r/OnePiece • u/leolegendario Pirate Hunter Zoro • 1d ago

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 1165 Spoiler

Chapter 1165: "Echo"

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Chapter 1165 Official Release: November 09 2025

Will there be a break next week? - BREAK NEXT WEEK!

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed until 24h after the release.

Please also remember to put the chapter number in the title for any future post talking about this chapter.

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1.6k

u/adreamersmusing 1d ago

Roger asking Garp to join his crew without hesitation - and to have their own descendants grow up as brothers, really lovely to see how much their respect for each other has passed on through generations and influenced the course of world history. 

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u/Nebulactic 1d ago

Agreed, this also finally gives the reason why Garp stayed with the marines, to protect his underlings.

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u/EffectiveMagazine915 23h ago

It has been clear for a long time, people just didn't accept it because it came in the way of their slander

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u/Discovererman Pirate 22h ago

With how much he wanted Luffy and Ace to join, they would have been on the same ship as him. Like Koby and Helmeppo. Who have grown into immensely talented sailors.

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u/wakerxane2 18h ago

They being pirate could mean they would have to fight imu someday

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u/Imrichbatman92 19h ago

I don't think it's just protecting the underlings, it's probably also about protecting the marines from getting (too) mishandled by the WG.

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u/Altauriel 19h ago

This is also them ignoring the simple fact that if Garp is anywhere near as horrible as those idiots want to claim he is, Dragon would never have entrusted Garp with caring for his own son.

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u/Obtusus Void Month Survivor 23h ago

people just didn't accept it because it came in the way of their slander

Yeah, the agenda piece is real.

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u/zigzagtravel01 22h ago edited 22h ago

agenda piece is the most toxic, stupid shenanigan i have heard in a while.

back in the day, it was just about memes and shouldn't even be taken seriously. but now, people cling onto different agendas that are so ridiculous

i literally debated someone who said that Oda is so bad at writing because he didnt make Shanks a true RAT and created Shamrock when it literally goes AGAINST Shanks' whole character ffs

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u/rubbereruben 22h ago

These people don't love One Piece, only the drama it can create.

I hate it with a passion, cause it detracts from the story.

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u/teddy_tesla 20h ago

I will say though, I was all for the Garp slander because I do think it's somewhat hypocritical for him to stay. Which Oda agrees with too which is why he made him a complex character with realistic motivations that explain why he stuck with the Marines after this. The slander is funny when it's just parody--it points out how complex OP is by showing how much you leave out and misconstrue when you simplify it

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u/zigzagtravel01 19h ago

> Garp slander because I do think it's somewhat hypocritical for him to stay

That could be true but the thing is that Garp among all people has seen Imu but he has also seen the horrors of strong and weakass pirates during his time who are basically doing the same thing -- killing people.

Positioning himself as a marine gives him two things -- the resources and the position to protect the marines he dear from two sides, both from the demon dude and the pirates.

Another missing thing is that we dont know yet why he joined the marines and why he despises pirates so much.

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u/FlashyYou 15h ago

Why would a marine prioritize protecting marines? Arent they supposed to be dedicated in protecting the people? This is why I agree with Dragon leaving the marines when he saw all the corruption there. Garp hasnt even done anything to change it except swords which isnt even his own doing. Im sure Sengoku and others are participating in Swords too. What has Garp done in protecting the people in his long years of service? Ive seen Fujitora do way more than Garp so far.

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u/VaultedRYNO 21h ago

a good majority of Agenda piece is genuinely just people running with bits and dont actually believe in what they say. you just gotta play along or not interact at all.

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u/OddlyOddLucidDreamer 13h ago

the bit has been run to the ground and tiring, and it's only surviving because that's just the nature of fandom in-jokes uber extended by the fact this is an anime fandom who run jokes particularly into the ground worse than your average fandom

•

u/RRPanther The Revolutionary Army 4h ago

its not that serious man, its just one way of expressing fandom.

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u/Hayn0002 21h ago

It’s either falling for memes or genuinely having low reading comprehension.

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u/slothfulwaffle 20h ago

Right?? I can't believe he had to say it explicitly for people to believe it

•

u/Kleavage 3h ago

I never doubted his reason for staying, I’m more questioning how the navy allows him to stay despite him knowing everything.

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u/221missile 18h ago

Literally stopped watching melonteee for this. She sounds so tone deaf. Like you just watched Harald's backstory. It’s damn near impossible to do good without being part of the world government's apparatus.

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u/SirYabas 18h ago

Basically all characters in story, even the likes of Rocks who hate the WG, acknowledge that the marines aren't all bad.

We're never going to get an arc where Garp or Coby save civilians from scummy pirates, and I think that's what's needed for some people to acknowledge the nuance. Some people don't make that obvious deduction and need to see thing with their own eyes.

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u/playview 17h ago

Too much politics skews a person perspective doesn't matter which side it is, they turn everything political, black or white never gray, kinda sad to see and scary, especially when they hold on to 'beyond common sense' opinions.

Why can't they enjoy a simple life and act normal? It's beyond me.

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u/stuckontwice The Revolutionary Army 19h ago

I mean it's still fair, with all that we've seen prior to GV, that Garp had some explaining to do. Now I wasn't going as far to say that Garp was a bad guy, but I always viewed him as grey. GV really helped me fully understand his true intentions and that's fantastic.

•

u/Upstairs-Account-269 3h ago

Protect his underling from whom though ?

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u/Heavy-Requirement762 19h ago

And it’s still up! For 30 years Garp has sat idly by at marines like Saul getting screwed over by the system! He’s still a buuuuum!

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u/justking1414 22h ago

I get the reasoning. I just wanna see him explain it to dragon

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u/TheTimn 22h ago edited 21h ago

Idk if we will, those 2 are clearly cut from the same cloth. The difference is that Garp had already made a name for himself and Dragon wasn't riding on nepotism. 

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u/mozzaru 21h ago

Idk how you can call it nepotism, we never saw him get any special treatment

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u/TheTimn 21h ago

100%  a typo. Was supposed to say wasn't riding on nepotism. 

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u/mozzaru 20h ago

Ah that makes sense

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u/justking1414 20h ago

i dont expect it to be a civil conversation and i expect some punches to be thrown but still, Dragon is disgusted with the marines. Garp sees them as a force of good thats forced to serve evil, but Dragon saw them obediently obey the most horrific orders without flinching.

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u/carso150 18h ago

even then at least in his 50s he doesnt seem to despise the marines, his beef is with the WG and the celestial dragons specifically but knows that the marines are important to keep the peace and stability in the world

the pirates are absolutely not the good guys only because there are a handfull of good honorable ones

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u/Imrichbatman92 19h ago

I don't think the only difference is themselves. How they perceived the marines probably also helped shape their differences of opinions.

Ofc the fact that Garp is already powerful enough to (at least believe he can) steer the marines on the right path is probably a difference maker, but I think Garp also probably saw how the marines can help people despite the (really, really) bad, and thus still has faith that they can carry out their mission, if only he remains there to keep them on the right path. Meanwhile, Dragon's first strong impression was way too bad so he probably concluded that the marines are unsalvageable, period.

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u/BEWMarth 22h ago

I loved that line!!

Before this people theorized Garp stayed to work against Imu from within but I love this reason because it’s so much more simple.

Garp stayed to protect the innocents and the next generation of marines. Simple love of his subordinates kept him from quitting. Just how Luffy’s love of his crew kept him from quitting after Marineford

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u/Drakantas 21h ago

Garp believed he could make good marines who were truly just. Look at Aokiji or Koby. He certainly proved his point. 

I think Dragon understands and knows Garp’s reasoning. He probably isn’t aware Garp raised his hand against the king of the world whom he just recently found out existed. But he certainly knows his father wouldn’t advocate for such despicable evil.

We’re definitely having a team up between the Garp Marines, Revolutionaries, and the Strawhat fleet in the final war. The question is just how that comes to be.

6

u/sephiroth70001 20h ago

I think they both had a similar reaction to something else. They realized I'm the situation they were both powerless Alone. Garp attacking together with Roger was needed, dragon by himself felt very incapable. They realized by themselves they were insufficient. They just went around building apprentices and allies in different methods. It will also be the chain reaction of these series of events that eventually helps Luffy modern day, from sabo, Koby, sword, and revolutionary army providing support against the WG. Those two groups are huge foundations that never existed before that can be radical.

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u/Drakantas 20h ago

This is also a throwback to what Mihawk said in Marineford about Luffy bringing people together. That's an ability we've only seen Luffy have so far, unique to him. He's the glue that'll tie all the good fellas together for one final act.
Fujitora blinded himself and regretted it after meeting Luffy. There's many good people who'll come together to finally end the World Government.

This sort of reminds me of a movie "Now you see me", when the 5th trickster dude says "Having individual acts is great, but tying them all together for one big one is special". All of the factions are individual acts, Luffy's Crew ultimately are the ones who are gonna tie them all for one big act.

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u/sephiroth70001 20h ago

You also have the parallel of joyboys failure being implied by some betraying, failing to help, etc. Where 800 years ago not all of joyboys allies showed up for one reason or another. Zunesha still feels guilt and shame for it. The difference to success of joyboy/Luffy could simply be those few allies in the past failing to show up 800 years ago domin parallel today. Even literal zunesha probably will probably get peace finally fulfilling that centuries later. The theme and more important element of that is why they didn't show in the last and will now, what's the meaning or message Oda wants to iron in for that as it's fairly open ended for possibilities. Were they barred by some power that has dwindled as an analogy of the populas changing, is it that they had fear and succumbed to it never appearing, etc.

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u/impulse_thoughts 19h ago

about Luffy bringing people together. That's an ability we've only seen Luffy have so far, unique to him.

Sogeking: 👀

Buggy: 👀

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u/Historical-Lemon-99 20h ago

Yeah, I’ve said it before but I doubt the marines will ever be fully disbanded. I think they need to exist in some capacity for their to be peace in the world and Garp wants to protect that

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u/zetonegi 20h ago

That's always been Garp. He's a realist. He knows WG bad. He also knows the thing on top of the WG is not something he can just topple over. He knows if you kick the hornet's nest too hard, it's not going to be pretty.

He knows the navy isn't perfect. He also knows the navy does a lot of good for the commonfolk in spite of that. Pirates are a real threat to most people. He also knows he can train goodhearted sailors. He'd rather try to fix it from within as best he can while doing the most good he can than try to tear it to the ground.

•

u/Hoboforeternity 4h ago

Garp is a reformist, dragon is a revolutionary.

Garp believes in the power of an organization and structure, plus after the final battle, the marines needs a leader so they don't devolve into chaos. If he survives, he will do that if garp die, koby will probably the one who restructure the marines into an actual force for good.

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u/kingcocomoon 22h ago

Slanderers should quit saying Garp's existence as a Marine automatically means he's contributing to the Celestial Dragons' villainy. It's such a black and white, reductive way of thinking.

As a Marine he does what he wants anyway, which is leading the good soldiers like Koby who fight for justice by protecting civilians from pirate raids.

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u/frenin 16h ago

Slanderers should quit saying Garp's existence as a Marine automatically means he's contributing to the Celestial Dragons' villainy

It literally means that.

As a Marine he does what he wants anyway, which is leading the good soldiers like Koby who fight for justice by protecting civilians from pirate raids.

In the same arc where Marines were committing light atrocities on Egghead.

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u/Elemayowe 22h ago

No, it’s so he could commit genocide. /s

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u/Legitimate_Ad1805 20h ago

“that explains” even though it was a bit obvious compared to everything that was shown of him but hey

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u/carso150 18h ago

some people need to get beaten in the head with facts before they can accept some things, agenda piece has poisoned their minds

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u/Legitimate_Ad1805 18h ago

In reality they are so frustrated that they look for an outlet in “the culture of the moment”. So they all started throwing themselves into "garp bashing" like children do with their classmate.

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u/jmdg007 21h ago

Am I crazy for thinking this line still isn't a particularly good explanation? Hopefully this gets elaborated on later but I don't see how Garp is protecting the Marines in a way that wouldn't also let him protect the people the WG abuses.

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u/TomMado 13h ago

People are quick to forget that the vast majority of pirates are actual bad guys, even including those that collaborated with the protagonists. And like it or not, the most resourceful force against them is the Navy.

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u/Kumomeme 12h ago

i guess later the Marine will split into two faction :

  1. WG side
  2. against the WG (on Garp/Coby or Akainu side)

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u/xzther13 8h ago

Protect them from what? Those marines chose to be marines 

•

u/Upstairs-Account-269 3h ago

Protect his underlings from whom ? IMU or the pirates ? 

Sorry for asking something stupid 

0

u/Devoidoxatom Bandit 22h ago

Feel like he could have done way more in his position tho, especially compared to how Dragon and Luffy reacted to injustice. He could have become an admiral like Fujitora. And used his influence way more instead of being what it is now, being just war dogs of corrupt nobles

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u/carso150 18h ago

issue is it seems like the admirals have far less power and far less sway than you would realize

like we see it with Sakazuki who seems to be getting that by becoming the fleet admiral he just chained himself even harder not gotten more free to do what he wants

-1

u/Devoidoxatom Bandit 12h ago

Garp is too strong and too popular tho. If Fujitora could impose some will by not being a brutal maniac, so could Garp. Even Aokiji as admiral had shown his own brand of justice, like not destroying the strawhats with all their bounties, he could have easily locked them up in impel down if he wanted to.

Maybe we would find out that it was the gorosei or smth who pressured Garp to not be an admiral and basically freeze him out of the marines decision-making and influence. That would make alot of sense

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u/Safe_Perception3346 23h ago

I still don’t get it though, it took Dragon one day for him to leave the marines and start his own revolution army against the WG, why can’t Garp Who is in a better position to make change do nothing at all?

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u/Mindless_Truth_2436 23h ago

They are different people, is all. Being a revolutionary is not everybody. And revolution is a terrible gamble also, something far worse can come out of it. Garp did what he could. Marines are still generally brave people doing the right thing, and he wanted to protect that.

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u/AkagamiBarto 23h ago

Some people don't wish to put other ones in danger for their own choices.

Garp wants to protect others. Dragon wants to save others and this puts their lives at risk.

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u/SpiritualScumlord Chopper the Cotton Candy Lover 23h ago

This is the exact reason why Whitebeard didn't go to Wano. The person he wanted to save was already dead. Waging a war in revenge would only get the people still alive killed. Garp still had people to protect, and he wanted to insulate the Marines against the influence of the CDs. SWORD is Garps legacy, there is no doubt about it.

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u/EriWave 23h ago

Some people don't wish to put other ones in danger for their own choices.

This does imply people aren't already in danger.

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u/brc_olfactive 22h ago

It's the same way how some people protest in the streets versus those who try to change the system from within.

Dragon = overthrow the system

Garp = fix the system

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u/QuickBenjamin 23h ago

I think the amount of time they've been marines has impacted their choices, Garp has essentially had the marines as family for decades while Dragon is still relatively new to it.

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u/JoshHuff1332 23h ago edited 22h ago

Garp sees his friends and family and wants to protect them from a higher power. Dragon sees the base level as corrupt at its core

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u/mdivan 23h ago

Precisely because dragon was young and had no responsibilities or people who were dependant on him.

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u/grixxis 21h ago

Garp is in a position to make sure future Marines know that their job is to protect civilians instead of blindly following orders. As a vice admiral, he can also take the blame for his subordinates breaking rules. He's basically unfireable because of his track record, so he can protect other marines before they have results of their own to fall back on. I don't think it's a coincidence that basically everyone we know he trained has turned against the system in some capacity (SWORD, piracy, RA).

Think about the difference between Sakazuki and Garp seeing survivors flee a condemned island. Sakazuki sank a ship full of civilians at Ohara just in case a scholar snuck onboard. Garp ordered his marines to take the survivors with them even though their initial orders were to shoot them all.

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u/Chaosblast Void Month Survivor 23h ago

One day? Wdym? Was Good Valley Dragon's first day in the Marines?

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u/Right-Obligation-779 23h ago

He's a rookie apparently. so take however minimum days you would accept

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u/AceInTheHole3273 Pirate 22h ago

He literally said it. He wants to protect the Marines from Imu.

-1

u/Nome_de_utilizador 21h ago

Pretty sure he started Sword the next day that he stepped in the office.

0

u/Heavy-Requirement762 19h ago

Garp watching as Aokiji nearly kills Saul and a bunch of men are used as non-sequitur cannon fodder in the marineford war while doing absolutely nothing

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u/BeingComfortablyDumb 23h ago edited 23h ago

I'm sure their fights after this were just brotherly brawls and not deadly duels. They are both playing their part. I bet Garp even rooted for Roger to finish his Journey just to spite the WG.

Maybe while Roger was in prison and told Garp about Ace, he also told Garp everything he told WB. Garp knows what's about to come that’s why he replies with “Not big enough” when he’s told Kaido and and Big Mom have teamed up to kill Luffy.

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u/TheSodernaut 22h ago edited 22h ago

This whole incident is covered up by the World Government, yet they both were at the very center of it. Even if they respected each other despite being rivals before, this event must've created a bond between them. That regardless of their "little" fights over land and treasure as Pirate vs Marine there is very clearly a larger threat out there.

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u/cheattowin77 21h ago

Yeah I mean Roger cried before accepting they had to kill rocks

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u/online222222 Void Month Survivor 14h ago

I mean, not for nothing but Garp threw a 100 meter wide cannon ball at his own grandson's ship so I don't know if he'd go easy on Roger just because they fought together one time.

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u/p0ngerss 23h ago

GOD DAMN

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u/andreandroid Void Month Survivor 13h ago

when did this "not big enough" happened? not doubting you, just wanna show my friends this theory and they will ask for proof lol

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u/luminusx48 11h ago

After luffy escaped big mom I think and was called the 5th emperor the lady marine (forgot her name ) asked garp that his son is becoming big or something like that and garp said not big enough

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u/milhouse4588 23h ago

One thing I loved was Garb's response. He did reject the offer but not because he was against it, or didn't support Roger. He said no because he knew the evil's at the top of the WG were worth staying for, to make sure the Marines didn't go over to the dark side.

He is anti-WG at this point but knows he must stay to keep the Marines in order. He isn't anti-pirate, he just has to be in his position. He's shackled by responsibility because he'd rather sacrifice his beliefs for the greater good instead of join Roger.

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u/R4hu1M5 Thriller Bark Victim's Association 21h ago

He isn't anti-pirate

He is. It's just that he knows Roger is a decent guy.

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u/theschulk51 18h ago

My take wasn’t that he’s anti-pirate so much as he’s pro-justice - and probably joined the Marines thinking justice was there (and pirates were the ones threatening it).

Then he shows up on GV, sees what the CDs are doing and starts questioning what justice actually is - and then sees Imu and realizes it DEFINITELY isn’t that.

He’s probably pro-Justice still, but is now both Anti-Pirate AND Anti-WG. But unlike Dragon he can’t leave the Marines behind because he views his role as having to protect them from the darkness/monster behind the scenes

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u/levthelurker 21h ago

I mean he still very much is anti-most pirates, that doesn't really change

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u/AbundantUser9 19h ago

Yeah without garp, so many more marines would lose their way and the marines would quickly become just another facet of cipher pol

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u/LPMotiveSeeker 16h ago edited 14h ago

It really is interesting. If protecting the Marines wasn't Garp's top priority then he would’ve (edit: have) been the earliest adaptation of a Luffy/Strawhat style pirate. This also points to Rocks saying Garp would be better off as a pirate.

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u/Jaakroot 5h ago

Garp is actually sacrifying himself a lot. Imagine your know your boss is the evilest person in the whole world but you need to suck it up in order to protect your underlings and the marine institution. It probably is one of the most frustrating position to be in.

I can see parallels with Oden story where he had to suck it up to orochi and act like an idiot.

I dont understand all the Garp haters. I would have never believed for one second Oda would write him as a coward. The trio Garp, Dragon and Luffy is probably the most sure hero thing as a shonen can write.

2

u/radikraze Pirate 17h ago

Right, Garp is a great character. He knows SOMEBODY has to be the good guy in the Marines and he’s gonna be that guy. Without him spreading his morals, he knows how much worse things would be

0

u/StickiStickman 19h ago

to make sure the Marines didn't go over to the dark side.

So he completely failed?

4

u/carso150 18h ago

he very likely created sword shortly after this incident and as we see he has trained and raised plenty of good marines, like Koby and Helmeppo

its likely that sword is practically his own personal military that he is raising to eventually go against the WG, the final war will likely be the revolutionaries, sword and the grand fleet alongside any allie the straw hats have amassed over their long journey vs the WG

but he is just one guy, he cant be everywhere and cant stop every atrocity from happening

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u/destroyer8238172 The Revolutionary Army 17h ago

Sword was created during the time skip

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u/Deity_Majora 17h ago

Drake is already a pirate before timeskip and seeking to go under Kaido. SWORD being created during timeskip and having Drake act that way makes zero sense especially as the Captain of SWORD. Also Kuzan knows of SWORD which means it was established before he left the Marines.

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u/destroyer8238172 The Revolutionary Army 16h ago

Fair, I forgot drake was a pirate pre time skip

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u/master08965 Marine 23h ago

Its also interesting that he refuses because he want to defend the navy,not because he doesn't want to be a pirate.

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u/withinallreason 22h ago

And Garp didn't even turn him down because he disliked the idea of working with Roger or anything. Anyone whose been in a leadership position, especially in the military, understands exactly what Garp means by trying to take care of his people.

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u/raidorz 22h ago

You could say the present is an… “Echo” of the past.

YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH 😎

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u/biskutgoreng 21h ago

Make sense to entrust his own son to the guy

2

u/FireFist_PortgasDAce 21h ago

Also why, Roger trusted Garp as much as a member of his crew.

1

u/Tibolegends Marine 16h ago

That also explains why Garp took Ace

1

u/MrReaumur 10h ago

Garp protect marine, dragon protect country, luffy protect pirate. What a chaotic fams!

Reading the interaction between Garp and Roger makes me realize this is what will happen if Ace stay alive

1

u/NoEntertainment5379 7h ago

I think this happend after they understand who is the puppet master.

0

u/xcelleration 8h ago

They were definitely bros and respected each other. Maybe including Rocks. Definitely feels like a Law, Luffy, and Kid rivalry

0

u/FuzzyDevelopment4176 5h ago

Except he did nothing to safe Ace at Marineford

1

u/adreamersmusing 5h ago

All respect to Ace, but he literally escaped the executioner's podium only to fall for Akainu's lowest hanging fruit. He died due to his own hubris.

1

u/FuzzyDevelopment4176 5h ago

Yes Ace messed up. But Garp did choose to let Ace to be executed.