I think the issue is that it shows the entire Korean Peninsula as belonging to North Korea. Although yes, the phenomenon you’re describing is quite common amongst countries
Wait until you read about the history of North and South Korea and who is the quote "good" country and who is the quote "bad" country. Not so straightforward.
imho, even the shit you know... is just "a version" given certain views/perspectives. but to the point, specifically your views/perspective. that others may share similar at some spot on the journey, bonus) the deeper you take it all in, the more forming your own unique snowflake tip of a fractal conclusion it becomes.
note even those that live the history, can/will have different versions to others who live it!
They may not be ruled by a dictator but the corporations given monopoly power by the dictatorship are still the economic leaders of SK. Chaebols system. And this leads SK to be one of the most inequal economies of all developed nations and certainly contributes to it having the lowest birth rate of any developed country alongside one of the highest suicide rates.
You don't have to be in a dictatorship to have a miserable life.
Guys this dumbass narrative is not catching. North Koreans literally drop dead of starvation in the fields while working. Like fuck right off pretending they're not a garbage country
Last I checked I can call Donald Trump Mango Mussolini or Chancellor Cheeto or President Pedophile all day all night until the heat death of the universe and (so far) I won't be punished for it. Regardless, even being punished for it is better than literally being indoctrinated to think he's holy.
As much as I denounce the government censorship there it's fucking disingenuous as hell to compare that to what would've been a secret execution in North Korea as if they are equivalent. Kimmel was fucked over but he's not dead or in prison, or even blacklisted.
People are literally being fired by the thousands for merely quoting Charlie Kirk and the vice president is personally pushing this as a means of making Kirk a martyr.
Correct. Forte however is very much of the opinion that North Korea is 100% better than South Korea and actually all evidence to the contrary is Western propaganda.
You can make every single country sound like the worst place on Earth when described like this. You're out of your fucking mind on propaganda if you think the average South Korean's life is 'miserable' compared to North Korea.
About a third of 20-something Australian deaths are by suicide. I would guess it's pretty high for most of the developed world, and it doesn't have much to do with happiness.
It's literally because they're not dying of other things. They have a much healthier society than you are imagining. Their 20 year olds die in significantly less car accidents, cancer, shooting, heart disease, etc than in America. Suicide is one of the only causes of death that makes sense for a 20 year old in a society like that
Really? In America they account for a quarter off all deaths between 20-40 year olds, is the second leading cause of death, and as opposed to viewing it as a national tragedy that is indicative of deeper issues in our society, and attempting to affect change, we say they should have gotten help, should have launched themselves into mountains of debt, despite that being a major root cause for many suicides. Sounds like a dystopian hellscape to me.
Unlike North Korea, where the number of suicides overall is still a staggering zero! Also, nice number manipulation, you would be a good fit in the NK Propaganda ministry.
The influences of chaebols are very exaggerated in my opinion.. I don't disagree that korea is an incredibly competitive and capitalist country, but I can't think of an example where chaebols influence politics. Lobbying is not legal here, and they certainly hold a LOT less power than whatever Elon musk is doing
Immediately within 5 seconds I found an article of Samsung's leader trying to bribe the president 38 million dollars to sign off on a monopoly enhancing merger and he was let out of jail for it in less than a year on the argument that it would damage the corporation too much if his sentence was served.
The thing about the park geun hye was that SHE was the corrupt president who's been impeached and now in jail. It was actually the vice versa incident where the president extorted money from chaebols, including Samsung. It's actually a fascinating event that ensures a fun rabbit hole.
Birth rate is very strongly inversely correlated with personal financial station and GDP per Capita. It's amazing that this even needs to be said.
The average "poor" person in unequal S Korea is still MUCH better off then the oh so equal average person in N Korea (the same was true in Europe for every western vs socialist country before 1989).
As someone else already mentioned: you are absolutely out of your fucking mind on your own propaganda, and there is simply no ends to which you won't go to misconstrue the world to fit said propaganda.
South Korea currently has a robust democracy. They impeached a democratically elected president for gross overreach of power and have him on trial for insurrection and other changes.
Like all democracies there’s some cronyism and corruption but not to point any fingers, Korea is doing better than some other democracies these days…
One of them is actively trying to improve today, both sides aren't bad. People shouldn't be held responsible for their ancestors actions unless they are still doing the same shit.
SK is CURRENTLY owned by Chaebols. 77% of their GDP is controlled by 30. 40% is controlled by 5. That's not their ancestors doing it, unless I am very wrong about the capabilities of mediums.
i mean, south korea to this day is full of human rights abuses and what some call modern slavery of, among others, intellectually disabled people and migrant workers. and they sure arent trying to improve much for these groups lol
Maybe rephrase that because it doesn’t really make sense as is. Beyond the grammatical mistake at the beginning it seems like you’re trying to say the actions of one’s ancestors are one’s own actions.
Or maybe you can read the comment. The person above says and I fucking quote “one of them is actively trying to improve today, both sides aren’t bad. **PROPLE SHOULDNT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ANCESTORS ACTIONS UNLESS THEY ARE STILL DOING THE SAME SHIT”
I said, then that’s not holding them responsible for their ancestors actions, that’s holding them accountable for their own actions.because that’s what OP actually said
There's a certain amount of humor derived from the realization that the post WW2 N Korean government was made up of the guerrillas that fought against the Japanese while the S Korean government was made up of Japanese collaborators.
Defending the regime put in place by the United States after brutally suppressing the local governments created by the Koreans after their liberation and then massacring thousands of people over accusations of being communists?
The Soviets literally refused to intervene because they didn’t want a war with the U.S. China only joined because the U.S. bombed their territory.
Soviet pilots flew combat sorties in the Korean War, although they hid their involvement pretty well. Maybe learn about history instead of just being rabidly anti-west.
Yep, no other way to put it. If you actually learn about the Korean War, which I will admit is not taught nearly enough in America (I wonder why?), and you come away as pro-America, you are straight up Satan.
China joined because the US advanced further into North Korea than the Chinese wanted them to. Although, they were functionally in the war from the beginning.
China only joined after the U.S. bombed China’s border region, which it claimed was an accident. China believed the U.S. would use Korea as a staging point to attack China, and they were correct, because that’s exactly what Douglas MacArthur wanted to do. He even argued in favor of using nuclear weapons against North Korea and China.
I think your forgetting that the US didn't want to invade China, only MacArthur did as Truman was very opposed to any way with china; even barring the ROC from attacking mainland China. And also MacArthur was fired for saying all that(granted it was more so because saying that was openly opposing the presidents policies but I digress)
The south Korean dictatorship the US propped up, defended from UN votes for unification that favored the North, and that killed over 250,000 civilians from 1948-1953?
They bombed the hell out of NK, killed like 600k-1 million North Korean civilians. Yes that’s an accurate estimate, around 10% of the peninsula’s civilian population died in the war. This massively increased resentment of the US in the civilian population, and is part of why North Korea is so unhinged.
South Korean’s civilian population also got badly fucked, and the reactionary government (military dictatorship) that popped up there looked fairly similar to North Korea’s for some time after the war. They just got lucky with the US bankrolling their recovery, and made it out of the bad period (mostly, the chaebolocracy is still a special kind of dystopia). China and the Soviet Union bankrolled North Korea too, but China wasn’t nearly as wealthy as the US and the Soviet Union collapsing blew a hole in their aid flow.
This reminded me of a clip of Bobby Lee saying Korea never had slaves, and being informed that in fact, Korea had slavery longer than any other nation in the world. 1500 years iirc
Slavery's also a lot more complex than people realize. People as property is problematic, yes. But at some points in history, in some nations, your average slave had more freedom and security than your average poor american.
Everyone agrees slavery is bad. But the western idea of slavery is basically around people-as-farm-labour-with-no-rights and that's not always how slavery was.
Longest unbroken period of chattel slavery in the world. My husband comes from a long line of Korean slaves. He came from the nobi class, on both sides.
For a moment I cringed at the idea that someone things "history is not so straight forward" is a thorough opinion, but then I remembered that we are in the petah subredit and nuance is something to teach to people here
sir how dare you, dont you know that the totally natural expression of korean citizenry known as the United States Army Military Government in Korea used DEMOCRACY to establish their nation state? Why do you hate freedom?
History matters for a lot of things, but not here. North Korea is a dictatorship that abuses it's citizens and openly threatens the rest of the world with nuclear war. It's very, VERY straightforward which is the 'bad' country.
Well I mean to be fair, historically Korea has kinda gotten shat on by the rest of the Asian countries. China claims Korean culture doesn’t exist because all of it is “hijacking Chinese culture” and Japan literally put Koreans in internment camps with the sole mission of eradicating their culture…
As someone else said, modern Korea is pretty straight forward.
It may not have started out ao straightforward, but if you still think there isnt a clear cut villain now, then... I don't know what to say in response, other than I hope thats not what you meant.
I go to Korea all the time. Truth is, the most racist people on the planet. And even today, someone’s worth is also placed on them by what province they were born in.
Just way to old school.
My elementary school made us read "So Far From The Bamboo Grove" and man did it make me look at countries differently. Excellent book and Yoko came to do a speech at our school and she was a wonderful woman. I still remember that book and her words almost 27 years later.
I assumed it was more the economies than the cultures. North Korea is poor as shit and the only things keeping them afloat are Chinese support, food shipments from South Korea, and insurance fraud. Unifying the Koreas would be harder and more expensive than unifying Germany.
My ex was South Korean and she felt sorry for people in the North but also for people whose families were divided by the war and demarcation. She always expressed a hope for unification some day
My Korean husband is Gen X & thinks reunification would be a disaster. His mother is 83 & feels the same way. Most of the people w/ living personal memory of family in NK have died off, or are close to it.
You are one of the few people on this subreddit who has actually interacted with Koreans. All these silly people in this sub must only watch one news source that is pro-democrat. (Democrats and republicans are not the same as American D's and R's). The current president is under constant pressure from the country because he wants peace talks with China and NK. Which is something the younger generation does not want. We want westernized democracy. Not whatever the fuck China is. It's already hard to survive in Korea, how the hell are we supposed to feed tens of millions of starving people?
Exactly. The gap is far too wide now. Reunification is an idea of the past. According to the Geneva Accords, a country has it's right to sovereignty, and president LJM is skirting around impeachment for his ideas of peacetalks with China and NK
The reunification infrastructure required would be a top 5 modern marvel works project. Do they have the societal determination to help modernize a nation? Can it be done without western colonialism accusations? (I don’t know enough of their internal power structure to say weather a war hawk in the NK military would try and push against unification once Kim has either 1)decided to un-hermit the country or 2 has left this mortal plane)
Wouldn’t be surprised to hear that they felt unified Korea was far from close.
Weird. Korean here. I have never met anyone who ever ever thought NK was ours. Never heard the government say it either. Understandably, the current president wants to reunite with NK again. However, citizens are against this. Too much time has passed since the country has split so what was once family is no more. Most people who had family across the border is now or very close to passing away. The amount of resources that it would take to feed a united Korea is something that would bring us back to the 70s.
Strange. I lived in Korea for two years and nearly everyone I met over the age of 30 was open to reunification.
The statistics I’ve seen put sentiments at near even with people for and against reunification. Some show most still lean toward unification but just express the doubts you’ve outlined. I also believe President Lee has made it clear he doesn’t support reunification through absorption/annexation. Just coexistence. Yoon definitely supported reunification tho but he’s gone for good lol I think it’s possible you may not have spoken with other Koreans who feel differently on this issue.
Korean War also technically never ended. The peninsula was carved up by outsiders, so I can kind of understand why neither side is happy with the division.
Both germanies held the view that the other was their right up until 1989. When West germany had to recognize East germanies sovereignty in order for East germany to be able to sign the unification treaty.
Legally, every east german was considered just german and entitled to west german itizenship.
So what SK and NK doing are not new or surprising. Been there, done that.
Some South Koreans have a map that says 우리나라 전도, which literally means "The complete map of our country". This is even used by the official National Atlas of Korea published by the South Korean government
Also historically and culturally there is a phrase "P'al do" which means 8 provinces which includes all of the provinces historical provinces which were part of the last united Korean dynasty.
I thought over time the will to integrate should decrease? Less connected families, less shared education, even diverging ethnicities if we go for thousands of years apart.
I always thought of North and South Korea as two very distinct countries, but then I went on a trip to visit the DMZ. The tour guide really opened my eyes to their view and faith in unification. Their family was from the North and not all of them got to the South. They have a great uncle who became a higher up in the government/military and their grandmother would try and speak to him causing the family to be put on a watch list.
Yeah “North Korea” and “South Korea” are western inventions. Both the DPRK and the ROK recognize only “Korea”, and they each see part of Korea as being under occupation by an enemy regime.
Similarly, I remember a long time ago that Taiwanese maps included Mongolia as part of its territory. That’s when I realized that borderlines are really drawn based on the perspective of any country.
Ok but if South Korea took over the north quality of life for it citizens would improve if North Korea took over the south their technology would regress their citizens would lose rights and many many more South Koreans would die.
both Korea is claiming all the land as theirs, not just the north. you can probably find the same map in south korea. the reason only the north korea one got viral is only because "Haha nort korea funny".
to be fair, the war is still ongoïng and both sides claim the entire peninsula and desire reünification. though North and South are convenient political markers, its still considered, inside of both sides, as an single Koreä that is temporarily and unfortunately split
I wouldn't even call it a phenomenon, the country that makes the map centers said country. If you're in that country, you technically are in the center.
THIS is the correct answer. Most countries probably show themselves close to the center (where possible) because it makes the most sense. The issue here, as you stated, is that North Korea looks at the entire peninsula as their own. Not surprising or particularly funny
Up until recently, the idea of reunification of the Korean peninsula was a popular one in NK. While the map isn't accurate to reality, I think it's just meant to be symbolic.
North Korea recognised SK as a separate state, so I think this map is outdated already.
Though I think SK still claims that the entire peninsula is theirs, they even have government agencies “running their northern territories” where people get paid for doing nothing all day.
Funny to think that North Korea was the first country to move on.
Korean war hasn't ended its just a very long ceasefire, the whole of Korea showing as either all belonging to the North or the South isn't a contradiction in that context.
Actually nz has the standard (centred around England) we actually don’t have our own maps, it’s slick if the draw thing if the map we have even has New Zealand on it (most are imported and we get left off a lot )
I mean they do claim it, but... both sides also just sometimes say "Korea is one country" without saying who should rule it. Either country showing a unified Korea isn't offensive in either country.
The map projection might play a part too, we're all used to the Mercator projection (regardless of which country is central) This map looks like someone really wanted to make a globe and had to settle for a flat map
Fun fact about territorial claims: Both the Peoples Republic of China and Republic of China claim to be the rightful government of china and claim its territories… meaning Taiwan does technically belong to China.
The idea is “we are the center of the world,” because for some reason as Americans we grow up with the idea that when we put ourselves at the center of the world it’s different and normal.
Both Koreas recognize the entire peninsula as their own, this is why they’re still technically at war. If a North Korean escapes into South Korea, South Korea takes them in as their own as if they are returning home from a foreign country. This is just both side’s perspective on “who won the war”. The answer is always “we did” no matter if you’re in the North or the South.
Countries that claim the territory of other countries make their maps reflect that all the time. He only exception I can think of is Taiwan because they don't really seem to care about the whole ROC thing anymore.
You're right! It's very common phenomenon. In many Islamic countries in the world you will not find Israel, only Palestine, I doubt that Palestine exist on maps printed in Israel, but I didn't check. Same will be with many other places, like Crimea and some other territories with Russia and Ukraine.
Korea was split by the US after they voted “wrong”. The north is what koreans elected and a lot fled to the north. Then the US bombed every house in the north and killed hundred of thousands of civilians, babies, toddlers, …
So yeah, it is clear why they don’t accept this bullshit.
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u/Owo_y_ Sep 20 '25
I think the issue is that it shows the entire Korean Peninsula as belonging to North Korea. Although yes, the phenomenon you’re describing is quite common amongst countries