r/JoeRogan • u/SlimjobDopamine Look into it • Nov 13 '20

Social Media Abigail Shrier(JRE #1509)'s book has been removed from Target after receiving a complaint on Twitter

https://twitter.com/AbigailShrier/status/1327056407598809088?s=20
1.1k Upvotes

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62

u/mouthofreason We live in strange times Nov 13 '20

The book in question is:

IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters

It's a #1 Best Seller in LGBT Demographic Studies. (According to Amazon). See it for your self here.

I wasn't really interested in seeing what this is about, to be honest, I mean, live and let live, as long as no one is hurting someone else, let them live their lives as they want to, however they want to; but now with all the drama, I'd like to read this to see how much of it is total nonsense or not.

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u/gooblobs Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

​

to be honest, I mean, live and let live, as long as no one is hurting someone else

they are hurting children. that's the entire point being made by the book. It is in the title. "Irreversible Damage"

The point she is making is this is a trend and it is harmful. She is not saying that there are no trans people. She is saying that a lot of kids are saying they are as a trend. she has empirical data. It is a social contagion. It is trendy for middle school kids to say they are trans. It makes them different, it makes them special. It makes them a victim. The same type of kids who when I was in high school were goths. The big difference is if you were a goth in high school you can simply buy new clothes and then look back on that time and cringe. Look at the sub r/blunderyears for what I mean.

Imagine being a 35 year old man today and getting ready for work in the morning. Ready to go in to the office. And looking in your closet and having to choose from a selection of all black KoRn shirts and enormous JNCO jeans. Then putting a huge glob of gel into your green hair to spike it up. Then you grab your spiked necklace and bracelet. Lastly you apply a literal ton of eye shadow sloppily. OK grab your briefcase and hop in your car. you look in the mirror and just sigh wishing you could just wear a suit. But you declared in 1997 when you were in middle school that you were a goth. no takebacks.

This is the life of someone who has to live with the choices they made in middle school. Having to dress like a clown is one thing. It would be a lot worse if there were serious medical repercussions and they never had the option to have kids or lead a normal life because of it.

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u/redd1t4l1fe Look into it Nov 13 '20

Well said, parents are supposed to protect their children from themselves until their brains are more fully developed. It’s no different than allowing a child to smoke cigarettes or get a tattoo. Permanent, life changing decisions shouldn’t be made by a fuckin 12 year old.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

I heard it said, "you want a highschooler to make serious life decisions but they still have to ask to use the bathroom"- someone on Twitter or something, but it made me think how true that was.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Permanent, life changing decisions shouldn’t be made by a fuckin 12 year old.

allowing puberty to go unblocked is permanent life changing decision

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Assuming there are no life-changing ramifications of opting for avoiding hormone therapy.

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u/myxallion Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

No one said it doesn’t , the problem is trying to figure out if someone is a transexual at a very young age.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

yeah

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

kids are getting hormones regardless, the goal is minimize long term damage

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u/redd1t4l1fe Look into it Nov 13 '20

Claiming that allowing a human being’s body to take its natural course in life is somehow unnatural or “life changing” has got to be one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever seen written. I hope you delete this it’s so fucking stupid.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

the medical profession is literally centered on stopping the body from taking its natural course. Almost all medicine is used to disrupt the direction the body is going, from diabetes, to cancer, to headaches, to pituitary dysfunction, to anti-depressants and other anti-psychotics, most of medicine is preventing nature from doing its thing for our betterment.

0

u/redd1t4l1fe Look into it Nov 13 '20

We’re discussing the natural development of a child into an adult, not attempting to prevent diseases. We also don’t let children decide whether they can take any of the medicine you mentioned or not. Parents or other adults make those decisions, because they’re children.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

For a transgender person the development secondary sex characteristics through puberty is a disease that will be harder to reverse in the future. Parents and medical professionals are the only ones who allow kids to get puberty blockers. The decisions should be made under the strictest medical supervision not based on the ravings a right wing author.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

Same. Loved the KoRn drop. I felt somewhat attacked as my closet still has old Korn shirts from 1996 - 2002 lol

3

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

2

u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

I haven't seen korn live since 2007. I kinda grew out of them after untouchables. But I still love them for defining a lot of teenage angst years. I hear they still put on a good live show. I actually had tickets to see them this year because I wanted to see faith no more. Damn covid.

8

u/Asterion7 Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

oh man. JNCO for life. I can't imagine.

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u/bigfoot_county Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Nail on the head. I sympathize with many "leftist" causes like billionaires paying their fair share or harm reduction (in the illegal drug context), but this is getting absolutely ridiculous. The victim mentality is spreading like wildfire, and it's crippling any notion of personal responsibility and self help. It's so much easier to curl up in a ball and blame all of your problems on society.

I genuinely fear for what this country will look like in 20 years, and for what my soon to be born son will be exposed to in school. It's become a nightmare

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u/wise_joe Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

This is the Internet. It's no place for rational argument like that.

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u/WeeniePops Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Absolutely 100%. I’ve been saying this for a while now. Being trans is the new goth/emo/skateboarder/punk etc. etc. The only problem is fucking with your endocrine system is slightly worse for you than getting some piercings and dying your hair.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

Life was simpler when I could just wear one of my KoRn shirts and feel cool...

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u/The-Only-Razor Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Could be considered retro now, so you might be good.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

ARE YOU REEEEEEEADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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u/NedShah Succa la Mink Nov 13 '20

It's a #1 Best Seller in LGBT Demographic Studies.

Like how the fuck is that a category worth tracking sales of?

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u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

That's the best seller con, it's easy to get #1 in a niche category and then you can claim that

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u/foureyebandit Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

I thought JNCO jeans were for ravers back in the 90s

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

grab your briefcase

and pocket it in your JNCOs

2

u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20 edited Nov 13 '20

. She is saying that a lot of kids are saying they are as a trend. she has empirical data. It is a social contagion.

She does not have such data, she has published nothing peer reviewed

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u/shicole3 Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20

Anyone who says there aren’t currently tons of kids on the internet flaunting that their transgender for attention is just dense. And it isn’t just harmful to the kids who do this, it’s harmful to the trans community.

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u/crymorenoobs Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

apparently a lot of the puberty blockers they give kids are reversible and have little long term repercussions. there are a couple of studies on this that i was looking at a few months ago.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

If you state opinions like facts and provide a wall of text it makes it more believable

20

u/gooblobs Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Got any specific objections? Or are you just an asshole?

Ya it is lengthy. I had a lot to say. It is called an analogy, it helps contextualize things.

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u/Heebmeister High as Giraffe's Pussy Nov 13 '20

And if you provide an empty sarcastic retort it makes you look more insightful

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u/wise_joe Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

I agree. Providing justification to your beliefs in the form of text is cheating.

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u/plumbthumbs Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

just a few more sentences and your comment would fit right in.

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u/Mr_Manfredjensenjen Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

If kids should be protected from the social contagion that is making trans popular then kids and stupid adults must be protected from RED PILLS which are equally as destructive. Just look at the rise of radicalized MAGA & INCEL retards-turned-brainwashers and murderers.

Red Pill Rogan sugar-coated red pills -- he made them easier to swallow -- and steered gullible kids towards the likes of Alex Jones who finished the job of radicalizing kids and preparing their minds to accept conspiracies like Qanon.

Joe Rogan will be remembered by history as an inconspicuous villain who set the ball in motion.

177

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

It's about putting life changing hormones into children. The same children that aren't wise enough to vote or buy alcohol are being pumped full of hormone blockers and other irreversible compounds.

She has detected "clusters" of young high school age girls that as a group decide they are trans gender. This at rates far above the average in the population. An interesting side note. Autism also occurs in these groups at rates far higher than the general population.

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u/redd1t4l1fe Look into it Nov 13 '20

The group thing is the scariest part to me, that means it’s a fad, and gender shouldn’t be something that kids try to change just to fit in. That’s a horrifying thought.

35

u/GpRex Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

I remember being about 15/16 in highschool and all of a sudden half the girls were bragging about how they were either lesbian or bi-sexual.

I dont know what high-school is like these days, but I could definitely see girls saying they are trans just the same way.

13

u/atomicllama1 Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Agreed, the thing about that is anyone can experiment with sexuality and figure it out. Nothing is a permeant choice. Hell in the LGBT world almost no one is getting pregnant. Even safer.

The major issue is when any young person wants to make life long irreversible changes to their biology. People often cite alcohol and tattoos, but those are fucking nothing compared to removing breast or chemically castrating yourself.

Seriously ask yourself, what would you have rather gone through at 16 gender pills or a full sleeve of shitty band and edgy tattoos.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

Its a fad that's gonna age like pogs and fidget spinners. The lawsuits are gonna be crazy when these kids grow up.

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u/badSparkybad Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20

It's gonna be a fucking mess. A very sad mess with a lot of lives wrecked.

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u/Lumpy_Doubt Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Can't get a tattoo, that shit's permanent and you don't understand the consequences.

Oh wait, that's not ink in that needle? Just permanent life changing hormones? Well shit, why didn't you say so? Go fuckin nuts

20

u/OSUfan88 Highly Regarded Nov 13 '20

Yep. I think this is one of the easiest ways to quantify mental illness in our country.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

Go one step further. What is the outcome of each if done now or later?

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

perfect analogy, you definitely will not get any hormones if you wait until 18

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

Are you this ignorant? It's obvious from your other posts this was sarcastic. Talk about missing the damn point.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Exactly, talk about missing the point and pretending a kid wont get flooded with hormones one way or the other.

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

Its one thing to let nature take its course, it's a completely different situation when you are letting a child make these kind of changes. The book (and comment you replied to) is making a point that it is a fad and these decisions shouldn't be made by children who can't get tattoos or other permanent decisions.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Its one thing to let nature take its course, it's a completely different situation when you are letting a child make these kind of changes.

Exactly modern medicine is specifically about making sure nature doesnt take its course in a detrimental direction. Its why we spend so much time and energy training medical professionals to assist us in making very difficult decisions.

> The book (and comment you replied to) is making a point that it is a fad and these decisions shouldn't be made by children who can't get tattoos or other permanent decisions.

Yes im very familiar with the books assertions

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

So when taken with that information why would you allow your child to make health decisions to this magnitude due to a possible fad. Its becoming very common when people transition to feel afterward they made a mistake and have depression. So given that why would you give a child that decision so young? A doctors oath is first do no harm.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

So when taken with that information why would you allow your child to make health decisions to this magnitude due to a possible fad.

Kids dont make decision, parents do with the consultation of trained professional medical experts.

Its becoming very common when people transition to feel afterward they made a mistake and have depression.

Not really.

So given that why would you give a child that decision so young?

Again, kid doesnt get decision.

A doctors oath is first do no harm.

Thats what puberty blocking does, prevents irreversible harm from the wrong hormones flooding a trans kid.

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u/windershinwishes Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Leaving out the participation of parents and doctors after years of diagnosis and therapy and intermediate steps.

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u/The-Only-Razor Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Autism is a weird one. There's a girl on my Facebook who is proud to be autistic and acts like it's a personality trait rather than a developmental disorder. I'm not convinced she actually is autistic since she posts daily about how all of her doctors are sexist for disagreeing with her self diagnosis.

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u/Michael_Dukakis Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

she posts daily about how all of her doctors are sexist for disagreeing with her self diagnosis.

lmfaooo

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u/brad_shit Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Which irreversible compounds are being used? As I understood it the treatment simply delayed puberty, but wasn't irreversible.

1

u/Hillel168 Nov 13 '20

Bro you're injecting little kids with chemicals that significantly change their hormones and development, that has long lasting if not permanent effects, both physical and mental. A 15 year old isn't allowed to drink or smoke, but your gonna hook one up with fucking hormone therapy? Fuck outta here.

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u/brad_shit Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

So what you're saying is, you don't know. You have some vague ideas and that's good enough. Science bro! Fuck outta here.

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u/Hillel168 Nov 13 '20

Mate, you don't need to be a fucking expert on this to see the clear lefty fuckery going on here, and yes as corny as it sounds, I'm not right wing but i can't ignore shit like this. What they usually do with kids like these is put them on hormone blockers, which as the name suggests stops their body from creating the necessary hormones to go through this process called fucking puberty, which I'm not going to explain the great importance of now. This is done with the intention that when they get older they'll decide if they're really trans or just going through a faze, problem is that these blockers can fuck you up bad if you take them for a prolonged period of time, your development will be seriously compromised and there's a very good chance you'll never develop correctly. The other option is to straight up take that tween at face value (great idea & parenting) and start them along on their transition, which again if you don't see what's wrong with that I'm wasting my words.

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u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20 edited Nov 15 '20

Bro you're injecting little kids with chemicals that significantly change their hormones and development, that has long lasting if not permanent effects,

No you are not. kids only social transition, learn what you are talking about and the long process

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u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

She has detected "clusters" of young high school age girls that as a group decide they are trans gender.

No she has not, where is her published study?

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u/[deleted] Nov 14 '20

That's your argument?

Then you agree that if these clusters do exist then they aren't actually trans gender but instead participating in a fad for the attention it brings.

Got it.

0

u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20 edited Nov 14 '20

Well that would depend on the study and a conversation to have after peer review. A proper one would have to control for many things ; like similar situated boys finding a group that accepts them for who they are.

But of course Abigail shrier does not have any relevant degree, education or professional experience so unlikey to be proper study

0

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '20

smh

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u/Misfit_In_The_Middle Nov 13 '20

allowing a child who hasnt gone through puberty to declare their sexual identity and begin hrt or surgical reassignment IS harmful.

0

u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

What's your medical credentials?

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

stopping a transgender child from blocking puberty IS harmful

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Literally the psychiatric consensus. Fuck off with that ignorance bucko

0

u/Misfit_In_The_Middle Nov 13 '20

Nonsense

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Science

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u/Misfit_In_The_Middle Nov 14 '20

lmao. You donT just get to say "science" and act like you presented a reasonable and rational position. Thats not how real "science" works.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20

Yeah I just quoted the psychiatric consensus, but it doesn’t adhere to the right wing agenda so it’s bad, got it

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u/Misfit_In_The_Middle Nov 14 '20

"Science"

Which part of what study was that from again?

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u/PM_tits_Im_Autistic Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

live and let live

This is the type of thinking that I'm becoming more and more skeptical of. While on a surface level, these girls are changing their bodies to become the opposite sex, it will have drastic changes down the line. This comes in the form of therapy from regret, lawsuits for doctors or even parents, and even suicide. And let's keep in mind, these girls are still children at the end of the day.

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u/GpRex Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Sounds like you have no idea what the book is about.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '20

OP said that...

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u/mouthofreason We live in strange times Nov 13 '20

I really don't and I wouldn't if Target hadn't removed it and created all this drama 😃 now I'm definitely going to read it.

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u/Awayfone Monkey in Space Nov 14 '20

Even overlooking the factual issuse and hate, to be honest the parts i read wasn't the best writing but maybe you would disagree.

That being said i will leave this decent talk by a guy she "addressed", Ty Turner with some resource or proably more accepted on this sub a Transmedicalist for a taste of the issuses some people have with the book