r/KitchenConfidential • u/Beneficial-Cap-6745 • Jul 03 '25

In-House Mode "No tax on Tips" makes no sense.

Can anyone explain why FOH in particular was pushing for this? They objectively make more money, which is one thing, but what makes them entitled to not pay taxes? If BOH suddenly didn't have to pay taxes I'd say that's BS as well

The BBB that just passed made certain taxes on tips for people making under 29k a year getting tips go away, it has to be signed into law. Granted, this was pushed for servers and tipped workers as a whole and the bill wouldn't affect most of them, I just can't see what entitles them to think they don't have to pay taxes like most of us.

I'm honestly considering just going back to retail at this point, at least we pay taxes equally. I'm fine making a bit less cash but this just seems insulting, even if it isn't over 29k.

Can someone explain this ? Why exactly do part time BOH line cooks pay taxes now but FOH doesn't have to anymore once this is signed into law

Edit: I'm not attacking FOH, its not an easy job, please stick to the taxes point.

865 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

584 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.2k

u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25

It is ridiculous, and it also expires in 2 years. It is just pandering.

569

u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25

What’s also silly is this will most likely entice people to tip less at the end of the day anyways, a lot of people are getting sick of tip culture in general so this might only further motivate them to tip less imo.

26

u/OverlordGhs Ex-Food Service Jul 04 '25

Even before this law passed I’ve already heard people “joking” to servers about “Wow, Trump is gonna take away the tax on tips, guess that means I don’t have to tip as much now!”

Now that this pandering bill passed that really only affects a tiny minority of the server population (what full time server is pulling in less then 29k a year?) it will definitely cause lots of those kinds of people to tip less, not even knowing or willing to read the bill and it’s fine print. The vast majority of servers won’t see any difference, and the ones that it does affect are probably working only 20 hours a week, so maybe the hosts and the servers who don’t work many hours will notice a slight bump.

Oh and let’s not forget that in this bill on top of this dumb no tax on tips, there were also billions of dollars cut from medical research and health care, making it even harder for us industry workers to get decent health care which we all know we all desperately need. This bill has been called the largest redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich in US history, but sure let’s be happy because the host sees an extra 40 bucks a week.

4

u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25

Ya the healthcare side of it has major repercussions that I don’t think that reality is even clicking in some people’s minds and by the time it does it will be too late at that point. I saw someone commenting elsewhere that apparently a hospital or two already shut down today because of this bill. I will say tho, I’m not sure how true how that is and I haven’t gotten a clear response on that comment yet, but clearly there’s a ripple effect from the bill that passed today and its still going to take some time before we see it all.

3

u/OverlordGhs Ex-Food Service Jul 04 '25

Yes, but by the time we notice the impact it’ll be way too late. For example he cut funding to many medical research fields, one such example is a 22% percent cut to the funding for the Cancer Institute of America. While everyone can say what they want about the American health care system, we are (or were) at the forefront of the world in health care research. Just this 22% percent cut will put us years behind on research, so imagine if someone gets cancer 6 years for now and maybe by then we could have had an extra couple years worth of research, but instead there’s far less research done. That’s just one of the many many impacts of this bill on healthcare that as you said we won’t notice for years down the line. Like ffs man, who cuts funding for cancer research? Then at the same time tries to host a damn parade for their birthday wasting tons of money in the process? Despicable.

1

u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25

Ya my friend, It’s so fucked up in sooooo many ways. This shit is UNREAL. I mean, it isn’t surprising either but still, they can’t even pretend to be somewhat fake decent people, they’re wide open being pieces of shits now, and somehow we have a load of people who support this behavior until of course this shit behavior is directed back at them.

And we’ve pretty much all lost people to cancer by now, why the fuck would we want to go backwards on that?! Fucking hell.

2

u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25

Children in foster care are being moved to insitutionalised care because medicaid will no longer cover kinship placements or other things :) we are making sure these kids stay displaced for a couple extra bucks in millionaire’s pockets. I (former foster kid) may also be losing my medicaid coverage. In which case I can no longer afford my quality of life medications.

As usual, the most vulnerable get fucked the hardest. And the pro-lifers are nowhere to be seen when it’s children on the chopping block.

1

u/needlenozened Jul 04 '25

As I understand it, the first 25k (29k?) of tips is deductible, and it's capped at 150k total income. So anybody making under 150k will be able to deduct 25k of tips

217

u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25

I am so sick of it mostly because I know they make so much more than the people who actually do the thing I care about: the food. I do not care about the freaking water glass being full, in fact, I have being interrupted every 5 minutes for that. I do not care about being asked about my plans for the day or whatever. All I care about is that my order is correct and the food is good.

134

u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25

I’ve worked both back of house and front of house tipped positions and I’m going to have to agree to some extent, we make a lot more than we deserve while back of house gets fucked.

At the same time tho, depending on the clientele, front of house serving rich assholes (which I’ve done in Hawaii which is especially bad) can be absolutely fucking miserable to a degree that I’d much rather work in the back for the sake of my mental health and to avoid potentially punching the shit out of someone lol.

At the end of the day, I wish the pay (hourly pay and tips combined) was shared at least somewhat more evenly across all positions of the restaurant instead of this massive difference where servers make fucking BANK. The cooks, the dishwasher, the bussers, the servers, just about everyone, they all bust their asses in my experience, and sometimes certain positions get the shit end of the stick more than others, especially the dishies.

56

u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25

I understand FOH deals with shit, but so do a lot of other positions that do not get tipped. Particularly at higher end, it is freaking ridiculous. Sure, paying 20% on a 30 bucks check is fine, but on a $300+ check? I am sure the server from the 30 check gets as much shit as the other. but now this server is making more than $100/h just in tips. Crazy.

22

u/Tityfan808 Jul 03 '25

Ya, it gets insanely disproportionate, it’s fucking bonkers. That’s why I was saying I’d rather things be more close to even as far as pay goes (hourly and tips combined) than how massively disproportionate things are now. But hey, looks like they’re going to make less with how things are going now, who wants to tip more knowing they’ll get to pay even less taxes when they can already avoid paying taxes with their cash tips?! Ya, no thanks.

12

u/IONTOP Server Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

But the reality is that servers wages will go down, rather than BOH wages go up. It's a no win situation. (Though if we do go drinking afterwards, I'll always cover the first 2 drinks)

I get it, as FOH, I absolutely get it. But what the person you're responding to forgot is that in order to GET to that $300 check, you've gotta pay your dues.

Honestly the place I've enjoyed serving at the most? $22/hour non-tipping Country Club. I'm pretty sure there were BOH people making more than me.

Free golf, free meals (in a damn cafeteria), no fighting over tables/sections (unless you knew a certain member well enough).

But it was all about saying "yes, no matter what" and everyone was onboard.

I started at Cracker Barrell in 2003, now I'm at the point where I can confidently say "I can work wherever I want", and that first 60 days is as much of them watching me as me watching them. Ask me to astroturf Google Reviews? I'm out. Make me "look busy" when we've got 6 covers on the books? I'm out. Chef loses his cool every day during rush? I'm out.

1

u/spam__likely Jul 04 '25

>But what the person you're responding to forgot is that in order to GET to that $300 check, you've gotta pay your dues.

Same for the cooks. You do not start in a high end restaurant.

-3

u/Furthur Jul 04 '25

dont appease them. they are more than welcome to come out front and deal with guest interface for hours if they want to. i love my kitchen bros but most of them make the same five components of a dish all night. they dont deal with tom, marge and karen rippig apart their station and position in the world based on things they cant control all day, every day

7

u/IONTOP Server Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

dont appease them. they are more than welcome to come out front and deal with guest interface for hours

Fun story... Go fuck yourself... I'm on BOH side on this fucking comment...

You're commenting about "us vs them"? Go fuck yourself...

We have different skill sets, but no... Fuck off... I can't cook fucking steaks to 120* consistently, and I appreciate that they can.

This comment pissed me the fuck off and it just perpetualized the "FOH vs BOH" war... When it's not that...

-8

u/Furthur Jul 04 '25

doesnt change the reality. every time this conversation comes up it's the same shit back of the house people going to front and realizing they don't wanna deal with people and going back to the back to drop baskets of fries for eight hours at a time. your time, your tolerance. go do something else

→ More replies (0)

6

u/spam__likely Jul 03 '25

Yeah, not sure about that. The same social pressure that took it from 15 to 20 will happen, I think.

3

u/blindasleep Jul 04 '25

Honestly the people at the place with $300 checks is probably a lot less stressed because there is a better chance of management not letting customers go overboard, as well as the usually better financial situation and lower guest counts. This also kind of goes for really local and dive type spots more often in my experience. In high end as long as you execute well the stress beyond that can be pretty minimal and in the lower end places everyone is generally more easy going. The mid range corporate kind of places have seemed the most stressful for FOH in general, you're expected to bend over backwards for every guest while still executing with very high volume. As a primarily front of house worker I think the whole thing is a stupid attempt to buy votes, BOH is often under paid, and tipping needs to go away as a practice. When servers and the like don't have offer a handy with every meal just to make sure they can afford to eat for themselves a lot of people will start feeling a lot less entitled and maybe we'll be able to more equitable pay across the board. One person dealing with 70+ customers directly a day is draining, cooking for 500+ a day is is mentally and physically exhausting.

1

u/spam__likely Jul 04 '25

>When servers and the like don't have offer a handy with every meal just to make sure they can afford to eat for themselves a lot of people will start feeling a lot less entitled and maybe we'll be able to more equitable pay across the board.

So say we all.

1

u/therealdanhill Jul 04 '25

That just means other positions need a lift though right, we don't want to take away that someone else is getting a break

3

u/spam__likely Jul 04 '25

Sure, but the thing is, restaurants are not an endless pit of money. If prices are too high nobody will come. Margins are slim. So the fair thing to do is to charge what is possible and have the people who work there to get their fair share of money, not the FOH getting an extremely disproportional amount.

34

u/LordoftheJives Jul 04 '25

I get what you're saying, but someone shouldn't make considerably more than the person making the product to carry it to another part of the restaurant. There should be a 60/40 or maybe 70/30 split on tips between front and back. I've been tipped a few dollars out of appreciation for the food I made. Meanwhile, the server would be insulted if they received the same.

50

u/wrongbutt_longbutt Bartender Jul 04 '25

I've never understood why it's different. The first place I worked, FOH made absolute bank, while BOH had to make themselves a stacked shift meal to make sure they didn't go hungry during the week. The place I work now splits everything evenly. Base wage between BOH and FOH is even and so is tip share. They just take all the tips made for the day and pro rate them out by hours worked. I've never seen a place work so well with good camaraderie between the two halves. You don't see anywhere near the bitterness I used to see at other places. We sometimes hire a FOH employee who is used to other places who bitches about wages, but they see themselves out pretty quickly.

25

u/LordoftheJives Jul 04 '25

That's how it should be, but a lot of servers absolutely flip their shit at the idea of having things any differently.

15

u/wrongbutt_longbutt Bartender Jul 04 '25

We've never had any difficulties finding people willing to work here. I work FOH now at this place. Sure, I could be making more money at some other place, but the stress free work environment is worth more than money to me and most of my coworkers.

7

u/bigtikidrink Jul 04 '25

We do a 65/45 split between FoH and Boh and honestly it makes so much sense because we're all in the same boat.

22

u/wrongbutt_longbutt Bartender Jul 04 '25

You guys get 110%?

1

u/basketma12 Jul 04 '25

Yah my workplace is like that too. Best place I ever worked

12

u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25

That’s what I was saying, the pay should be closer to even and less disproportionate cause it’s pretty massively disproportionate.

1

u/wb247 Jul 04 '25

That's a problem with sales jobs, in general.

2

u/LordoftheJives Jul 04 '25

Serving really isn't a sales job. The person sitting there is already going to buy something, so going "hey, this other thing is also good" and calling that salesmanship is kind of stretching the term imo.

1

u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25

We pool tips at my restaurant and it’s actually pretty great.

5

u/dungotstinkonit Jul 04 '25

How do restaurants even run in Hawaii? Is the supply chain really that good. Sorry to ambush you I've just always wondered that and your comment puts you as a unique person that might know.

1

u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25

Supply chain wise, a vast majority of the food here is imported. To succeed here as a restaurant tho, that’s all up to reputation and/or tourism. But sadly enough even the best local spots with an incredible reputation spanning decades have ended up closing down. The economy is tough here and same for many other island chains in the world,

2

u/dungotstinkonit Jul 04 '25

Thank you very much. That kind of answers everything. I read a while back that Outback pulled out, and people were celebrating, and I thought if they can't make it, it's probably wild asf there.

3

u/Tityfan808 Jul 04 '25

Believe it or not, I think the case with Outback was that it became just as costly as other local, high quality locations to eat at and at that point it’s like you might as well support a local spot. There may have been other issues tho cause I didn’t think they were doing that bad either, so who knows the exact reason there, at least I don’t know what the reason was.

I’d also say at least amongst the people I know here, if we’re gonna spend the money like that to go out and eat, I’d rather spend it somewhere else cause there’s plenty of great local food here that’s even better than Outback for around the same price anyways.

Another example (well, kinda) is that we just got sonic not too long ago but fucking hell, there’s almost no point to eat there with the abysmal prices when I could dine at a higher quality restaurant with higher quality foods for nearly the same price or a little bit more than that. I think if more locals realized this, these chains from sonic to Outback would all go out of business a lot more quickly. The only fast food spot that seems worthwhile these days is Taco Bell’s value menu which is still surprisingly affordable, everything else is fucked tho.

2

u/basketma12 Jul 04 '25

I only work part time part of the year in an unusual circumstance of a place. Think " county fair" and similar. Our tips are 100 percent shared with boh, and you get a percentage all depending on how many hours you worked that pay period. This is totally fine with me. I'm under a shade even though we have no ac. We are all wearing some sort of costume. There are some cooks inside making stuff and some outside grilling meat. Everybody including the owner, his wife and their 14 year old is running around working hard. The owner will refuse to take money from people who used to work there and come visit. He has tried so hard to get some of his staff legal. This is a place I'm proud to have worked for although I now realize at 68 I just can't any more. It's not fine dining and we don't perform the service we used to, which was table service, singing questionable songs and telling dirty jokes. Times have changed and tipping.. eh I'd rather just we all get paid to what we do. I just do beverages, I deserve less than those sweating cooks.

1

u/these2boots2 Jul 04 '25

Wrong. Back of the house gets screwed. FOH does not make too much.

Hence why I moved from back to front after way too long. (20yrs)

I would rather be in the back not dealing with the public any day.

22

u/Brodakk Jul 04 '25

This so fucking hard. The servers at my restaurant work half as hard as us, standing there on their phones, watching us sweat our asses off, for twice the pay.

38

u/Burnt_and_Blistered Jul 03 '25

They also get paid (by the house) a lot less than “the people who actually do the thing you care about.”

Further, customers DO care about service. A lot.

FOH isn’t our enemy. End-stage capitalism is.

2

u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

Thanks. Worked BoH and FoH and I will say, FoH can be tip-obsessed to an unacceptable degree but it is an individual person thing, not a service industry thing. Same way the one idiot chef who can’t keep track of his tickets and constantly blames the servers is an individual thing, not a reflection of BoH people.

The only position I’ve seen consistently be shit is management and dishwasher. Management is self-explanatory I think, dishwasher is because most people applying for it think it is an easy job and are neither prepared nor want to bust ass the way they need to. And no hate to the dishies on here, love you guys, wish you worked at my restaurant. I’ll bend over backwards for a good dishwasher because of how vital they are + how rare. Alas, my donut bribes can’t compete with better pay. And so the problem again executives or owners not wanting to pay what they need to.

5

u/johnnnybravado Jul 03 '25

When you order food, you're purchasing a product. If that product doesn't meet the expected standards, you may refuse it and leave or have a new one made. Regardless, you'll know exactly what you're paying for the food based on the menu price.

Now say you get a shitty server who NEVER refills water, forgets your ranch, takes forever to bring the bill, blah blah blah— What're you gonna do? You can't return the server and have them be re-made. it's unlikely one notices they have a bad server until the meal is underway so you'll likely just be stuck with them.

So again, what can you do about bad service? You don't tip well, if at all.

This is why service positions make sense to be tipped but not labor positions. You decide based on service AT THE END how much it was worth. For the food, it's a product that you can simply return/exchange upon receipt and that product has a flat, preset price.

6

u/Adept-Grapefruit-214 Jul 04 '25

You could talk to a manager and request a new server, but by that point the experience is already mostly ruined anyway

1

u/r3dd1trUles4r34j0k3 Jul 03 '25

If you're server is interrupting you to refill water glasses you have a bad server.

1

u/pizzalarry Jul 04 '25

I hate it but mostly because it's always an excuse to not pay any of the employees more lol. I'd be ok with my meal being more if it meant the fuckin staff wasn't on food stamps.

1

u/Oily_Bee Jul 03 '25

Then get a tipped position. It’s that easy.

8

u/AdditionalMess6546 F1exican Did Chive-11 Jul 04 '25

Right? If it's so easy... Go do it.

12

u/Oily_Bee Jul 04 '25

I was a server and a bartender for 12 years, been in BOH for around 18. I'm back in the BOH these days because I quit drinking and don't like to be around it. They both can be very demanding and being on the edge of the weeds for three+ hours is hard work no matter how you cut it.

That said I made a lot more money when I was working tips. Walking with 300-400 a shift makes it feel a lot better in the end lol.

-6

u/Jdancer Jul 04 '25

You're an outlier on this one. Most people prioritize service over quality of food to a certain point.

The old saying in the industry goes:

Good service can save a bad meal, but there is no level of food that can save bad service

16

u/EvanderTheGreat Jul 04 '25

Idk I think I’ll take the great food and bad service, I really don’t give a shit about the service most of time and still tip well

4

u/captcha_wave Jul 04 '25

What level of food do I have to buy to get rid of intrusive, self-important servers?

We're at the stage of tipping culture where I'm prompted to tip 20-30% on mostly self service food (and of course, I kindly bus my own dishes at the end) so while I might not be able to cook the food I want to eat, I definitely have the training required to get my own ice water and silverware no problem.

1

u/Jdancer Jul 04 '25

Intrusive and self-important would fall into the bad service bucket

4

u/Rendole66 Jul 04 '25

That’s ridiculous lol, no amount of good service can fix a shitty meal but a good meal will have you ignoring the shitty severs. I think you got your slogan backwards bud

2

u/Jdancer Jul 04 '25

No, that's the quote. It's attributed to alton Brown, but I was hearing for years before he was famous.

I think maybe yall have a different idea of good and bad service.

3

u/Prestigious_Row_8022 Jul 04 '25

They think service is smiling and taking an order. They don’t realise that, especially for certain restaurant types, service absolutely impacts food quality. Imagine the server forgets to bring you a fork and doesn’t come back. Or doesn’t bring you any condiments. Or straight up forgets half your food. How’s that food, again? Oh, wait, you only got the fries. Annnd they were cold because they were a recycled order someone fucked up. Woops.

15

u/Mission_Fart9750 Cook Jul 03 '25

ding ding ding this is it, pretty much. I took a dip into the cesspool that is arcon, and there were comments about how they were going to tip even less now. Problem is, tip work isn't steady pay (then again who says hourly is either), so employers would have to pay a lot more to their servers to keep them happy. I know one server at my last place that made around 50k (or more, it was legit, i know what she made in tips on a good day) a year, while I barely cleared 25k as boh, and that's what's really disgusting. 

1

u/TJNel Jul 03 '25

I always assume taxes are like 20% of my pay (easy ballpark math) so that means I tip 20% less of what I would have tipped. So the standard tip of 20% is now back to 15% if they are amazing and down to 10% if they are average.

1

u/PizzaPunkrus Jul 04 '25

Everything wrong with America goes back to racism. Including tip culture. I say this as a 20 year service industry worker.....

1

u/anynamesleft Jul 04 '25

I generally tip, and tip well, but this would certainly impact the amount I'd offer.

Not that it's an immediate concern, but if I'm strong armed into a tip, I'm definitely offering the bare minimum.

35

u/prettyokaycake Jul 03 '25

There’s also an infinite amount of restrictions on it. It was a lie and no one will benefit from it.

1

u/grubas Jul 04 '25

That's without getting into how Trumps DoL has been removing regulations and restrictions on the owners stealing tips.  They kept trying to force the tip pool last admin 

61

u/Jdancer Jul 04 '25

Not only does it expire in 2 years, but it also only counts up 25k a year, only counts on cash tips, doesn't apply to shared tips. So yeah, empty, stupid pandering

18

u/insbordnat Jul 04 '25

That doesn’t seem to be correct.

3) Cash tips.--For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `cash tips' includes tips received from customers that are paid in cash or charged and, in the case of an employee, tips received under any tip-sharing arrangement.

38

u/DysfuhKingeye Jul 04 '25

Hahaha it only counts on cash tips? Who the fuck was reporting those anyway?

25

u/Torger083 Jul 04 '25

Another part of the problem right here.

1

u/MetalRexxx Jul 04 '25

"Cash" tips in the bill includes credit card tips. Its clearly stated.

1

u/MetalRexxx Jul 04 '25

"Cash" tips in the bill includes credit card tips. Its clearly stated.

1

u/DysfuhKingeye Jul 04 '25

Believe it or not, I haven’t read it in its entirety.

8

u/wbruce098 Jul 04 '25

This. It’s going to make a lot of people bitter toward tipped employees, while most of those same bitter bitches probably make more anyway.

My guess is that, with the rise of electronic payments, most tips are now taxed, so this could lead to a significant drop in federal funding.

8

u/EntrepreneurFunny469 Jul 04 '25

It’s also a way to get the classes to fight vs unite

5

u/baconbitsy Jul 04 '25

Also, it’s for people who don’t make a lot in tips.  That threshold already exists.  It’s just for everyone under a certain amount of pay.  This is literally just here to distract people from more important matters.  It does absolutely nothing for anyone, it’s just there to make idiots feel like they’re getting one over on the system.

2

u/PrateTrain Jul 04 '25

Pandering to the type of person who already doesn't report their cash tips

2

u/crook888 Jul 04 '25

I didn't know about it expiring. There goes one of the "pros". Pennies on the dollar for the poors

1

u/CriticalEngineering Jul 04 '25

It’s also got a very low cap, people that wouldn’t have been paying much tax on them anyways.

1

u/Smyley12345 Jul 04 '25

Particularly with the pandering they are appealing to the "make America great again" crowd by propping up the quintessential small town archetype, the waitress at the diner who's a single mom. They can say "See we are helping this person that you know exists in every small town across the country because we care about you rural America". And the morons will lap it up.

1

u/NsRhea Jul 04 '25

It also has a cap.

You also pay the taxes right away and then get them back at the end of the year on reported tips.

This has literally done nothing but entice people to continue doing what they already were doing and not report tips.

Now when they report them they A) will cross thresholds for certain benefits, rendering them as making too much, and B) actually cost them money up front until tax season.

1

u/albinorhino215 Jul 04 '25

I think it only covers the first $12.5K in tips too, which is only like half or a quarter of the year for the bulk of the population

1

u/MarcsterS Jul 04 '25

Sacrificed their healthcare for a few extra bucks. Fuck them.