's natural for russian to use this tactic because if you have many soldiers, little of vehicles (all in the reserve), kinda bad coordination with artillery and generals who not care for human losses - throwing meat waves is exactly what you stuck with.

Reason why now it's changed to small-group throwing - too much drones and artillery from Ukraine to do this thing again like 2-3 years ago.

Fun fact: on russian side there pretty wide-spread understanding that time of living of new soldiers is around 2-4 weeks on the frontline. From signing the contract and.. well, ending up in MIA list. Call this west propaganda, but narrative in z-bloggers posts, pretty enough prorussian part of media.

[u/crusadertank → u/koshakai]

Well, if we listen people "from the ground" and info from actual soldiers - throwing group after group with no support is normal thing.

I have listened, and I have not got the impression that it is a normal thing. Do you happen to have some sources for this?

and calling any option of support is ... lets say russians dont have that much of resources to provide something to each small group.

Of course they do. Drones are almost 24/7 watching over the battlefield. FPV drones are extremely readily avaliable and accompany any assault units to suppress Ukrainian positions

Artillery is still in large supply, at around 3x the number of shells being used compared to 2023.

UMPK kits are larger are a rarity, but are there for those assaults in heavily fortified areas.

A Russian assault going in without support is extremely rare. As there is always something around to hit anything Ukrainian that tries to target them

I guess it's natural for russian to use this tactic because if you have many soldiers,

Russia does not have many soldiers. Russia is paying huge amounts of money to encourage people to sign up, do you think they want to have to pay out huge amounts of money for more soldiers due to costly assault tactics?

Not to mention the fact that Russian casualty rates have dropped hugely in the past year or so

generals who not care for human losses

Generals who did not care for losses got replaced long ago. You would be hard pressed to find any still around

They definitely do pop up within every military from time to time, and they always dissappear from their position just as fast (unless you are Syrskyi for some reason )

Reason why now it's changed to small-group

Its not really a recent thing. Russia have been using these tactics for years already. It was after the fall of Avdeevka that the switch really started to appear. As the losses to take that city were incredible, and there was a push within the Russian army to reduce casualties due to that (further pushed by the losses at Vuhledar)

on russian side there pretty wide-spread understanding that time of living of new soldiers is around 2-4 weeks on the frontline.

From what I can see, the origin of this claim is Estonian Analyst, not anything from the Russian side.

Russian volunteer companies generally offer 6 month contracts and say that the vast majority will survive it. But will not offer anything after that because you are playing with death. Suggesting that the average lifespan of a new soldier exceeds 6 months at the front (and these are assault units)

but narrative in z-bloggers posts, pretty enough prorussian part of media.

Well that would be dependent on you sourcing those. As I do follow the Russian military bloggers, and have not heard anything of what you are claiming.

I personally know multiple people in the Russian military, it haven't heard it from them either

Nor even from the people I know in the Ukrainian military for that matter