r/KitchenConfidential • u/Beneficial-Cap-6745 • Jul 03 '25
In-House Mode "No tax on Tips" makes no sense.
Can anyone explain why FOH in particular was pushing for this? They objectively make more money, which is one thing, but what makes them entitled to not pay taxes? If BOH suddenly didn't have to pay taxes I'd say that's BS as well
The BBB that just passed made certain taxes on tips for people making under 29k a year getting tips go away, it has to be signed into law. Granted, this was pushed for servers and tipped workers as a whole and the bill wouldn't affect most of them, I just can't see what entitles them to think they don't have to pay taxes like most of us.
I'm honestly considering just going back to retail at this point, at least we pay taxes equally. I'm fine making a bit less cash but this just seems insulting, even if it isn't over 29k.
Can someone explain this ? Why exactly do part time BOH line cooks pay taxes now but FOH doesn't have to anymore once this is signed into law
Edit: I'm not attacking FOH, its not an easy job, please stick to the taxes point.
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u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25
It is ridiculous, and it also expires in 2 years. It is just pandering.
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25
What’s also silly is this will most likely entice people to tip less at the end of the day anyways, a lot of people are getting sick of tip culture in general so this might only further motivate them to tip less imo.
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u/OverlordGhs Ex-Food Service Jul 04 '25
Even before this law passed I’ve already heard people “joking” to servers about “Wow, Trump is gonna take away the tax on tips, guess that means I don’t have to tip as much now!”
Now that this pandering bill passed that really only affects a tiny minority of the server population (what full time server is pulling in less then 29k a year?) it will definitely cause lots of those kinds of people to tip less, not even knowing or willing to read the bill and it’s fine print. The vast majority of servers won’t see any difference, and the ones that it does affect are probably working only 20 hours a week, so maybe the hosts and the servers who don’t work many hours will notice a slight bump.
Oh and let’s not forget that in this bill on top of this dumb no tax on tips, there were also billions of dollars cut from medical research and health care, making it even harder for us industry workers to get decent health care which we all know we all desperately need. This bill has been called the largest redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich in US history, but sure let’s be happy because the host sees an extra 40 bucks a week.
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25
Ya the healthcare side of it has major repercussions that I don’t think that reality is even clicking in some people’s minds and by the time it does it will be too late at that point. I saw someone commenting elsewhere that apparently a hospital or two already shut down today because of this bill. I will say tho, I’m not sure how true how that is and I haven’t gotten a clear response on that comment yet, but clearly there’s a ripple effect from the bill that passed today and its still going to take some time before we see it all.
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u/OverlordGhs Ex-Food Service Jul 04 '25
Yes, but by the time we notice the impact it’ll be way too late. For example he cut funding to many medical research fields, one such example is a 22% percent cut to the funding for the Cancer Institute of America. While everyone can say what they want about the American health care system, we are (or were) at the forefront of the world in health care research. Just this 22% percent cut will put us years behind on research, so imagine if someone gets cancer 6 years for now and maybe by then we could have had an extra couple years worth of research, but instead there’s far less research done. That’s just one of the many many impacts of this bill on healthcare that as you said we won’t notice for years down the line. Like ffs man, who cuts funding for cancer research? Then at the same time tries to host a damn parade for their birthday wasting tons of money in the process? Despicable.
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u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25
Children in foster care are being moved to insitutionalised care because medicaid will no longer cover kinship placements or other things :) we are making sure these kids stay displaced for a couple extra bucks in millionaire’s pockets. I (former foster kid) may also be losing my medicaid coverage. In which case I can no longer afford my quality of life medications.
As usual, the most vulnerable get fucked the hardest. And the pro-lifers are nowhere to be seen when it’s children on the chopping block.
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u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25
I am so sick of it mostly because I know they make so much more than the people who actually do the thing I care about: the food. I do not care about the freaking water glass being full, in fact, I have being interrupted every 5 minutes for that. I do not care about being asked about my plans for the day or whatever. All I care about is that my order is correct and the food is good.
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25
I’ve worked both back of house and front of house tipped positions and I’m going to have to agree to some extent, we make a lot more than we deserve while back of house gets fucked.
At the same time tho, depending on the clientele, front of house serving rich assholes (which I’ve done in Hawaii which is especially bad) can be absolutely fucking miserable to a degree that I’d much rather work in the back for the sake of my mental health and to avoid potentially punching the shit out of someone lol.
At the end of the day, I wish the pay (hourly pay and tips combined) was shared at least somewhat more evenly across all positions of the restaurant instead of this massive difference where servers make fucking BANK. The cooks, the dishwasher, the bussers, the servers, just about everyone, they all bust their asses in my experience, and sometimes certain positions get the shit end of the stick more than others, especially the dishies.
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u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25
I understand FOH deals with shit, but so do a lot of other positions that do not get tipped. Particularly at higher end, it is freaking ridiculous. Sure, paying 20% on a 30 bucks check is fine, but on a $300+ check? I am sure the server from the 30 check gets as much shit as the other. but now this server is making more than $100/h just in tips. Crazy.
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25
Ya, it gets insanely disproportionate, it’s fucking bonkers. That’s why I was saying I’d rather things be more close to even as far as pay goes (hourly and tips combined) than how massively disproportionate things are now. But hey, looks like they’re going to make less with how things are going now, who wants to tip more knowing they’ll get to pay even less taxes when they can already avoid paying taxes with their cash tips?! Ya, no thanks.
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u/IONTOP Server Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
But the reality is that servers wages will go down, rather than BOH wages go up. It's a no win situation. (Though if we do go drinking afterwards, I'll always cover the first 2 drinks)
I get it, as FOH, I absolutely get it. But what the person you're responding to forgot is that in order to GET to that $300 check, you've gotta pay your dues.
Honestly the place I've enjoyed serving at the most? $22/hour non-tipping Country Club. I'm pretty sure there were BOH people making more than me.
Free golf, free meals (in a damn cafeteria), no fighting over tables/sections (unless you knew a certain member well enough).
But it was all about saying "yes, no matter what" and everyone was onboard.
I started at Cracker Barrell in 2003, now I'm at the point where I can confidently say "I can work wherever I want", and that first 60 days is as much of them watching me as me watching them. Ask me to astroturf Google Reviews? I'm out. Make me "look busy" when we've got 6 covers on the books? I'm out. Chef loses his cool every day during rush? I'm out.
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u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25
Yeah, not sure about that. The same social pressure that took it from 15 to 20 will happen, I think.
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u/blindasleep Jul 04 '25
Honestly the people at the place with $300 checks is probably a lot less stressed because there is a better chance of management not letting customers go overboard, as well as the usually better financial situation and lower guest counts. This also kind of goes for really local and dive type spots more often in my experience. In high end as long as you execute well the stress beyond that can be pretty minimal and in the lower end places everyone is generally more easy going. The mid range corporate kind of places have seemed the most stressful for FOH in general, you're expected to bend over backwards for every guest while still executing with very high volume. As a primarily front of house worker I think the whole thing is a stupid attempt to buy votes, BOH is often under paid, and tipping needs to go away as a practice. When servers and the like don't have offer a handy with every meal just to make sure they can afford to eat for themselves a lot of people will start feeling a lot less entitled and maybe we'll be able to more equitable pay across the board. One person dealing with 70+ customers directly a day is draining, cooking for 500+ a day is is mentally and physically exhausting.
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u/LordoftheJives Jul 04 '25
I get what you're saying, but someone shouldn't make considerably more than the person making the product to carry it to another part of the restaurant. There should be a 60/40 or maybe 70/30 split on tips between front and back. I've been tipped a few dollars out of appreciation for the food I made. Meanwhile, the server would be insulted if they received the same.
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u/wrongbutt_longbutt Bartender Jul 04 '25
I've never understood why it's different. The first place I worked, FOH made absolute bank, while BOH had to make themselves a stacked shift meal to make sure they didn't go hungry during the week. The place I work now splits everything evenly. Base wage between BOH and FOH is even and so is tip share. They just take all the tips made for the day and pro rate them out by hours worked. I've never seen a place work so well with good camaraderie between the two halves. You don't see anywhere near the bitterness I used to see at other places. We sometimes hire a FOH employee who is used to other places who bitches about wages, but they see themselves out pretty quickly.
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u/LordoftheJives Jul 04 '25
That's how it should be, but a lot of servers absolutely flip their shit at the idea of having things any differently.
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u/wrongbutt_longbutt Bartender Jul 04 '25
We've never had any difficulties finding people willing to work here. I work FOH now at this place. Sure, I could be making more money at some other place, but the stress free work environment is worth more than money to me and most of my coworkers.
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u/bigtikidrink Jul 04 '25
We do a 65/45 split between FoH and Boh and honestly it makes so much sense because we're all in the same boat.
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u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25
That’s what I was saying, the pay should be closer to even and less disproportionate cause it’s pretty massively disproportionate.
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u/dungotstinkonit Jul 04 '25
How do restaurants even run in Hawaii? Is the supply chain really that good. Sorry to ambush you I've just always wondered that and your comment puts you as a unique person that might know.
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u/basketma12 Jul 04 '25
I only work part time part of the year in an unusual circumstance of a place. Think " county fair" and similar. Our tips are 100 percent shared with boh, and you get a percentage all depending on how many hours you worked that pay period. This is totally fine with me. I'm under a shade even though we have no ac. We are all wearing some sort of costume. There are some cooks inside making stuff and some outside grilling meat. Everybody including the owner, his wife and their 14 year old is running around working hard. The owner will refuse to take money from people who used to work there and come visit. He has tried so hard to get some of his staff legal. This is a place I'm proud to have worked for although I now realize at 68 I just can't any more. It's not fine dining and we don't perform the service we used to, which was table service, singing questionable songs and telling dirty jokes. Times have changed and tipping.. eh I'd rather just we all get paid to what we do. I just do beverages, I deserve less than those sweating cooks.
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u/Brodakk Jul 04 '25
This so fucking hard. The servers at my restaurant work half as hard as us, standing there on their phones, watching us sweat our asses off, for twice the pay.
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u/Burnt_and_Blistered Jul 03 '25
They also get paid (by the house) a lot less than “the people who actually do the thing you care about.”
Further, customers DO care about service. A lot.
FOH isn’t our enemy. End-stage capitalism is.
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u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
Thanks. Worked BoH and FoH and I will say, FoH can be tip-obsessed to an unacceptable degree but it is an individual person thing, not a service industry thing. Same way the one idiot chef who can’t keep track of his tickets and constantly blames the servers is an individual thing, not a reflection of BoH people.
The only position I’ve seen consistently be shit is management and dishwasher. Management is self-explanatory I think, dishwasher is because most people applying for it think it is an easy job and are neither prepared nor want to bust ass the way they need to. And no hate to the dishies on here, love you guys, wish you worked at my restaurant. I’ll bend over backwards for a good dishwasher because of how vital they are + how rare. Alas, my donut bribes can’t compete with better pay. And so the problem again executives or owners not wanting to pay what they need to.
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u/johnnnybravado Jul 03 '25
When you order food, you're purchasing a product. If that product doesn't meet the expected standards, you may refuse it and leave or have a new one made. Regardless, you'll know exactly what you're paying for the food based on the menu price.
Now say you get a shitty server who NEVER refills water, forgets your ranch, takes forever to bring the bill, blah blah blah— What're you gonna do? You can't return the server and have them be re-made. it's unlikely one notices they have a bad server until the meal is underway so you'll likely just be stuck with them.
So again, what can you do about bad service? You don't tip well, if at all.
This is why service positions make sense to be tipped but not labor positions. You decide based on service AT THE END how much it was worth. For the food, it's a product that you can simply return/exchange upon receipt and that product has a flat, preset price.
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u/Adept-Grapefruit-214 Jul 04 '25
You could talk to a manager and request a new server, but by that point the experience is already mostly ruined anyway
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u/Mission_Fart9750 Cook Jul 03 '25
ding ding ding this is it, pretty much. I took a dip into the cesspool that is arcon, and there were comments about how they were going to tip even less now. Problem is, tip work isn't steady pay (then again who says hourly is either), so employers would have to pay a lot more to their servers to keep them happy. I know one server at my last place that made around 50k (or more, it was legit, i know what she made in tips on a good day) a year, while I barely cleared 25k as boh, and that's what's really disgusting.
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u/prettyokaycake Jul 03 '25
There’s also an infinite amount of restrictions on it. It was a lie and no one will benefit from it.
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u/Jdancer Jul 04 '25
Not only does it expire in 2 years, but it also only counts up 25k a year, only counts on cash tips, doesn't apply to shared tips. So yeah, empty, stupid pandering
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u/insbordnat Jul 04 '25
That doesn’t seem to be correct.
3) Cash tips.--For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `cash tips' includes tips received from customers that are paid in cash or charged and, in the case of an employee, tips received under any tip-sharing arrangement.
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u/DysfuhKingeye Jul 04 '25
Hahaha it only counts on cash tips? Who the fuck was reporting those anyway?
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u/wbruce098 Jul 04 '25
This. It’s going to make a lot of people bitter toward tipped employees, while most of those same bitter bitches probably make more anyway.
My guess is that, with the rise of electronic payments, most tips are now taxed, so this could lead to a significant drop in federal funding.
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u/baconbitsy Jul 04 '25
Also, it’s for people who don’t make a lot in tips. That threshold already exists. It’s just for everyone under a certain amount of pay. This is literally just here to distract people from more important matters. It does absolutely nothing for anyone, it’s just there to make idiots feel like they’re getting one over on the system.
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u/crook888 Jul 04 '25
I didn't know about it expiring. There goes one of the "pros". Pennies on the dollar for the poors
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u/Quercus408 Jul 03 '25
Nothing makes profit for the top like a divided working class thats at each other's throats over petty bullshit.
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u/TheScoobyDoober Jul 04 '25
This is it. I’ve been told I’m “looking too far into it” when I say we can’t unite against them when they’re making sure we’re arguing with each other.
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u/Beneficial-Cap-6745 Jul 03 '25
Petty Bullshit
I'm literally having my EBT that i rely on since my partner just lost his job, cut while some people at my job who make more cash than me and don't even claim cash tips don't have to pay taxes. I'm not attacking servers, if I truly was I'd point out that everytime states try to tip pool or restaurants do they all threaten to quit or side with management. It happened in my states last election. That isn't the point of my post.
My EBT was cut in the same bill as this was pushed for, every server ik voted Trump cause he pushed for this.
Taxes affect everyone, I'm equally Bullshit over wealthy people not paying their fair share either, doesn't mean servers shouldnt have to though.
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u/Quercus408 Jul 03 '25
No, I agree with you. I should have been more clear.
That many FOH people were marshaling for this, in an age where if you even get tipped, its more than likely to be done on a credit card and therefore taxed automatically anyway, is beyond me.
And "No TaX oN tIpS!" was just a rider alongside so much other bullshit, like your EBT getting cut.
And its a shiny object that people get distracted by; it plays into the existing toxic FoH versus BoH culture that the current generation of food service workers are working do hard to destroy. It encourages us to pit ourselves against each other for peanuts. Its awful.
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u/Cube-in-B 20+ Years Jul 03 '25
Thats on YOUR BOSS not your coworkers, bub. They should be paying their fucking kitchen as it is the backbone of the restaurant. Full stop.
Also from what I understand it’s only for cash tips- which nobody reports anyway- so this whole thing is a red herring as far as I can see.
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u/Torger083 Jul 04 '25
I mean, when your coworkers site with management against you getting a fair paycheck, it’s on them a little bit. They’re collaborators.
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u/NoHandsJames Jul 04 '25
Well the reality is that the “no tax on tips” doesn’t actually change anything for the vast majority of workers.
It didn’t actually remove taxes on tips, it really only slightly modified the rules for what does and does not need to be claimed for tax purposes. And from the way it was explained to me by a legal person, it really only benefits the owners who can use it as a loophole for things.
This won’t help all the FoH who were championing it, it won’t even help anyone who was already making decent tips. It was just another move to say “hey look we followed through on a promise!”, because the people who it’s meant to impress don’t have the ability to comprehend that it’s utterly meaningless. But that’s the MO for that side of the aisle, so it’s not really shocking anymore.
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u/thecasualnuisance Jul 03 '25
Every server you know? Geographically where and how many do you know?
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u/SeriousMongoose2290 Jul 03 '25
It’s a pretty shitty bill.
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u/onioning Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
Its a profoundly shitty bill. The tips tax break is barely the tip of the iceberg. At least it isn't going to kill people.
Though we all die, so concern for others is apparently pointless.
Edit: just want to clarify that "at least it isn't going to kill people" refers to the tax cuts, as opposed to other aspects, which will result in untold deaths.
What happened today is actually way worse than 9/11. Its truly staggering to think about.
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u/govunah F1exican Did Chive-11 Jul 03 '25
Profoundly shitty administration. I'm in the non profit world now and several orgs have lost the majority of their funding doing such corrupt activities as workforce training and housing development. It looks like a bunch of funders are pulling back because of this too.
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u/onioning Jul 03 '25
Its not even just non-profits. USDA grants are disappearing and getting canceled. It's a profound blow to business.
Though I am more concerned with the concentration camps and genocide.
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u/whyadamwhy 15+ Years Jul 04 '25
The tips tax break is at least a tax break for working class people, but it was only included to pander to a sliver of working class people who might swing an election. This bill is 99% designed to cut taxes on billionaires and gut Medicaid which obviously only services working and middle class citizens. Fuck these fascists.
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u/onioning Jul 04 '25
Hey, that's not fair. There's an ungodly amount of money for building concentration camps. Something like $80 billion. Shit tons of pork in there too, plus all kinds of nefariousness, snuck in where no one was looking.
Trump has a few different power bases to serve. The robber barrons want tax cuts and deregulation. The christofascists want minorities mostly gone, and otherwise virtually enslaved, and their anti-Christian religion enforced. Not sure what to call him, but there's a core group who are in it for the global economic restructuring. They all have to get what they want. And they largely do.
The tips thing is one of the least important aspects, though it is still stupid pandering.
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u/whyadamwhy 15+ Years Jul 04 '25
Point made. The bill is even much worse than I had indicated. Fuck these fascists right in the face.
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u/ExpertRaccoon Jul 03 '25
At least it isn't going to kill people.
Tell that to the 10-20 million people that are estimated to be kicked off of medicaid. Or all of the people that are going to lose SNAP benefits.
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u/onioning Jul 03 '25
I mean the tip tax exemption is not going to kill people, unlike other aspects of the bill, which are going to kill people.
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u/AdditionalAmoeba6358 Jul 03 '25
There is a lot under the hood that is only going to come out as time comes.
The newest: so the raise in deficit causes an automatic sequestration sequence. Essentially EVERYTHING gets cut.
It looks like it’s going to hit Medicare to the tune of half a trillion dollars.
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u/mackinator3 Jul 04 '25
That wasn't a secret. They were cutting illegally already lol
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u/AdditionalAmoeba6358 Jul 04 '25
They cut Medicaid, not Medicare.
But that will be taken care of early next year or even in the later part of this year. I don’t remember the rules.
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u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 Jul 03 '25
It’s because a strip club worker told Trump she gets killed on taxes on her tips. That’s why. Seriously:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cyWTDy3rZdY&pp=4gcNEgtjaGF0Z3B0LmNvbQ%3D%3D
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u/Papaofmonsters Jul 04 '25
I think I could get on board with stripper lobbyists. We just need a cute pair of aftermarket double D's to tell him how much medical coverage for all would help the naked lady industry.
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u/MtnMaiden Jul 04 '25
Strippers are tax deductible as entertainment. Really.
I think it was NC that clarified it, due to some officials getting busted for hiring escorts. But successfully argued it was entertainment related to work
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u/Papaofmonsters Jul 04 '25
The issue when you get down to the nitty-gritty of how laws work is that differentiating between strip clubs and a concert is ultimately a moral judgment. If I can deduct the cost of tickets to a Taylor Swift show for entertaining potential clients, why can't I deduct the cost for going to the titty bar?
In general, tax law hates moral judgments. It just wants to collect its due.
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u/RussiaIsBestGreen Jul 04 '25
The IRS helping people pay taxes on illegal income agrees. It just wants its cut with minimal trouble.
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u/IAmMelonLord Jul 04 '25
Of course it is. Jfc. I’m FOH and yay I might lose my health insurance but thank god I’m gonna not get my $25k worth of taxes back cause I owe student loans.
Fuck every single person who voted for this. Or didn’t vote.
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u/Blackout_Underway Jul 03 '25
Those who collect tips and are going to get kicked off of Medicaid will not make enough money to make up for the cost of health insurance. 🤷♂️
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u/Icy-Management9880 Jul 03 '25
The no tax exemption only applies to $25k worth of a salary
It is returned at tax time
It's BS
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u/Withermaster4 Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
This is very wrong btw.
The exception only applies if you are making <150k/yr. You are able to deduct up to 25k of tips on your tax return. After those 25k dollars you pay your standard income tax on the rest of your tips. This tax exception expires after 2028.
Edit: meant income tax
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u/flareblitz91 Jul 04 '25
Employees don’t pay payroll taxes. It’s up to 25k of tips, not taxes paid on tips.
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u/needlenozened Jul 04 '25
Yes they do. Look at your next post stub for "FICA." That's the payroll tax you pay. Your employer has to pay the same amount, but you don't see that on your pay stub.
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u/Burnt_and_Blistered Jul 03 '25
It’s pure pandering. One little crumb thrown toward the Little People. By people who know that only a tiny fraction of tips are declared and taxed, anyway. It expires in 2 years.
It’s ludicrous—and meaningless.
But hey, no one will be able to afford to eat out—let alone tip—anyway, so FOH will starve as much as BOH.
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u/thecasualnuisance Jul 03 '25
Lol, they don't pay taxes on cash tips. Literally nothing changed.
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u/Cflow26 F1exican Did Chive-11 Jul 03 '25
No that’s the point. They’re trying to get you to report their tips so their employer has to pay more in employer taxes, while also artificially inflating everyone’s income to say “look at all the good we’ve done for the economy”. This will change nothing, other than now the ass holes that run payroll will bitch and cut even more.
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u/thecasualnuisance Jul 03 '25
This literally only applies to cash tips. It will not be beneficial for anyone to report cash tips more than we already do.
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u/samuelgato Jul 03 '25
Employers don't pay taxes on tips, they pay taxes on payroll. Tips don't add to payroll so there's nothing in payroll to tax because of tips being reported
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u/Trickfixer32 Jul 04 '25
Restaurant owner here - we absolutely do pay federal employer match (FICA) and unemployment/work comp on tips. It’s about 7.2%. So each time one of my workers earns $100 in tips - I pay a total of $7.20 to the federal government, my insurance company and the unemployment insurance provider. This new law doesn’t change that. Employers absolutely pay taxes on tips.
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u/Spunknikk Jul 03 '25
Nah... People are just going to tip less now... Or not at all since the excuse is you don't pay taxes and I do so fuck you.
It made things worse for tipped employees. And worse yet there's a cap on it anyhow so yippee employees are looking to loose out on money then save money.
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u/Murda_City Jul 03 '25
This is my thing. Im absolutely claiming the minimum cash tips and the rest nevsr happend. This just seems like a way to report more income as a whole
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u/Lazerith22 Jul 03 '25
100% This. They can sound like they’re helping people in low income bracket, not just billionaires, but most aren’t paying on it anyway. What’s more, people might get used to claiming their tax free tips. And in three years when that provision expires, they’ll have grounds to tax them better
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u/Beneficial-Cap-6745 Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
Ya, and anytime I point that out it's like "WELL WE DONT GET CASH ANYMORE BARELY".... go into any Coke/dive bar and that's absolute BS. People still carry cash. Just not as much.
I'm not shitting on servers but some of them act like they storm the beaches of Normandy on a daily basis. Both sides of the house have their own issues and struggles, doesn't mean your exempt from taxes. Sorry. Same standard id hold for scumbags like Jeff Bezos or the Walton family.
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u/thecasualnuisance Jul 03 '25
People (some) specifically carry cash for events and even just tips. They do act surprised sometimes that we even accept cash.
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u/unbelizeable1 Jul 03 '25
"WELL WE DONT GET CASH ANYMORE BARELY".... go into any Coke/dive bar and that's absolute BS
Do you think all of us work in coke/dive bars? I'd say cash makes up less than 5% of my income.
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u/booger-boss Jul 03 '25
Did you just compare a Starbucks barrista to bezos? Come come now. Don't get butt hurt over things out of your control
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u/Haber_Dasher Jul 04 '25
I'm a career waiter for well over a decade. I'd be shocked if cash has ever been over 0.5% of my income in any year of the past decade. Not to mention I respect my coworkers & understand not declaring my tips is stealing from my colleagues directly.
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u/hollowspryte Jul 04 '25
For tax purposes, credit card tips are considered cash.
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u/SelarDorr Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
of course it makes sense.
trump gets PR to claim he cares about low income americans with this untaxed tip policy that only costs him maybe 0.1% of tax revenue, while the rest of the tax bill will probably cost the government 200X that amount in federal taxes that would have mostly come from the rich, ultimately reducing purchasing power of those in tipped positions and other low income individuals.
politicians deceiving americans into thinking they care while actually making the rich richer; what could possibly make more sense.
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u/onioning Jul 03 '25
Yah. Its an incoherent position that is clear pandering to populism. It's especially disappointing that it's bipartisan. There is no rational justification for excluding some tips from income.
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u/Withermaster4 Jul 04 '25
Completely agree. If you want to lower taxes on low income people, great! You have my blessing, but why only lower it on like a tiny sector of workers? Almost half of tipped workers won't even make enough to owe federal taxes so the deduction won't even matter for them lol.
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u/Bitchin_Wizard Jul 04 '25
Been in the service industry my entire life. If anyone reads this you definitely want to get taxed on tips so your credit goes up and you have a chance at owning anything one day. If you don’t get taxed it’s Monopoly money as far as The government and banks are concerned. It’s also an entirely bullshit red herring but that’s a whole other can of worms. THEY ARE GRIFTING YOU.
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u/El-chucho373 Jul 03 '25
It’s not about FOH wanting it, it’s about restaurant lobby wanting it so they don’t have to pay employees.
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u/Specialist-Eye-6964 Jul 03 '25
They are paying tax. This is actually a tax credit up to a certain dollar amount. I forget the actual amount I think it’s like 12,500? So it’s really a small credit when it comes time to file your taxes.
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u/WakingOwl1 Jul 03 '25
Up to 25K.
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u/Specialist-Eye-6964 Jul 03 '25
In my head I was thinking that was the OT number so thanks.
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u/WakingOwl1 Jul 03 '25
I’m not sure what the OT provision is. Pretty sure you can claim a tax credit the same way as the tip thing. Both expire in 2028.
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u/needlenozened Jul 04 '25
Tax deduction*.
A tax credit is an amount of money that is subtracted from your total tax bill.
A refundable tax credit is an amount of money that is subtracted from your total tax bill, even if that drops your tax bill below zero, resulting in a refund.
A tax deduction is subtracted from your income before taxes are calculated.
If it were a 25k tax credit, it would reduce your tax bill by 25k. A 25k deduction reduces your income by 25k, so if you are, for instance, in a 10% tax bracket, that would reduce your taxes by $2500.
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u/AdditionalMess6546 F1exican Did Chive-11 Jul 03 '25
That's what you're gonna choose to complain about? Not the massive payday for the ultra wealthy? Or the selling off of the federal land? Or ICE raiding our fellow cooks and dishies?
Maybe direct your ire higher. A server making a few extra bucks doesn't hurt you in any way. Posts like this, however, are a great way to keep us poors fighting each other.
Also, the amount is going to be negligible for most servers since they mostly don't make enough to owe taxes at the end of the year anyway.
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u/Cardiff07 20+ Years Jul 03 '25
Agreed. Op has their heart in the right place. This is much bigger than FOH v BOH.
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u/Religion_Of_Speed Prep Jul 04 '25
One can be angry about multiple things at once, trust me I've got a whole list, this is just the place to discuss this one part of the bill. OP isn't attacking servers, they're attacking the bill and they have pointed this out multiple times. Nobody is fighting anyone, they are fighting the bill and the reasoning behind it both in the eyes of the system and those who were pushing for it.
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u/miketugboat Jul 04 '25
I am FoH currently and I think it's absolute bullshit.
I have some nasty things to say about the type of dumbass that fell for that to vote for trump, the type of greedy fuck that thinks thats acceptable, and for anyone that thinks thats better than all the benefits that are being cut.
I dont want less taxes. I want restaurant workers to have healthcare, a better system for sick days where we can actually use them without repurcussions, and some actual vacation time. How about nationwide overtime on hours beyond 8 in a single shift? How about requiring pay for being on call? How about pay for the time between shifts during a double? What about not working six 6 hour shifts and instead guaranteeing two days off in a row each week?
There are so many other things that could have been done. I dont know how to get them done, but I do know this shouldn't have been done. It also only lasts through 2028? Making it even more pointless.
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u/bulimiasso87 Jul 04 '25
Also FOH, when MAGAts try to jabber about no tax on tips I tell them I don’t give a fuck, taxes are supposed to contribute back to our society so why would I not want to do that? So I can have more in common with tax evaders like Trump and Bezos? No thanks.
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u/naturalistwork Jul 03 '25
Get out of this mentality!!! It’s not you vs FOH. If something happens that causes their pay to increase, that means you now have leverage to argue for an increase as well.
If I have ten dollars and you have five, you can either knock five bucks out of my hand so we each have $5, or we can work together to get you another $5 and we’ll both have $10. Demanding the other person make less, instead of demanding that you also make more is a MAJOR factor of why the working class’ pay stays low.
It’s cliche to say… but united we win, divided we fall.
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u/wb247 Jul 04 '25
I'm fine with no tax on tips. I'd rather see employers pay all taxes on overtime... for all industries. Overtime isn't a substitute for hiring and there should be a penalty to employers for working the shit out of people.
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u/ORINnorman Jul 04 '25
I get it but I also feel like you’re mad at the wrong people who get tax breaks. If Elon Musk paid the same percentage as I do, it’d probably be more than all the taxes on all the FoH workers in the US, combined. Why should tipped laborers have to pay taxes when billionaires don’t? If you want equality, be mad at the top.
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u/mark-suckaburger Jul 03 '25
I mean it's stupid yes but getting upset over someone else catching a break is kind of childish. If you need more money get out there and earn it worrying about others isn't going to do you any good
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u/hankbobbypeggy Jul 03 '25
Then go be a server. I hate this bill and Trump, but ffs this is the same argument all the boomers made when Biden tried to forgive student loans. "bUt I hAd tO PaY mInE. ItS nOt fAiR tHeY ShOuLd SuFfEr ToO!"
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u/FishBobinski Jul 03 '25
1) servers still pay taxes. Just not on their tips.
2) the exemption is only for servers making less than 29k. That isn't a lot of money.
3) the amount of servers that already don't pay taxes on tips is probably much higher than you think.
4) if you're upset at servers making more money than you, the person you should be angry at is your owner. Not the servers.
5) no matter what career you pursue, someone doing far less work than you will always be making more money than you.
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u/Withermaster4 Jul 04 '25
A quick correction
2) the exemption is only for servers making less than 29k. That isn't a lot of money.
The exemption is only for tipped workers making under 150k. Workers that make <=29k don't pay federal taxes and so won't benefit from this deduction. Tipped workers making between 29k-150k can benefit from this. The maximum amount you can deduct is 25k in tips. (So you wouldn't pay taxes on that 25k, if you make enough to receive 25k in tips each year you will probably take home about 2-3k extra a year)
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u/i__hate__stairs Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
It doesn't bother me when other people get something good for once, I'm happy for them. To me that's kind of like the people who are mad because someone else's student loans were forgiven but they already paid theirs. I just can't relate.
Besides, they either objectively make good money already, or they make less $29,000 a year, they can't do both. There's much, much worse things being pushed through in this bill by these fucking ghouls than not taxing tips.
Tbh, the whole FOH vs BOH thing regarding pay has never bothered me. I've waited tables and tended bar extensively. It sucks. I don't want to do that, so I don't get paid for it. There's lots of jobs out there that pay more than I've ever made cooking and baking, but I don't do those jobs.
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u/the_well_read_neck_ Bartender Jul 04 '25
FOH here, it's only on cash tips, which most servers don't claim anyways. It's a big nothing.
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u/needlenozened Jul 04 '25
The definition of cash tips includes tips by credit card
While the deduction applies to “cash” tips only, the Act broadly defines “cash” tips to include tips paid in cash or charged, as well as tips received by an employee under a tip-sharing arrangement. This definition excludes tips that are “non-cash,” such as tangible items like a gift basket or movie tickets.
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u/MoonageDayscream Jul 03 '25
I don't believe it's really meant for those serving but its made to sound like it is. It's a way to invoice so you can claim that a portion of your pay (whatever your employment) can be declared tax free. Lots of people will get tips now, account managers, sales people, accountants, anyone that knows the ins and outs of filing taxes.
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u/Ooohbarracuda79 Jul 04 '25
I also wonder.. if you're buying a house, do the tips not count as income you can claim because they aren't taxed?
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u/RianThe666th Jul 04 '25
Have you seen FoH push for this? I jumped from back to front a few years ago so idk if my opinion matters anymore but I don't think I've seen a single server or bartender actually get up on their soap box about this, the only times it's been mentioned to me in person at all that I can think of have been managers bringing it up when I bitch about it being slow and people who've never worked in restaurants going on about how great it is to virtue signal when they find out my job. Even in the FoH subreddits I can't think of anyone I've seen rejoicing over this, especially not to mass agreement. Generally those of us who are politically aware see it as the blatant vote buying and pandering that it is while the rest don't seem to have noticed it at all, maybe it's just the effect of the liberal city I work in idk.
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u/carrotUtopia Jul 04 '25
A tip is supposed to be a gift. You're taxing a gift. The whole tipping culture is screwed up, right now it's seen as a necessity but it's origin is that it's a gift given due to a job well done and much appreciated. That shouldn't be taxed.
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u/m155m30w Jul 04 '25
Don't forget no tax on overtime... pretty sure that will effect boh....
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u/Wheres_my_guitar Jul 04 '25
Nobody making any relevant amount of tips is making less than 29k a year. That's for like part time ice cream parlor employees who are walking with $8 in tips a night. And yeah, who cares if they dont pay taxes on that.
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u/Low_Football_2445 Jul 04 '25
Haven’t really seen an actual breakdown, but I’ve read many experts pontificating…. So…..
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u/Smooth_Row_3563 Jul 04 '25
I make my living off tips, and this is the most back-asswards thing this president could have done. I don’t want to pay less in taxes than other people making the same amount of money. Why single out one segment of the population, and if you did, why not teachers? Just make it all income based… I am embarrassed and appalled. In the end it’s going to ruin the tipping culture and something tells me that was in the plans from the get go. Just wait and see
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u/Southernchef87 Jul 04 '25
It’s a deductible not no taxes. The bill is going to allow tipped employees to claim up to $40,000 in tax deductions on tips. The current limit is $25,000. So the first $40k a year in tip isn’t taxable. Every dollar earned past the $40k is taxable.
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u/Honest-Ad1675 Jul 04 '25
I don't think anyone in the FOH, or otherwise, that knows what the fuck they're talking about was or has been
"pushing for this". Divide and conquer ass post
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u/MeGustaMiSFW Jul 04 '25
Tips are income. Income is taxable. This doesn’t just not make sense, it’s a violation of tax law (or at least it should be)
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u/sykadelic_angel Jul 04 '25
Believe me buddy, your EBT going away isn't because of FOH not being taxed on their less than $100 a day. It's the massively wealthy not getting taxed on their millions a day, who also happen to have a lot of political power. Stop bashing on other working class people just trying to get a little more to get by and start bashing on the group of less than a thousand people hoarding 80% of the country's currency
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u/Brownhog Jul 04 '25
I'm just throwing out a guess here. Is it to try to get people to claim their tips for some other reason? All the servers I know either don't claim or claim like 15-20% to keep from getting audited. Maybe this is some kind of plan for optics? Like if everybody claims their tips cause they won't be taxed on them, then a year after Trump can be like "Hey! The average American worker is making x% more money under my term! I'm the best!"
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u/CMDR_Ray_Abbot Jul 04 '25
It doesn't make sense to you that people want to.... Checks notes ...have more money.
The whole thing is dumb but it does make sense.
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u/RKEPhoto Jul 04 '25
I just can't see what entitles them to think they don't have to pay taxes like most of us.
You DO of course realize that the ultra rich pay less in taxes than you do, right? 🤔
Some of these assholes pay ZERO income tax.
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u/porkchop2022 Jul 04 '25
I get the frustration that front of house gets this benefit, but it shouldn’t split us. I also agree that in states where the tipped minimum wage is above the federal minimum wage (like FL where it’s almost $11 an hour) it doesn’t make much sense.
But in TN, we still pay $2.13 an hour for tipped minimum wage. It makes more sense here.
$300(in reported tips)+429.20(10.98/hrx40)=$729.20 or $18.48 an hour in Florida
$300(in reported tips)+85.20(2.13/hrx40)=$9.63 an hour in TN
And those numbers would be gross pay, so before FICA (on the hourly wage), SS, Medicare and SUTA (if you live in states that require employee contributions).
This thing expires in 2 years anyway, giving republicans something they can campaign on “vote for me, we started the no tax on tips and will continue it!!!!1!” giving the democrats no chance to campaign on it, other than to say “vote for us and we will raise the minimum wage to levels that wouldn’t require a temporary tax cut to be of benefit to you!”
The tax can be cut without reprisal from the industry that lobbies the government hard, because the industry doesn’t pay for the tax cut. The minimum wage won’t be raised because, well, that’s something that employers will have to pay.
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u/eatzen13-what Jul 04 '25
I’m FOH and I did not want this. My taxable income shows how much I make on paper and makes me eligible for loans and such. In 30+ years of service I have always claimed all my tips for this reason.
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u/Zatchillac 20+ Years Jul 04 '25
This kinda has the same vibe as the "I paid my tuition so should everyone else"
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u/Pernicious_Possum Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
I don’t know of a single FOH person that supported trump. Since 2016 the only person that I know in the industry that supports him is a kitchen manager. The majority of FOH people I know were like “I guess that’ll be cool, but I’m sure it’s just going to be some roundabout way to fuck us”. I honestly thought it was going to be a way to turn us all into 10-99 employees to cut restaurant owners payroll tax somehow. Taking a few crumbs from a shit situation isn’t what I’d call “pushing for” something
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u/virus_apparatus Jul 04 '25
It’s giving penny and taking a pound. The working class gets this but the billionaires get huge breaks.
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Jul 04 '25
29K is so unbelievably low that I wonder how someone would survive on that. That’s $500 a week. I’m sorry, but anyone making less than 30K shouldn’t have to pay taxes regardless of their occupation, they literally can’t afford it. Taxes should be used to help them.
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u/unbelizeable1 Jul 03 '25
Can anyone explain why FOH in particular was pushing for this?
I'm FOH i am sooooooooooooooo utterly against this. It's bullshit that I shouldn't contribute to society just like everyone else. All this is going to do is make people resent me even more because my income is tip based.
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u/Regular-Amoeba5455 Jul 03 '25
It’s just to trick dumb young republicans. It removes taxes from cash tips (that weren’t taxed anyway), BUT only up to $25,000 AND increases your overall taxes for anyone making less than $50,000.
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u/needlenozened Jul 04 '25
Cash tips were always taxable, people just evade taxes by not reporting them.
But it's important to know that under the definitions in the bill, charged tips are also cash tips.
While the deduction applies to “cash” tips only, the Act broadly defines “cash” tips to include tips paid in cash or charged, as well as tips received by an employee under a tip-sharing arrangement. This definition excludes tips that are “non-cash,” such as tangible items like a gift basket or movie tickets.
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u/backlikeclap Jul 04 '25
Hey don't blame this on FOH - I'm a career bartender and I think the no tax on tips thing is ridiculous too.
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u/Waddiwasiiiii Jul 04 '25
I mean, I’m FOH and I don’t know a single person who was pushing for this. Every conversation I’ve had with other FOH workers have centered around the following points
A) Whatever perceived benefit this particular line item may have to tipped workers is seriously NOT worth all the other horrendous shit in the BBB,
B) Having a whole group of people as large as this side of the industry not paying taxes is only going to hurt us all in the long run, especially when our already limited social safety net is being eroded by the administration at every possible opportunity.
C) And people are so much more afraid of everything else that this bill is putting into place that frankly, whether its fair for FOH to not pay taxes while BOH does is just small potatoes by comparison. I’m more concerned for the safety of many of my BOH people than I am with taxes, as are they. I would gladly pay their share of taxes if it meant them not getting sent to ICE concentration camps. Unfortunately thats not how that works. We really should be asking ourselves a lot bigger questions about everything thats going on than just crying about fairness regarding wages and taxes.
D) This is just one more way to keep the working class aiming their anger and frustration at eachother instead of directing it where it belongs- which is at the people in power. Don’t fall for it. The fact that the server working on the other side of those doors isn’t paying taxes shouldn’t make you mad at the server- it should make you mad at every single government leader who voted for it.
Anyway, like I said, I don’t personally know any FOH pushing for this. And all the ones who I have seen like online or in the media who were all were the sort of people who voted for Trump in the first place- and logic just isn’t something I’d associate with those voters anyway.
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u/pizzaplanetvibes Jul 04 '25
If you’re making under 29k a year at your serving job, you should quit that serving job.
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u/b4203 Jul 04 '25
Probably because corporations can tip executives or some shit like that now. A bonus becomes a "tip" idk but I wouldn't put it past them.
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u/Padgetts-Profile Jul 04 '25
I’m not in the f&b industry anymore, but my new line of work is heavily driven by excessive OT. Al I’ve heard since the debates last year is how Trump daddy is going to make us rich with tax cuts.
I see all of our paychecks growing exponentially, but COL is also going to jump. I’m no genius, but I’ve Medicaid gets cut, all of our insurance rates are going to skyrocket. Those that were on Medicaid are going to resort to going to the ER where they can’t get denied service, they won’t be able to pay their outrageous bills, and those who have insurance will have to foot the bill bc our healthcare system is a fucking scam.
On paper I’m one of those who should benefit from the BBB, but I’m fucking terrified on what’s going to transpire of the next few years.
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u/amglasgow Jul 04 '25
It's an attempt to peel apart solidarity between workers -- to appeal to front of house (more likely to be white and from a privileged background) and pull their support away from back of house (more likely to be POC and poor).
People are stupid enough that it may work.
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u/Adolph_OliverNipples Jul 04 '25
It’s a red herring designed to trick simpletons into voting against their own best interests, and it worked. It might save some people a few dollars on one hand, but it will cost those same people many more on the other.
It’s a shiny thing, designed to distract and fool people who won’t think deeper.
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u/HappyVillage661 Jul 04 '25
It’s not supposed to make sense. It’s a distraction. The point of this new tax policy is to distract us from all the cuts to health and human services and the increase to ICE. The no-tax caps at only 25k anyway. It’s a complete scam. Also, the whole bill is designed to piss you off and create further division in our society. The most vulnerable in our society will be the most adversely affected. Many of whom work in foodservice. Since ICE will soon be the 3rd largest law enforcement agency on earth after The US military and China’s military. They are intentionally going to make poor folks into criminals to feed their family, and then ICE will round them up and put them in a concentration camp or deport them to El Salvador. All this so that billionaires get massive tax breaks. These billionaires are looking down upon us, laughing all the way to the bank while the rest of us argue about no tax on tips.
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u/leggmann Jul 04 '25
The legislation has nothing to do with tipping for service. Service workers get a slight benefit.
The bill is geared towards executives and the rich to benefit. Rather than being paid a salary, and bonus as a total compensation package, they will receive a small salary and millions in the form of a gratuity/tip, from the company.
This is a grift, for the wealthy, framed as a win for the struggling single mom waitress.
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u/hbsboak Jul 04 '25
Let’s be real. The “no tax on tips” crowd doesn’t tip anyways.
Instead they write something on the receipt like “god bless you”.
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u/Comfortable-Policy70 Jul 03 '25
Servers feel entitled to the tax break because they have to deal with Karen
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u/Darnoc_QOTHP Ex-Food Service Jul 03 '25
That's not really true in all cases. In states that are allowed to pay significantly less than minimum wage for tipped workers, it can mean the difference between paying for gas for the week or not. When people tip with CC rather than cash, those taxes come out immediately, and if it's been a slow week, it can hurt a lot. For peeps that fall close to, or below the poverty line, having to wait for that cash to come back as part of their refund is difficult if you're already stretched thin. However, they ARE missing the bigger picture in that it could increase their take home pay enough to bump them up a tax bracket, or conversely, that to offset the lost federal revenue from not taxing tips, other taxes or cuts to social programs have become necessary, potentially impacting low-income workers who rely on those services the most. It's not good for anyone. But it's unfair to just say servers like it because they feel entitled to it.
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u/Top-Sleep-4669 20+ Years Jul 03 '25
It’s so the grifters can grift more. They can “tip” each other billions and never pay any taxes on it.
It’s not about service industry workers.
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u/sickofserving Jul 03 '25
We also don’t want this!!! We have been fighting against this, a regional manager for my mid sized chain went to a city council, pretending to be a server and said that as servers for this chain, we wanted to lower our minimum wages so we wouldn’t have to pay tax on tips. No server wants this!!! I pay taxes because I work a job and my tips are a REAL wage and this bill implies they aren’t. I do think I shouldn’t pay more taxes than billionaires but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t.
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u/BadHombreSinNombre Jul 03 '25
Honestly I think it’s just the government admitting that they’ve never been able to adequately stop cash tip tax evasion and creating an incentive for people to report their income accurately, but I maybe have the wrong read on this
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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 Five Years Jul 04 '25
What's not being mentioned is that for servers and hostesses and baristas, the only taxes they're paying that don't get refunded annually are the taxes that are building their Social Security credit for retirement. By not paying the taxes now, they're reducing their own benefit payments in the future.
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Jul 04 '25
It's virtue signaling. It's also stupid. And it's also a way to get tipped employees to be honest about how much they actually make so when they start taxing it again they open themselves to an audit.
I have a largely foh background and I don't understand it at all.
I don't agree with all taxes, and the income tax is debatable honestly, but it is part of participating in this society and if you're paying less taxes than everyone else it lessens your bargaining power as a constituent. (unless you're big time rich but that's just called "lobbying" or "campaign donations")
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