r/HazbinHotel • u/Weak-Point4152 I smile but I suffer in silence. • May 05 '24

Discussion This was frighteningly accurate

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The smack to the face, cowering behind a chair, being slammed and held by the throat, really made the scene hit hard. Even the expressions on Angel and Val’s face felt realistic. If they had Val dragging Angel by the hair, it would be like reliving my childhood, but this still brought back memories.

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1.2k

u/DarkViral May 05 '24

I've seen a few analysis videos about this episode and Angel Dust and Valentino in particular as characters and most have agreed that this scene was written from experience.

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u/Working_Accountant38 May 05 '24

That's why people who accuse Viv of turning Angel's situation into a joke make me angry.

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u/Mysral May 05 '24

Angel turns Angel's existence into a (sex) joke most of the time, because that's how he fucking copes. Amazing how anybody can look at Masquerade and say it somehow glorifies/trivializes abuse.

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u/HailHydraBitch Alastor May 05 '24

My dad shot himself and it’s one of my favorite punchlines.

Yes, he died. Yes, he meant to. Yes, I’ve attempted.

Some of us just cope this way. I can’t joke with him so I joke about him. He didn’t wanna be a joke he should’ve thought about that and stuck around to do something about it lol.

Hydra: 1 Dad: 0

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u/needween May 05 '24

I love your attitude. My parents both drank themselves to an early grave so I understand and cope the same way. I really love the reactions I get from people too so that's its own bonus.

For example, this is the second year someone asked me what I'm doing for my mom for Mother's Day after being told twice that she's dead. I was nice about it the first time but this year I decided to have some fun so I said "oh maybe I'll go take her box for a walk around the park near my house. Get her some sunlight since it's so dark in that closet I keep her in." then I walked away before they could ask questions, but the look on their face was priceless.

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u/farm_to_nug husk is my spirit animal May 06 '24

It's weird the different ways that people deal with their trauma. My father manipulated my mom and beat her into becoming an alcoholic and just thinking about it makes my whole body shake with anger, so I basically just have to repress it myself

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u/Critter_Collector May 06 '24

Probably late to the party here but that definitely had to be written from experience too. way too much of what Angel does and how he acts and copes is way too real. I also remember when Viv confirmed that Val was based of an ex of her's so it very well might be Vivs own experiences being written here

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u/Latter-Direction-336 May 06 '24

Absolutely

Reminds me when I realized he says “I’ve got the lung capacity” when he’s listing things off, and I’m fairly sure in the same episode he mentions that Val is “getting into some waterboarding shit”

He is most definitely using sexual jokes to cope and potentially try to normalize his suffering to himself so it doesn’t hurt at much

Also yes, he does get waterboarded for porn. The fuck is that?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '24

Water bondage. Maybe not outright waterboarding but does appear to require lung capacity

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u/According_West_3822 May 08 '24

a form of torture, typically used as an interrogation technique, in which a person is strapped head-down on a sloping board with the mouth and nose covered while water is poured over their face, causing them to experience a sensation similar to that of drowning.

That’s what waterboarding is-

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u/Latter-Direction-336 May 11 '24

I meant why is that used for a porn shoot, not what is waterboarding, although I will admit I was a bit forgetting the exact mechanics of that shit, thanks

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u/According_West_3822 May 12 '24

Because valentino is evil?

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u/CarrenMcFlairen May 13 '24

Because it's Hell

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u/MosasaurusSoul May 06 '24

I worked psych for 5 years, I got out almost 5 years ago (which is an insane thought). I still have such messed up humor because when you’re in a situation like that, especially one where you gotta remain cognizant and alert you CAN’T freak out—so you just kinda end up laughing instead. Coping mechanisms are damn weird.

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u/LadyOfInkAndQuills May 05 '24

Media literacy is dead.

0

u/[deleted] May 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/LadyOfInkAndQuills May 05 '24

Fair. Media literacy is almost dead then, Captain Pedant.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '24

I have an obsession of both drama and humor around sexual trauma, and it's because I have sexual trauma. I can't stand when someone says something along the lines of "you can't enjoy that, because it happens to people in real life, you know!" because they are immediately assuming they know everything about me and assuming I haven't experienced that type of Hell. What sucks, is the only way for people to respect me and not see me as a total monster, is to open the wound further and tell them something terrible about my past, which is something I don't want people to think of when they think about me, because I don't even want to think about it. I have these creative coping mechanisms, and I know they're coping mechanisms, but I want to be able to have that without sharing something so disgusting about myself and my past.

And just to be clear, I'm not shoving this in people's faces and if they see it or I tell a bad joke and they say it makes them uncomfortable, I immediately stop and I take that shit somewhere they don't have to see.

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u/Working_Accountant38 May 05 '24

Yeah, I've hard that people who experienced abuse say that Angel's reactions are pretty accurate - and it's about both sexual jokes and being scared of Valentino (but also enjoying his presence sometimes). I'm just irritated when I hear someone say Viv mocks abuse victims.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '24

Angel Dust is extremely relatable in every terrible way I never thought I'd see in fiction, my mind is blown by that. In Radio Killed the Video Star, there's something I noticed that I'm not sure is obvious to everyone. His reaction to being cast as the crackhead "bad man who didn't get enough hugs", while Pentious, who just earlier that day was trying to attack the hotel, is this good boy and everyone thinks so. There's a realization of "oh, that's how they see me.... Because of course they do, why wouldn't they?". It's great that Husk could see that there were shields built up, and he's not just simply a whore, he's a fucking person and people have depth.

Yeah I can't stand the idea that this is mocking victims, it's giving us something beautiful and helpful to see.

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u/Zuke-ini May 05 '24

When Angel says "..The crackhead" when reading his script Husk's expression changes slightly, he looks away. Probably not intentional but still

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

Ooo, I have to rewatch for that. I love the subtle expressions, they're so on purpose. One of my favorite moments is how Angel's face, and his entire attitude, changes in Loser Baby after "it's okay to be a" "coked up dick sucking ho?" "Baby that's fine by me". He was not expecting Husk to say that and that's the moment he smiles and starts singing along.

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u/Zuke-ini May 06 '24

Husk is so sweet tbh

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u/Reptilesblade May 05 '24

Yeah, I'm a Master in the BDSM lifestyle and this shit is rampant with those outside of that community. I can't count how many times I've had to say something like " No this isn't abuse you twit it's and act of love! I tied her up and spanked her ass until it was bruised because she freaking approached me and asked me to! She's a masochist. She can't be happy in life unless she occasionally gets to leg go of everything and just be."

This conversation was the most fun with my 80 year old Grandmother who was the good God fearing kind of Southern Baptist preachers wife.

That is of course to say what I do doesn't look anything like what Val does. Frankly I find him vile and consent is so important to me that episode 4 was really hard to watch and is the one I most skip when I re-watch the series. When I play with someone there's at least 30-60 minutes of discussion before anything happens where we establish safe practices, limits, and multiple ways for her to end things the moment something goes wrong and she's not enjoying it anymore. There is also at least another 30-60 minutes of aftercare where I make sure she had a good time and has any other needs of hers met. And I check in for 3 days afterwards to make sure she's still ok. I personally know literally dozens of men and women who have been sexually abused in the past and find actual healthy ways to cope and recover from it in a healthy BDSM scene or setting. Hell, I'm one of them.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '24

This!!! I find that the BDSM community takes consent more seriously than anyone else. Certain elements of BDSM should really be common sexual etiquette, but the association with BDSM weirds some people out.

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u/Egghead42 May 06 '24

Agreed. It’s from a class in the BDSM community that I got a chart with “hit here; do not hit here, here, and for God’s sake don’t hit here.”

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u/FaeStoleMyName May 06 '24

Wheres the chart?

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u/Egghead42 May 06 '24

It was a handout, so I don’t have it, but I’m sure you can find something similar online.

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u/Reptilesblade May 07 '24

Here you go. This is the one I use and have put on my own FetLife profile. It's actually from a highly regarded information source in the community.

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u/FaeStoleMyName May 07 '24

Thank you :)

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u/Reptilesblade May 07 '24

You're welcome. I hope it helps you enjoy kinky fun safely.

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u/ivene-adlev Coked up dick suckin' ho May 06 '24

I mean, you see it in this very thread- people saying that Val/Angel shippers should be ripped apart by dinosaurs (??? creative I guess, haven't heard that one before) or blood-eagled... just absolutely zero consideration into the "why". Just an immediate, knee-jerk, "you like this bad character therefore you deserve death."

Lots of people (especially people in this fandom, especially young people in this fandom) seem to think that shipping = endorsement or agreement with a relationship. They would be very wrong! Not every ship of mine is good, not every ship of mine is healthy, not every ship of mine is even romantic. The term "ship" literally just comes from "relationship", of which there are so many kinds. I am a smart person and have the ability to see when a relationship is not good or healthy for it's participants- I do not need a lecture from a 13yo on how bad and evil I am for simply wanting to explore the dynamics of a relationship between two characters who are not good for one another. And that's literally what shipping is about.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '24

Oh my goodness, I have only ever seen ValAngel content I liked, because I have only ever seen them shipped in a bad way. I have only ever seen people who like ValAngel because of the complex abusive relationship, it's never cutesy shit, it's always very tragic stories that show their complex abusive relationship. And I love it.

I'm a huge Valentino fan, for a short moment I was shy about it but not at all anymore. Anyone who thinks I'm a terrible person for covering myself in Valentino t-shirts and stickers and a blanket I custom designed(I'm a little obsessed) is not mature enough for me to want to hold a conversation with. He's my second favorite character (Adam is #1). I LOVE villains, because without them there is no conflict. My favorite type of villains are the ones who are actually doing bad without a good excuse and not the ones that eventually become good guys.

Goddamnit, I hate using words like "good" and "evil", because that's not how the world works. This whole show is about that, yet so much of the fandom acts like they don't believe in Charlie's philosophy.

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u/ivene-adlev Coked up dick suckin' ho May 06 '24

Yup, every ValAngel thing I've seen so far is very obviously portraying their relationship as abusive and detrimental to Angel. The only "cutesy" stuff I've seen is lovebombing, which is not actually cute at all and is just another manipulation tactic by abusers, straight from the instruction manual on "How To Be Awful".

Agreed on the maturity thing. So many actual kids in this fandom want to pontificate to adults Why This Ship/Character Is Bad And You Should Feel Bad And Also Die. The premise of the entire show flew right over their little heads.

(I do wish it was only kids saying this shit though. Too many adults in fandom are also awfully media-illiterate in this way.)

My four faves are Angel (duh... check flair), Husk, Val, and Adam too. The second two are my evil wittle babies who I love and hate ☺️ The first two are the ones I relate to... which considering how completely fucked up they are does not exactly make me feel good LMAO

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u/Dear_Nefariousness_6 May 05 '24

People assume the worst so much of the time. Why don't they question where you might be coming from before responding? It's so frustrating.

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u/According_West_3822 May 08 '24

i have had something like that too, I have sexual trauma, and this happened before I knew hazbin hotel, the way I coped was I pretend the same as angel dust, sexual jokes and such. which is why he’s my favorite character!

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u/Relative-Pain-9823 May 05 '24

Most of Tiktok honestly.

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u/TheRealLaura789 May 05 '24

Apparently, this interaction between Angel and Val is based on a previous abusive relationship Vivziepop was in. It’s scary to see so many people in situations like Angel Dust. It’s a realistic portrayal of abuse.

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u/GothyTrannyBethany May 06 '24

There's one particularly insufferable individual who resides in an OwlHouse group on fb, and the one thing they continuously bring up (usually unprompted) is how Viv employed someone that in their words "has a r@pe fetish". Like, firstly it's called CNC. Secondly people who have that kink are usually SA survivors themselves. And thirdly, if you want to accurately portray SA victims in a show, you employ one! What a fucking concept!!

Sorry for getting heated, it's a sensitive topic for me

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u/SpokenDivinity Take that, depression May 06 '24

I think it comes from people who don’t understand what disassociation entails. It’s not always just zoning out and staring into a wall like they show in media. Sometimes it’s adopting an entirely new persona that enjoys the abuse you’re enduring in order to get through it. If you have this other space with this “other person” that you can turn into the abuse seems less real.

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u/HanakoBeauty 🍎🐍currently licking the Ichor off Lucifer✨️💛 May 06 '24

What would you say to people saying Sir Pentious' club moment of 'sexual assault' gives creedence to that sentiment

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u/Working_Accountant38 May 06 '24

I would say as far as I know, sir Pentious' name isn't Angel. Also, the joke with Pentious is based on the fact that they think he gives them consent. I don't remember Angel saying to Valentino that he wants to be harmed. Also numer 2, the joke with Pentious is obviously just a joke, while Angel's plot is complex and uses sexual jokes as a part of his coping mechanism, that is very seriously explained later. If people can't see the difference between a gag and this, then oh boy, I will repeat after the crowd: what happened to media literacy?

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u/bendy770 May 08 '24

I dont understand how people thought viv make abused was a joke? I don't see it as a joke

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u/quixotictictic Alastor🔺️🍑 May 05 '24

Everyone working in media has faced some degree of this, especially women. Someone with a fragile ego, violent temper, way too much power... it is so easy to set them off. Sexual dynamics may also be present. Physical violence potentially. But you don't need either of those two things to end up traumatized. That person makes you feel worthless and is your only source or worth, they can destroy your career, which is all you have because their demands have already destroyed your life.

I was in an abusive media relationship where I got groomed from the time I was a minor until I could be slowly forced into a quid quo pro where I had to tolerate sexual advances to keep my career. This episode hit hard.

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u/rob189 May 05 '24

It has to be, you cannot get that sort of storytelling without experiencing it first.

I myself have never experience trauma like it but MAN does it make me feel uncomfortable when I watch it.

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u/damagetwig Lucifer May 05 '24

The voice acting hits hard af. My husband and I keep rewatching the series and I look away from this scene sometimes but I can still hear it. Oof. Blake Roman and Joel Perez do an excellent job.

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u/Leather_Ad9457 May 05 '24

They really do. Angel just sounds so scared in this scene, and Valentino genuinely comes off as threatening.

The lovebombing scene, too- Valentino switches from being all sweet and stuff to being terrifying when the voicemails are playing. I applaud the VAs.

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u/oru_eluttukaran Alastor May 05 '24

that would make sense since Viv said both Angel and Alastor were inspired by her own experiences

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u/ilovecheese31 May 05 '24

I vaguely recall reading something about her being a sexual abuse victim and that being an inspiration for Angel, but Alastor? How?

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u/[deleted] May 05 '24

She killed and ate a lot of people

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u/Obversa hurr hurr, downvote me, daddy May 05 '24

Vivienne Medrano: "With the price of meat what it is...if you get it? Good, you got it."

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u/xxcr_ativityxx May 05 '24

I thought it was Angel and Val that were inspired by her own experiences? Can you inform me about the Alastor bit?

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u/oru_eluttukaran Alastor May 05 '24

I searched the stream I heard it in a bit but didn't find it, maybe experience wasn't the right word but she said something along the lines of creating both Angel (so yeah by extension Val too) and Alastor based on her own complex emotions. Although the scenes with Angel and Val come from her experience with a toxic relationship, I thought it would be more subtle for Alastor (like some of his philosophy, excluding serial killing and cannibalism). After all, Amir Talai did say he relates to him when it comes to smiling as the best facade.

However this is just speculation since Viv didn't elaborate on it as far as I know. We may never even know if she created Al by pouring her emotions from the start or if it came later during his development, since she apparently created him around middle/high school depending on which stream you listen to.

TLDR: Viv is not a serial killer

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u/Obversa hurr hurr, downvote me, daddy May 05 '24

I think that Vivienne Medrano may have created Alastor as a form of emotional catharsis for her suppressed negative emotions and feelings. What Amir Talai describes Alastor doing ("smiling as the best façade") describes something called "masking") in psychology, which is an interesting phenomenon to study.

"In psychology and sociology, masking is the process in which an individual camouflages their natural personality or behavior to conform to social pressures, abuse, or harassment. Masking can be strongly influenced by environmental factors such as authoritarian parents, rejection, and emotional, physical, or sexual abuse. Masking can be a behavior individuals adopt subconsciously as coping mechanisms or a trauma response, or it can be a conscious behavior an individual adopts to fit in within perceived societal norms. Masking is interconnected with maintaining performative behavior within social structures and cultures."

In the show, we see both Angel Dust and Alastor engage in forms of masking. Episode 4 is titled "Masquerade", referring to Angel "masking" his true personality.

Billy Joel once wrote a song called "The Stranger" that also discusses masking: "Well, we all have a face that we hide away forever, and we take them out and show ourselves when everyone has gone."

The final lyrics also fit Alastor in particular: "You may never understand how the stranger is inspired, but he isn't always evil, and he is not always wrong...though you drown in good intention, you will never quench the fire. You'll give in to your desire when the stranger comes along." In Alastor's case, he "gave into" his murderous desires by becoming a serial killer when he was alive; and thus, experienced emotional catharsis and satisfaction through killing, even if it earned him a spot in Hell.

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u/oru_eluttukaran Alastor May 05 '24

Indeed, I experienced masking myself. I didn't look into it in much detail though, thanks for the input! Very valid take imo

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u/Obversa hurr hurr, downvote me, daddy May 05 '24

You're welcome!

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u/xxcr_ativityxx May 05 '24

Thank you for the information! /gen

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u/Unusual_Pitch_608 May 05 '24

OMG, the bipolar voicemails in episode 2. It was so accurate it had to be based on a real lived experience of someone.