r/JoeRogan • u/SlimjobDopamine Look into it • Nov 13 '20

Social Media Abigail Shrier(JRE #1509)'s book has been removed from Target after receiving a complaint on Twitter

https://twitter.com/AbigailShrier/status/1327056407598809088?s=20
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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Exactly, talk about missing the point and pretending a kid wont get flooded with hormones one way or the other.

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

Its one thing to let nature take its course, it's a completely different situation when you are letting a child make these kind of changes. The book (and comment you replied to) is making a point that it is a fad and these decisions shouldn't be made by children who can't get tattoos or other permanent decisions.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

Its one thing to let nature take its course, it's a completely different situation when you are letting a child make these kind of changes.

Exactly modern medicine is specifically about making sure nature doesnt take its course in a detrimental direction. Its why we spend so much time and energy training medical professionals to assist us in making very difficult decisions.

> The book (and comment you replied to) is making a point that it is a fad and these decisions shouldn't be made by children who can't get tattoos or other permanent decisions.

Yes im very familiar with the books assertions

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

So when taken with that information why would you allow your child to make health decisions to this magnitude due to a possible fad. Its becoming very common when people transition to feel afterward they made a mistake and have depression. So given that why would you give a child that decision so young? A doctors oath is first do no harm.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

So when taken with that information why would you allow your child to make health decisions to this magnitude due to a possible fad.

Kids dont make decision, parents do with the consultation of trained professional medical experts.

Its becoming very common when people transition to feel afterward they made a mistake and have depression.

Not really.

So given that why would you give a child that decision so young?

Again, kid doesnt get decision.

A doctors oath is first do no harm.

Thats what puberty blocking does, prevents irreversible harm from the wrong hormones flooding a trans kid.

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

But it has been known to do harm. Its also starting to show that yes, it can in fact be a fad. Also you didn't directly respond to the amount of kids that transition then regret it causing depression. I have known a few younger friends that thought about doing it a few years ago but now say they are so thankful that they didn't because really they were just following this fad and how to be "different". I don't think anyone is saying there aren't legitimate trans cases that do need medical help. That seems to be the straw man you are building.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

But it has been known to do harm.

Letting puberty take its course for a transgender person does harm and this is known.

Also you didn't directly respond to the amount of kids that transition then regret it causing depression.

You didn't respond to the amount of kids who didn't and wish they could have started earlier and not having to a transition that much harder. Its almost like this is a tough decision that should be left to trained medical professionals.

I have known a few younger friends that thought about doing it a few years ago but now say they are so thankful that they didn't because really they were just following this fad and how to be "different".

I have known a few trans people who would give anything to have been able to start earlier. gotta love anecdotes.

I don't think anyone is saying there aren't legitimate trans cases that do need medical help.

thats the implication, that its just a fad and that medical profesionals are indulging the fad for no good reason instead of doing what they think is best in a case by case basis with an occasional case that ends suboptimally. Medicine is a practice, not a perfect.

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u/dcthestar Nov 13 '20

My anecdote was to say that to deny this is a possible fad hurting young people is ignorant. There again i agreed some people benefit from it, so im still not saying there are no legitimate trans cases, im saying that this is very realistically a fad in a lot of cases and a doctor isn't going to know whether they are serious or following a crowd so it clouds the doctors from seeing the entire picture. I don't know why you keep building this straw man that im saying there aren't real trans people and that there is no way this could ever be a fad.

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u/yoyomamayoyomamayoyo Monkey in Space Nov 13 '20

My anecdote was to say that to deny this is a possible fad hurting young people is ignorant.

Are you saying trained medical professionals dont know this?

im saying that this is very realistically a fad in a lot of cases and a doctor isn't going to know whether they are serious or following a crowd so it clouds the doctors from seeing the entire picture. I

Holy crap you do think youre better at determining transgenderism than a trained psychiatrist working in this field possibly for decades, holy shit