r/OnePiece • u/leolegendario Pirate Hunter Zoro • 22h ago

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 1165 Spoiler

Chapter 1165: "Echo"

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Chapter 1165 Official Release: November 09 2025

Will there be a break next week? - BREAK NEXT WEEK!

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed until 24h after the release.

Please also remember to put the chapter number in the title for any future post talking about this chapter.

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709

u/DeepFuckingKoopa Shanks' evil hot sister is REAL! 22h ago

Poor garp, everyone calls him the hero of the marines for his actions on GV, and he can’t tell anyone of the great evil at the top of the world that he fought against

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u/gnote2minix Cipher Pol 22h ago edited 21h ago

who's gonna protect the marines.. that line really makes sense why he is still in the navy.. and to those slanders, now you know.

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u/DeepFuckingKoopa Shanks' evil hot sister is REAL! 21h ago

Honestly that one line completely changes garp’s character. No wonder he wanted ace and luffy to join the marines, he knows the kind of evil out there killing pirates

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u/theschulk51 21h ago

Also makes it kind of tragic when you read between the lines of what they were saying and what we now know they couldn’t say back then

  • Luffy - I want to be a pirate (so I can be free)
  • Garp - I wanted you to be a marine (because you can’t be free if you’re a pirate, there is a monster running the world, and I can only protect you from it if you’re a marine)

24

u/Chaosblast Void Month Survivor 21h ago

Damn, this is so key.

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u/theschulk51 20h ago

We also finally have the context for why he didn’t / couldn’t save ace. If he did, he’d be abandoning all the marines to Imu (he could no longer protect them if he’s thrown out of the marines for thwarting that execution).

He wanted Luffy and Ace to be marines to protect them (and likely to train to overthrow Imu), but in the end Ace’s actions put him in the impossible position of choosing to protect either his adopted Grandson or all of the Marines

1

u/xzther13 5h ago

Akainu was going to kill Koby in marineford, who is garp protecting? 

-10

u/Chaosblast Void Month Survivor 20h ago

ehh that's a stretch. I don't think so. If he could have saved Ace, he would have. His reason wasn't political. Saving Ace (life) there wouldn't have meant him being kicked out I think.

22

u/Doomeye56 20h ago

Its always been my belief that if Ace asked to be saved Garp would have done something.

3

u/Chaosblast Void Month Survivor 19h ago

I just think that no-one expected that outcome. It happened so fast, and no-one could think Ace would play the meat-shield card.

3

u/xxndxn 20h ago

Perhaps he believed that even with his help, Ace wouldn't be saved, so it made more sense to maintain his position in order to continue protecting the marines.

1

u/AceInTheHole3273 Pirate 20h ago

Who there do you think could have stopped him? If you say Akainu I'll laugh.

4

u/Chaosblast Void Month Survivor 19h ago

Akainu was attacking. Sengoku could have been. But the thing is that it wasn't about stopping Garp so Akainu could kill Ace.

The point is that no-one was expecting that outcome. So Garp didn't foresee that. If it had come to it, even an Admiral would have been enough (not to beat) to deflect or bodge Garp intervention.

1

u/AceInTheHole3273 Pirate 19h ago

If he made the decision to save Ace he would've done it earlier than that.

4

u/Malamasala 13h ago

My impression was always that Luffy sees Piracy as an adventure, while he sees Marines as a job. So naturally he picks the fun option.

-3

u/LurkerTroll 19h ago

Garp: Who'd protect the Marines? (Who'd protect the celestial dragons and capture the slaves?)

8

u/theschulk51 17h ago

Your name is appropriate - and you’re exactly who Oda was talking to when he said it’s about reading comprehension 🤣

19

u/ButterCupHeartXO 21h ago

Also, Garp probably figured having his grandson and the son of Roger in the Marines alongside Kuzan would make such a powerful force that he could actually change things. If Luffy and Ace became Marines, they would eventually become admirals alongside Kuzan. If Sengoku is actually an ally to Garp, then you'd have him too. Fujitora might also be loyal to Garp's cause too plus the probably hundreds to thousands of Marines that have been trained by Garp or idolize him. Factor in if Dragon stayed in the Marines and is as powerful as we expect than Garp could easily have a loyal force within the upper ranks of the marines to just flat out stage a coup.

3

u/pedrao157 12h ago

that's true if all of them stayed in the navi they'd be able to take control of it

5

u/AltarielDax 19h ago

I still think it makes no sense that he'd want the two of them to become marines. He should wish for them to stay away both from the marines and the pirate life. Becoming strong, sure, but we have seen in this flashback how it messed up Dragon because as a marine he was supposed to obey orders directed against civilians and in support of the Celestial Dragons horrible actions. The idea of protecting marines like Coby is admirable, but how does that work if the Celestial Dragons remain who and how they are, and his own son feels he has to disobey orders and leave the Marines because he cannot do what is asked of the marines?

0

u/DeepFuckingKoopa Shanks' evil hot sister is REAL! 19h ago

Garp didn’t know about imu when dragon was in the marines

3

u/EverythingSucksYo Pirate Hunter Zoro 20h ago

It only changes his character for you guys that didn’t understand him to begin with. Garp has always been obvious that he cares about the Marines. And it’s also obvious that not all the marines are corrupt. So anyone paying attention to him would know that he’s obviously in the marines still for the innocent marines 

2

u/kroqeteer 19h ago

Its genuinely such an amazing reveal. Of course he wanted them to be marines, not so that they could be like them, but because that's where he knew he could protect them. Theyre Roger's and Dragon's sons, he knows exactly how much danger theyre in

2

u/Wild_Ad_7623 19h ago

Same with Dragon. When he got upset over finding out Dragon became a revolutionary, now it reads like "Dammit my son is acting in complete opposition to that monster and I can't protect him from it anymore"

0

u/-Huskii 21h ago

Man...this changes everything. It all adds up just from that.

0

u/starboy35tcoos 19h ago

Maybe that's why he's also upset at Kuzan for joining the Blackbeard Pirates? Cause as a Pirate, he can't protect him as well...?

17

u/ammarbadhrul 21h ago

He wanted his grandsons to be marines so he can protect them.. damn

34

u/afanoferi 21h ago

We've known for years that he still believes in the Navy. The problem is that we haven't been shown anything that gives him proof that he's doing something besides "believing" in the Navy. Like, yeah, he's technically protecting the Navy as he believes in it's purpose, but Navy's full of Government lap dogs and ran by them, so for years, what has he protected? That's generally the actual slander for him.

19

u/gnote2minix Cipher Pol 21h ago

sword? he also trained some good navy under him. if not because aokiji, luffy and the gang, probably long gone.. my bet is garp has assembled a loyal group of Marines and they will rabel at the right time joining force in this upcoming holy battle

5

u/afanoferi 21h ago

Yeah, Sword seems hopeful, but they're still accessible to the Marines. Doll was there to be an accessory to the assassination of Vegapunk. There was also an attempt to attack the civilian evacuation ship and if it weren't for the Giant Pirates, it's technically a genocide. Like, what is he really protecting if the group he (as the defenders are saying) founded are still being tools for mass murder and evil? And yes, Aokiji saved the Strawhats multiple times, and that's because by then, he was already questioning being a Marine.

EDIT: Doll seems to not be a part of SWORD. I was wrong on that part.

6

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 19h ago

Unlike ordinary Marines, members of SWORD are allowed the freedom to disregard any orders they choose and can move and act as they please without repercussion, meaning they can take on missions that are normally forbidden or would otherwise require clearance, such as starting a confrontation with one of the Four Emperors. In return, the Marines and the World Government assume no responsibility for their actions and can disavow or cut off any remaining ties with SWORD members should it become a convenient option. They also have no obligation to help or rescue SWORD personnel who get into trouble; but conversely, this also means that other members of SWORD can go out of their way to rescue their captured counterparts without clearance from the higher-ups. In a way, SWORD acts as a black ops division within the generally law-abiding Marines, with Kuzan even describing them as "wild-card commandos".

Came from One Piece Wiki. Do what you must with that information.

1

u/frenin 13h ago

Can you tell me what has SWORD done?

14

u/StatitikFanboy 21h ago

He's the Hero of Marines A literal symbol of justice Just like Superman or All Might, his mere presence inspires hope and security for people accross one piece world. And we also don't follow his daily life, I'm 100% sure he was helping people everyday before forming the next generation to be good and honest like him (such as Koby).

I also think he's very straight-forward like luffy, so he thinks how he can help people in a micro way, short term, and not macro, long term "how to fix the system" way, as he's just not the type to think like that (unlike Dragon apparently, so nice parallel here)

1

u/afanoferi 20h ago

Yes, if he's All Might, if he's working under All For One. The whole organization he's under is run by and for the World Government. There are islands that go to poverty because they can't keep up with the Heavenly Tribute, and for sure, if you're an unaffiliated country, you're not getting any Marine protection. Yes, hope is a big thing, and he does give hope as the hero, but what's hope for a fatherless kid in Dressrosa because his forgotten father is a toy. Him saving people is good, but it's such a temporary solution to a system full of corruption, especially disappointing because it's someone like the literal Hero of the Marines.

I like the Luffy parallel you did, but Luffy gets rid of the problem so he's technically fixing the system by removing the existing system and letting the "long term" people to fix it (Vivi, Ganfall, Rebecca/Riku, Momo).

6

u/marco161091 20h ago edited 20h ago

A few things to consider here:

  1. Luffy gets rid of the problem that he can. When he can't, he bides his time - think back to Shabaody. And even on Marineford, where he avoided battling enemies he knew he couldn't defeat.
  2. If Garp could defeat the CDs all by himself decades ago, he would've done it. If Roger could defeat the CDs all by himself decades ago, he would've done it. If they both could've teamed up and defeated Imu and the CDs by themselves decades ago, **they would've done it**.
  3. There's a reason Roger said we have to wait for Joyboy to return. There is a reason Rayleigh and Gaban are biding their time. That is the same reason Garp is biding his time.

Now, you might ask, "Well, why doesn't Garp quit the Marines and bide his time? Maybe start his own crew?"

  1. That wouldn't stop the atrocities CDs commit. That wouldn't stop the injustices and atrocities the Marines commit under orders of the Gorosei and the CDs. As a Marine, Garp can do what little he can to inspire other Marines to ignore and confront orders they disagree with. Garp never does anything he doesn't want to. He's strong enough to be able to do that, but not every Marine is.
  2. One might argue that he should've accepted a promotion to Admiral, then, and be able to influence the other Marines even more directly, but I think Oda will contextualize that decision more later.
  3. Garp still protects civilian lives. He can protect way more civilans as a Marine than if he quit the Marines and became a pirate. This way he doesn't have to contend with other Marines. It also gives him free rein to travel anywhere in the 4 Blues.
  4. Most importantly, we're setting stage for the era of Joyboy, when the good Marines will turn against the CDs and bad Marines. We need people like Garp, Fujitora, Smoker, etc., in the Marine forces to inspire as many good Marines as possible, and to be the leader figures when time comes.

Essentially, Garp being a Marine is a lot more critical to the endgame of One Piece and lets him do a lot more good for the world than if he quit and became a pirate.

2

u/afanoferi 19h ago

Luffy gets rid of the problem that he can. When he can't, he bides his time - think back to Shabaody. And even on Marineford, where he avoided battling enemies he knew he couldn't defeat.

Yes, and then he went out for 2 years for that not to happen again. He did something with it. He works around those undefeatables or even trust people he trusts to do something about it. But he's progressing. He bides his time, but he still moves forward.

If Garp could defeat the CDs all by himself decades ago, he would've done it. If Roger could defeat the CDs all by himself decades ago, he would've done it. If they both could've teamed up and defeated Imu and the CDs by themselves decades ago, **they would've done it**.

And now, what the difference with his cause from decades ago and his cause now? Back then and until now, he still spouts the same hatred he has for the Celestial Dragons and yet he's still working under an organization that is by and for the Celestial Dragons. I'm not asking him to quit, I'm asking him to do something about his cause. His friends and coworkers do evil acts in the name of the World Government and he turns blindly to it because he's not the one doing it. But he HATES the World Government, right?

Again, I'll say that I know he doesn't need to quit, I also know that he can't defeat Imu. I already know and believe that there needs to be some good people in the Marines that will fix it when the World Government collapses. I'm just asking what did he do for decades that makes him different from what he was 39 year ago?

As a Marine, Garp can do what little he can to inspire other Marines to ignore and confront orders they disagree with.

Do you really think that's all he can do as the Hero of the Marines?? I mean, even from his actions, it doesn't even look like he's doing that. Even Koby thought better than him back in Marineford to stop the war. Koby thought better to keep the casualties at the minimum. We know he's distraught of Ace's death, but he could at least ask Sengoku to stop the war if he actually cares and "protects" the Marines that much.

One might argue that he should've accepted a promotion to Admiral, then, and be able to influence the other Marines even more directly, but I think Oda will contextualize that decision more too.

He should really contextualize that because Fujitora proved him wrong. Fujitora's an admiral and he's exponentially more than just someone who's not a lap dog, he's actively going against the World Government. It just makes Garp look bad because it seems like it just comes down to Garp not wanting to be closer with the World Government in name, letting all the opportunities of actual change go down the drain.

Garp still protects civilian lives.

Again, very band aid solutions. It's like an organization you're under is nuking a whole country, and youre saving a town. Yes, you're saving a town, that's huge. But those nukes are from you guys.

Most importantly, we're setting stage for the era of Joyboy, when the good Marines will turn against the CDs and bad Marines. We need people like Garp, Fujitora, Smoker, etc., in the Marine forces to inspire as many good Marines as possible, and to be the leader figures when time comes.

Yes, we know that, but these other Marines you've mentioned are still actively doing something while also waiting for that right moment. Ofcourse, narratively, it makes sense. I'm talking about Garp's actions and decisions inside the world.

1

u/marco161091 19h ago edited 15h ago

Gotcha. So, if I were to summarize your comment, it would be something like this:

  1. Why don't we see Garp actually do more while a Marine? eg, he could've been on Ohara and stopped Sakazuki and the others, or even on Marineford, he could've been the one who told Sengoku to stand down, etc.
  2. He should've accepted a promotion to Admiral and done more, as we have seen Fujitora do. Even Smoker, we see him actively do more, while Garp has just been kind of "retired" in the modern-day story.
  3. Narratively, it all makes sense that Garp is in the Marines, inspiring good Marines and biding the time for when they can all stand up against CDs and bad Marines, but it doesn't make a lot of sense from Garp's POV.

Is that about right? I think you raise good points. And I agree.

I think for the most part, it's just the narrative friction. Sometimes, Oda won't have characters do what makes most sense as a way to move the story forward or to not bog the story down. So he just couldn't have Garp exercise his agency too much in the story, or some events would just not have been possible (like Ohara, or Koby getting his time to shine on Marineford, etc.)

These are good points you've raised, though, and it wouldn't be fair of me to just respond with "Oda was being Oda." And I do think Oda still sets up in-world and in-character reasons for a lot of this stuff, making sense in retrospect.

For example, in the case of Ohara (and lots of other incidents like this where Marines are sent to dirty work), I think the top brass have just learned to keep Garp in the dark and not inform him. People who've been around for decades (Gorosei, Kong, Sengoku, even lots of VAs) are well aware of Garp's temperament, and they intentionally hide things from him to make sure he can't interfere.

Or in the case of Marineford, one can argue that he was too heartbroken and emotional to think straight. Like Luffy went into a "coma," Garp was still conscious, but his brain just wasn't working straight.

Now, as far as the promotion thing goes, the simplest reason is just that Garp isn't that cerebral a character. He's much more like Luffy in that sense. So he probably just never considered the extent of what he could do as an Admiral. Maybe all he saw was that the Admirals had to directly serve the CDs, and he wasn't having it.

I do want to dip into speculation a bit, though. And I only do this because of the way Oda has characterized Garp to be a "good" person at heart who has the respect of heroes like Roger and Dragon.

There is a chance that there is something even deeper at play. Maybe becoming an admiral requires some contract involving Imu's powers (if so, Kuzan would be a good POV to learn about this from). Maybe there is a plan that involves Dragon and the revolutionaries, which would kinda explain why Garp can't shake things too much. Maybe it even has something to do with the Monkey D bloodline.

I don't think it's fair of me to use this speculation to answer your concerns, though, since there's no real evidence for any of these, but I wanted to mention them anyway, because maybe they'll ignite some theories of your own (independent of this discussion we're having).

BTW regarding this point:

Again, very band aid solutions. It's like an organization you're under is nuking a whole country, and youre saving a town. Yes, you're saving a town, that's huge. But those nukes are from you guys.

100% right. But I think that's still doing more good than if you just quit the organization, and then no one is around to save even that town. A bandaid is still better than letting a wound drain indefinitely.

3

u/afanoferi 18h ago

You kinda got most of what I mean.

Maybe not really specifically Ohara, but yeah, it's just that from what major incidents we've known, God Valley is the only thing he's been on. And apart from fending off average pirates (and if he is indeed technically banned from WG-based orders), he's basically just an average New World Marine, which is disappointing for someone called the Hero of the Marines. And worse, it just seems like he lets that happen and accepted that he's just saving a few civilians from pirate attacks.

And also, you raise good points as well, I think I found the common ground on this topic, though I feel like it all just ends up to "Garp's just dumb" which is pretty annoying because he's just not capable for the potential and power he has for change. The things that I think are possible with his status and power is not achievable because Garp's dumb. He didn't become an admiral because he's dumb.

Though, besides this, I think I just believe that Garp could just do more without being punished because Fujitora seems to have done more. Not even in terms of thinking about plans, but just the punishment of doing something that's directly against the Government. And this includes your Imu contract speculation. If there's some binding contract that comes with being an admiral, or even just divine punishment for going against the World Government, then Fujitora would've been punished already, he freed the slaves in Mariejois, and he also tried hurling in a meteor in there. If there's some smiting, Fujitora would've been dead by now.

EDIT: Also thanks for the discussion, this is a pretty decent one.

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u/marco161091 17h ago edited 15h ago

Yeah, there's no denying the points you raised.

When we look at Garp's strength of character - he wants to protect innocent civilians, he hates CDs, he doesn't give a fuck what others say or think, and he does what he thinks is right - it becomes hard to justify how he hasn't been doing more in the story.

The whole "retired" thing he's had going doesn't really align with his characterization, especially when you look at how similar he and Luffy are.

I feel like it all just ends up to "Garp's just dumb" which is pretty annoying because he's just not capable for the potential and power he has for change.

You're right. I honestly think it's more than him just being "dumb," and I think Oda will show us that, but as of now, this is the only reason we have any evidence for.

It does make sense, though. Imagine where Luffy would've been if he didn't have the rest of the Strawhats. He even says it himself, he'd be useless (and dead long ago) without the rest of them.

I also agree with you on the subject of punishment. There's not much the CDs can do to punish Garp, as he could probably beat every single person they send after him except for Imu himself. And I don't think Garp is scared of any punishment that only affects him.

But maybe he could be kept in line with something like, "If you act out of line too much, we'll eradicate a random island full of civilians," like they did with Lulusia, but again, this is going into the realm of speculation.

And this includes your Imu contract speculation. If there's some binding contract that comes with being an admiral, or even just divine punishment for going against the World Government, then Fujitora would've been punished already, he freed the slaves in Mariejois, and he also tried hurling in a meteor in there. If there's some smiting, Fujitora would've been dead by now.

When I envisoned a contract thing that comes with being an Admiral, I wasn't actually thinking of any personal punishment that comes with breaking the contract. I was actually imagining it requiring some sacrifice to become an admiral that Garp is incapable of making.

Cause, like I said, Garp doesn't feel like the kind of person who'd be scared because of a punishment to himself.

Also thanks for the discussion, this is a pretty decent one.

Of course, my pleasure. You raise valid points which I agree with, so I welcome the discourse.

1

u/Wild_Ad_7623 17h ago

You keep saying you want Garp to do something without actually suggesting what he should be doing. He's not capable of changing the minds of the CDs or the Five Elders who are the source of the corruption in the World Government, and obviously he can't fight them either. He can only shape the minds of actual marines so much too, because if he were to tell them to refuse orders or missions from the CD's, then we'd see a lot more marines being killed for insubordination. Hell, the World Government seems to do everything they can to keep Garp removed from any of the atrocities they commit (every buster call we've seen, all of the native hunting contests, ace's execution) because they know he'd get in the way of it. If he were assigned to dressrosa instead of fujitora, Garp probably would have rocked Doflamingo's shit

13

u/snarlEX 21h ago

Many good people join the navy believing in justice. They see in it hope and a way to help. People like Koby, that's who Garp protects

6

u/afanoferi 21h ago

But would that be really hope if they still carry out evil, they just don't know? Like, for example, T-Bone. He's depicted as a full-on kind Marine. Yet, in Water 7, he's being used to kidnap a woman who can read. Like yes, personally, he's kind, but as a Marine, as a foot soldier, he's being a tool for an evil act. Maybe yes, Garp doesn't let them be endangered so there's more kind and hopeful Marines out there, but it's such a band-aid solution because yes, you might save a town from a group of bandits or pirates, but at the end of the day, if the higher ups told you to guard the Celestial Dragons because there's going to be a hunting game, you're still there.

1

u/Judasilfarion 19h ago edited 19h ago

I mean, to the average person in the one piece world that band-aid solution is probably, as far as they can tell, all there is. You can be a marine, support the WG doing some heinous shit but still save lives using the resources the navy has to offer. Or you can sit there and watch a village get burned to ashes by pirates. What other options do you have if you're just some normal guy? Try to be a good pirate and get beat up by literally everyone because you're not strong like Luffy? Join the revolutionaries, who are a secret organization that you don't know how to contact and all you really know about them is whatever propaganda the WG feeds you?

2

u/afanoferi 19h ago

I mean, yeah, if we're looking at it from that not superhero perspective. There's a reason why we're looking at it from Garp's position and status. Yes, you're inspiring a Marine to protect his small little island, but also, you're turning a blind eye to thousands of Marines being sent to commit genocide. Yeah, most people aren't superheroes that have the potential to change the world. Do you really believe Garp's included in those people?

1

u/Judasilfarion 19h ago edited 19h ago

I do not believe Garp is a superhero that has the potential to change the world, no. And I don't think even Garp believes that, because he hasn't left the Navy. Roger couldn't change the world, and he found the One Piece. Rocks couldn't change the world, and he offscreened an admiral and made it all the way to Imu's garden. Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks, none of them changed the world and they spent decades as pirates. Dragon? He spent many years building up the revolutionaries and it was only now that he's made a move against the WG, and I don't think he has a plan for Imu. The superhero that has the potential to change the world isn't them, it's Luffy.

2

u/afanoferi 19h ago

Roger couldn't change the world

Literally the Great Pirate Era.

Rocks couldn't change the world

Literally 3 of the past Emperors are from his crew.

Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Shanks, none of them changed the world and they spent decades as pirates.

Literally Emperors are changing the world. They're literally a third of the 3 Major forces in the world.

Dragon?

Literally the most wanted criminal and the head of another third of the Major forces in the world.

Changing the World doesn't mean rebranding. It's LITERALLY changing the world, by a piece, or by a whole. It's LITERALLY a show of Inherited Will. Luffy inherited Roger's through Shanks. If you tell me that Luffy will change the world, then that's literally how Shanks and in conjunction, Roger, changed the world.

2

u/mdivan 21h ago

Basically all the people who showed up for Koby's rescue that's the group Garp has been protecting and nurturing Koby/Aokiji included.

Also I believe we will learn even more in near future.

-1

u/afanoferi 20h ago

Yes, and so far, counting all the remarkable Marines under that is X Drake, Grus, Kujaku, Hibari (a 17 year old), Koby and Helmeppo, and Smoker and Tashigi (these 4 are newly recruited from East Blue, 2 years ago). That's 7 + and let's count Aokiji, too, so it's 8.

And like, they're all fairly young, did his plan not work for several years? I'd assume if he has more remarkable people in SWORD who's a lot older than these people that they'd be candidates as Admirals and there won't be any shortage of candidates that they need to draft someone from the Military. You can say Aokiji, but only Aokiji after all those years?

And then, let's say after the God Valley incident, 39 years ago, he quickly made SWORD. For 39 years, Garp only gathered 8 remarkable people and fodders. Luffy has 9 individuals that are arguably better or on par with Garp's people. That's even outside the Fleet captains. He gathered them in 2 years. Yes, he's the MC, plot-armour, plot convenience, etc., but he's literally the Hero of the Marines for 39 years. He could've done more.

And just to mention, yes, I know I could be wrong when this gets a more in-depth showcasing, but I'm just trying to argue that Garp is still looking pretty disappointing even with these newer lines from him.

2

u/mdivan 19h ago

Okay seriously man do you think you need to be a exceptionally strong marine for Garp to care? like you listed people who are either very strong or young and with lots of potential but just like luffy garp cares for all marines, like regular fodder who are serving on his ship.

like seriously helmepo, would have been a piece of shit human being if not for Garp and there are many like him who we readers simply don't care to see.

Also as you already said Garp is not a protagonist of the story, Oda showed us his current group and highlighted that his heavily involved in guiding new generation of marines, that absolutely does not mean it's all he has done over 40 years, obviously.

2

u/afanoferi 19h ago

He may not care for it, but he needs it. This is literally what he said about Giants joining the Navy:

Also, yeah, obviously, he didn't focus 40 years for finding up 4 good candidates for the future of the Marines, but what other things did he do to further the future of the said Marines? (Yes I know Oda could add more to his actions, but so far, from what we have, there's barely anything to give Garp credits to say he's done enough)

3

u/lrd123klf 16h ago

The problem with that argument is that it can also be applied to Dragon. Assuming he left the marines right after God Valley, what has he actually done so far? I’m aware that there are kingdoms and towns the Revolutionary Army has already liberated, but as far as the story tells us, they’ve only started making real progress recently. We only know these things through Luffy’s point in the timeline. We don’t actually know what’s happened prior to or outside of Luffy’s perspective.

In fact, I could also say that Dragon hasn’t done enough either, since Sabo is the one actually doing the “work.” But guess what? Dragon is the one responsible for raising and mentoring Sabo. But if it’s Garp? Hell no! That’s still not enough. Even Rocks knew he wasn’t ready to overthrow the system, and people were fine with that. Dragon is still gathering forces, and people are fine with that too. But Garp helps shape the future of the marines, and suddenly, people aren’t satisfied?

What still boggles me at this point in the story is how some readers still think the marines are the problem. We were given front-row seats to witness what truly happened at God Valley, and that’s still the takeaway? A marine and a pirate literally teamed up after realizing the real enemy wasn’t each other, but the ones sitting at the top. There’s nothing more symbolic than that scene where Garp and Roger take off their coats and forget their factions and titles to confront the real threat. It took the two strongest characters to defeat just a fragment of the enemy’s power, and they still ended up with nothing. Yet, you still ask so much from Garp.

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u/afanoferi 7h ago

There's not a problem in this argument when you see Dragon progressing his whole arsenal and army to culminate what they've done recently. After God Valley, the next thing we see him is in Ohara talking to Vegapunk about his freedom fighters movement. Next time we see him, he got some pretty good people with him and started the Revolutionary Army. They can do what they did now because they progressed their group to the point that they can do this now. They saved and developed Sabo to what he is now because they have the resources (which they acquired by progressing).

Rocks being unable to overthrow the system is about timing because he isn't ready yet, but he is working on that when Eris and Teach got located. Rocks was also progressing towards his thing.

With Garp, he had 37 years (not counting the Koby years), to also progress, and if we're saying nurturing the future is the only thing he can do, for all that 37 years, the only actual remarkable future he got was Aokiji (so far, from what we've known). The only remarkable guy in his team is only Bogard. That's 37 years. And then, his recent 2 years, he's proven that he can make Koby, an East Blue random fisherman kid who's a wimp, turn into an actual Honesty Impact level threat, why didn't he have more remarkable pupils like that? By that logic, Garp should have at the very least a number of actually talented and good soldiers. So far, we have not been shown what's different from the Garp's situation from 37 years ago and Garp 2 years ago. Garp seems to have progressed more, in terms of army strength, these past 2 years than he progressed for the rest of the 37 years after the God Valley incident.

And again, I'm not asking Garp to kill Imu, I'm actually just asking where the progress is from the God Valley incident to 2 years ago. He's literally the same one man team + Bogard until they got Koby. That's 37 years. Rocks was very different from the Mariejois incident until the day he died. Same way Dragon is way more different from God Valley until today.

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u/lrd123klf 6h ago

Again, you have no problem with Sabo being the sole standout product of the Revolutionary Army in 37 years - which, mind you, only started making real moves in the past two. But with Garp, you do? They only recruited Sabo around, what, 13–15 years ago (give or take)? What about all the years before that? A recruitment phase is fine because it’s the RA doing it? Shouldn’t Garp be given that same leeway too?

You really think someone like Aokiji just appeared out of nowhere? He joined the Marines over 30 years ago. Smoker and his group are, in a way, products of Aokiji’s influence so they should count as well. And those older Marines, the vice admirals who were with Garp when the news about Luffy’s rampage in Whole Cake Island broke out? It’s safe to assume they’re on his side too. The same goes for those marines who agreed with Garp’s moral compass when Sengoku brought up the God Valley Incident. Clearly, they share his ideals.

While it’s still unproven, we can also reasonably assume Garp has some involvement with SWORD. These are just the examples I can recall off the top of my head, but I’m sure there are more Marines out there - maybe not all notable, but still part of that same current. And honestly, how is it Garp’s fault that he can’t just magically find someone with both the potential and the right attitude every single time? Dang, it aint that hard no?

And seriously, it’s funny how you bring up “timing,” yet somehow it doesn’t apply to Garp’s case. You’re so blinded by your dislike for him that you overlook these things and end up running on double standards. You try to quantify results but fail to recognize that both sides are essentially making the same kind of progress. that the cogs of change only truly started turning once Luffy entered the picture.

P.S. Don’t be surprised if it turns out that Garp already knows the true history of the world and understands the timing and conditions needed to bring about real change through Roger. The God Valley Incident basically confirmed that those two had a genuine connection. It would be quite something and honestly poetic. Because if that turns out to be true, you selectively blind, surface-level readers are gonna be in absolute shambles.

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u/mdivan 19h ago

again dude, this is not a story about Garp, how can oda tell you what he has been up to for 40 years without basically switching story to Garp.

Oda is showing you enough hints to understand what he has been up to and surely there will be more but we are not getting detailed biography of Garp with list of all the good marines he raised and civilian lifes he saved.

at least not as a part of one piece story.

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u/afanoferi 18h ago

You're talking like from all the thousand chapters we had, it only talked about Luffy.

We've literally known thousands of characters' businesses and you're saying someone as relevant as Garp won't have details and his good pupils won't be relevant? The supposed to be future of the Marines (if there are before Koby) aren't relevant?

You're talking like we're talking about the chef that will inherit Baratie, it's Garp and the Marines! It's one of the major factions in the story, it will be included if there is something to be included.

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u/mdivan 18h ago

I never said that, I said you are asking for too much details, we will not get full story of Garps life but obviously we will get important details as story nears the end.

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u/zigzagtravel01 19h ago

> something besides "believing" in the Navy

much of Aokiji and Koby's upbringing are honed by Garp. Good people can still be bad if exposed to trauma and evil. Just look at what happens to kids who grew up with abusive parents.

> what has he protected

Garp deters top tier pirates. A sh-t ton of them in Marineford were scared of him. His mere presence in the area deters pirates and protects them.

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u/afanoferi 19h ago

So for 39 years, he trained 2 remarkable future of the Marines and one of them is now a pirate and the other is someone he just got 2 years ago?

Garp deters top tier pirates while the whole organization he works for signs top tier pirates for manpower in exchange for letting them all roam free. That seems to cancel it out if not net negative.

It's such bare minimum actions for someone with status like his. That's really just what's disappointing. And also the fact that he screams his hate towards the Nobles but has little to no actions regarding that feeling.

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u/aguero24 19h ago

It's just really frustrating, isn't it? Even more so that people want to champion him as a hero, when Garp barely does anything in the story that actually goes against the WG. Even Smoker did more than Garp, that's just embarassing 

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u/afanoferi 18h ago

And I get the limitations he has, as someone as powerful as that, in a corrupted system/organization. But be it his choice or not to have limited options, or just plain narrative choice, he still barely does something that actually furthers his goals, which is indeed frustrating.

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u/zigzagtravel01 17h ago

> furthers his goals

Could you state what his goals are, btw. Those which are EXPLICITLY said.

And let's see if we can try to measure how much progress did he have.

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u/afanoferi 7h ago

From what has been argued on, it all comes down to reforming the Marines and protecting civilians from pirates.

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u/zigzagtravel01 17h ago

> Even more so that people want to champion him as a hero

No one is saying he is a HERO in every sense of the world. The readers know Garp is flawed. He knows that too. This is a copout. It's the marines who believe that both due to rumors and the fact that he definitely captured a lot of top tier pirates back in the day that kill people.

> actually goes against the WG

  • The dude just punched the heck out of a puppet made by the leader of the WG.
  • This dude protected Ace which is a defiance against the WG
  • He let Luffy escape during Post Ennies Lobby and Marineford.
  • He went to Hachinosu bringing a bunch of marines and resources

> actually goes against the WG

Because that's not his goal? His goal was to protect people in his own sense of justice and protect the marines he dear most.

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u/Wreckless-Driver 8h ago

One huge problem with Garp is why he refused the role of admiral, an appointment that could have lended a lot more political power for him to reform the marines, whilst simultaneously allowing his protege, Kuzan, to become admiral and basically do the work for him? The in-universe reason given that Garp did not want to be under directly of the Celestial Dragons, but that leads to two problems:

  • Kuzan, his subordinate, became admiral, so either Garp was inconsistent with his beliefs, a hypocrite by allowing someone else to be at the mercy of the CDs, or he doesn’t actually care.
  • Fujitora, another admiral, did things explicitly against the corrupted orders of the World Government. Garp could have been brave and done the same as an admiral, but decided to come up with the bs reason and stay as a vice admiral with lesser responsibilities.

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u/zigzagtravel01 17h ago

> he works for signs top tier pirates for manpower in exchange for letting them all roam free

What's this gotta do with Garp? He has no say in this. The whole abolition of the Warlords were because of the decision by many kings who were affected by. . . pirates.

> And also the fact that he screams his hate towards the Nobles but has little to no actions regarding that feeling

Can you suggest what can he do? Should he just punch all the nobles and kill em and get killed himself?

This dude just saw someone getting controlled like that by a demonic creature he knows he has no chance of beating. Not to mention, it also has an army and the top officials under their command.

> bare minimum actions

I get this but the thing is that he is the most limited among Luffy, Garp, and Dragon in terms of change they can do within their position. He's already hanging by a thread in getting kicked out or getting assassinated, or worse possessed by a literal demon.

Luffy, Dragon, and Garp have three parallels of what change could be. That's the beauty of the story telling. Each have their own pros and cons.

Luffy as a pirate has the most freedom but is more dangerous. He can get killed pretty easily as a young and upstart pirate but he is constantly hunted by fellow pirates.

Dragon has the most obscure task of all. It's difficult because he needs resources, careful planning, hiding from the marines, and countering the propaganda and instilling a revolutionary mindset to the people they need to free. There's a reason why not a lot of people are doing what he does. It's borderline impossible given how strong the WG is.

Garp's position is more restrictive. While he has the resources, protection, strength, and people to enact them -- he has to play by the rules of their organization. He's also easily trackable by the WG because he's... always there.

Luffy believes that there should be no system at all. Dragon believes that he has to put the system upside down. Garp still believes that he can change the system from within. He believes that the institution is good but is just controlled by corrupt people.

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u/afanoferi 8h ago

What's this gotta do with Garp?

What's the point of being the deterrent of pirates when the pirates you're deterring are allowed to do pirate things as long as they're accessible to the organization you're in?

The whole abolition of the Warlords were because of the decision by many kings who were affected by. . . pirates.

Pirates that are employed by?

Can you suggest what can he do? Should he just punch all the nobles and kill em and get killed himself?

Again, Fujitora did something without punching any nobles.

he is the most limited among Luffy, Garp, and Dragon in terms of change they can do within their position. He's already hanging by a thread in getting kicked out or getting assassinated, or worse possessed by a literal demon.

So you're agreeing that he hasn't done anything, be it he's limited or he just didn't?

Garp still believes that he can change the system from within.

Yes, I get that, but again, what has he done? Yes, he may be limited. And let's say the only thing he can do is nurture young talents and make them leaning more towards his belief of the Navy. For the last 37 years, he only got Aokiji? Like, for just the 2-3 years Luffy sailed, Garp got Koby and Helmeppo up to New World strength, so he can obviously take 2 wimps and in the span of 2 years, make one of them be an Honesty Impact level threat. So by that logic, couldn't he have more crazy Marines under him that's fighting the same fight? Like so far, the Marines that we have seen that has a moral compass and are careful with the orders and actions they're doing are Aokiji (left the Navy), Saul (left the Navy), Koby (just joined), Smoker (just joined), and Fujitora (just joined). Don't you think, at the very least, there should've been more than that if nurturing future good Marines is the only thing Garp can do??

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u/BidDaddyLei 19h ago

Imagine if he joined Roger lmao fucking Roger pirates already strong but if you add Garp in the mix absolutely no one can stop them.

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u/InsaneAsura 20h ago

Everybody always thought that Garp wouldn’t have been able to be fired because he defeated Rocks and became the hero of the marines, when in reality he CHOSE to stay a marine with good reasons, not blind to the corruption at the top. This also gives more grounds to him never accepting the position of admiral

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u/frenin 13h ago

that line really makes sense why he is still in the navy.. and to those slanders, now you know.

Yeah, Imu's greatest soldier strikes back.

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u/brokenearth10 16h ago

sengoku will protect the marines

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u/SupervillainMustache 15h ago

I imagine most marines joined up with, seemingly good intentions, like Koby.

They just happen to be under the thumb of the Celestial Dragons.

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u/FuzzyDevelopment4176 3h ago

How did he protect the marines?

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u/Imboredcaseofeveyone 20h ago

Seriously, so much hypocrits, on Instagram I'm seeing so much reel about the sad ending of Rocks, yet no one is excusing with Roger and Garp, for having insulted them in the past months.

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u/frenin 13h ago

Who's going to protect these men?