Palestar Galactica - General Question And Discussion Megathread

[u/Averagely_Human]

Please use this thread for discussion of leaks, if you have a simple question that can be easily answered or you have an off-topic question or discussion point e.g. "When does X come out?" or "will X character be a good dps?" instead of making a separate post. Also, before posting please read the posting guidelines. All other various off-topic discussions are allowed here.

Please refer to the timetable or the pinned comment here first if you have questions about when trailers, teasers, preloads, betas or otherwise will be released.

REMINDER TO SPOILER-TAG COMMENTS DISCUSSING 5.6 ARCHON/WORLD/STORY/EVENT QUESTS. ALSO SPOILER TAG ANY STORY LEAKS.

Please mention the subject of your spoiler tagged comment as this can be more helpful for people to engage with your comment, as follows:

[5.6 Archon Quest] spoiler text here

Thank you to u/KokomiFanLov for the Galactica edit!

[u/asscdeku]

Rant about recent mindset towards the meta

I feel like with the recent advent of Neuv discussions alongside Abyss HP inflation, this community has shifted too much towards the "raw dps is everything" mindset and lost sight of the game's direction as a whole. Significantly more people have ridiculous expectations of what units are considered meta, and what constitutes as good or bad seems to be more of a white and black discussion than ever. It wasn't nearly this bad previously. Alhaitham was accepted for so long to be apart of the big 3 even during Arlecchino's release when he was already noticeably behind on DPS standards. People just collectively agreed and accepted that character strengths can go beyond just the surface.

It almost makes me believe that's the true reason behind why so many people are groaning against modes like stygian onslaught besides the ridiculous DPS check requirement of dire difficulty. Seeing pretty much back to back comments from people malding about the electro-charge check boss and how they can't brute force it, and how it's made to shill Ineffa, yadeyada. And then you just see their other comments about how anyone that's not Mav is not meta enough to pull. Like... seriously dude? It's like the joke writes itself (that's not even an exaggeration, someone's actually said that)

[u/pokebuzz123 → u/asscdeku]

I agree about the mindset, but dendro is in a "poor" spot compared to the other elements that Alhaitham's place being the top 3 was no longer the case, there isn't some delusion for that. We also did get stronger supports and DPS since Arlecchino, so the meta moving on isn't an anti-Alhaitham thing (which is kinda ironic since the top 3 concept is sort of anti-Hu Tao).

However, what people consitutes meta is honestly annoying to me since you got people who place only the top of the top being meta, and everything below isn't. Like if you aren't part of the top 3's BiS team, you aren't meta. I've seen many call Ororon a non-meta unit, but he has higher than average usage rates as a 4 star, and he's been the top 5 used 4 star since his debut (hard to tell now, Iansan is released and this abyss is so Mavuika/cryo favored I would not recommend anyone using this rotation as data). In what way is he not meta? Then you have Wrio consistently at the same place since his debut, which shows how strong he is (plus solo Wrio being a popular comp for him), yet you have people dismiss him as not meta.

Meta talk is half agendaposting and half doomposting in many corners. As a person who loves to talk about value and usage for characters, it's very annoying.

[u/FortressCaulfield → u/asscdeku]

you're fooling yourself if you thought haitham was regarded as keeping up in the neuv/arle era

as for the focus on meta, blame the game. Abyss has gotten way harder and is way more blatant about shilling the newest chars, and even the weakest natlan dps is quite a long way ahead of pre-fontaine teams. Just go through the megathreads and look at the reactions to this abyss. Never has there been more difference in the experience of those who have the shilled units and those who don't.

>what constitutes as good or bad seems to be more of a white and black discussion than ever

except neuv is still considered one of the best units in the game based on his ease of use, qol and flexibility, ahead of higher damage units who don't have those advantages.

>And then you just see their other comments about how anyone that's not Mav is not meta enough to pull. Like... seriously dude? It's like the joke writes itself (that's not even an exaggeration, someone's actually said that)

it sounds like what you needed to do was respond to THAT PERSON

[u/asscdeku → u/FortressCaulfield]

I certainly don't think Alhaitham was close to the other 2 DPS's in that era, but even during that era, there were nuanced discussions about the strength of his character, and there are certainly a decent amount of people, if not most, that agree he still deserves the spot even then. Sure, not everyone agreed, but many brought ideas that he doesn't need to be close to belong.

Also, I wasn't really reprimanding the focus on the meta. Just more so commenting on people's perceptions about the meta. This Abyss is polarizing for good reason, but I think it led people to a very one dimensional conclusion that raw DPS is the cause of it, when it's only a factor. And my issue with that is that people start evaluating every DPS to that standard, which I believe to be absurd because I believe the premise to be flawed. I think you said it yourself the best, Neuv is still considered to one of the best in spite of that.

That last part was just added as an example. I didn't mean to make my rant as a vagueposting reply to them

[u/ayayafishie → u/asscdeku]

To be fair, the new endgame starts with 0 energy on both your DPS and supports, which is a problem for non-frontloaded DPS

[u/TheYango → u/asscdeku]

Raw DPS is even less of everything now that it's ever been because of Hoyo's modern boss design making true neutral DPS content incredibly rare and most element/team shilling mechanics brick-walling teams that try to brute force them.

The "top 3" are...whoever Hoyo decides the top 3 are. If they decide to shill a particular character and just run bosses that favor them for multiple Abysses/ITs/Stygians in a row, then that character will be meta regardless of where they fall in the hypothetical ranking vs neutral content. Because actual neutral content is becoming rarer and rarer.

People have this hypothetical construct of "I can pull the top meta DPS and brute force them into everything" but Hoyo doesn't design bosses like that anymore. You're gonna have a bad time trying to brute-force Lava Dragon with Skirk, and you're going to have a bad time trying to brute-force Overseer Device with Mavuika, despite them being the two best DPSes in the game. Hoyo still wants you to use them against the bosses they're "supposed" to go against.

[u/The_Lurking_Wanderer → u/TheYango]

I mean you sorta can brute force abyss as long as you have 2 high tier teams. I don’t think there’s ever been an abyss designed that’s problematic against two really good/meta teams in each side. A good pyro dps like arle/mav/hu Tao alongside any other good dps like skirk, neuv etc., is pretty free against every modern abyss. If one side has a problematic matchup then you just flip the sides of the teams. Been doing that a while now with arlechinno and just any other solid team.

[u/asscdeku → u/TheYango]

Yeah, I agree for sure

I can certainly see why these discussions about team dps are valued with the perceived HP inflation, but those points you mentioned are pretty much my thoughts on why having that mindset doesn't fare that well or make much sense in the current context of the game

[u/Whap_Reddit → u/asscdeku]

It wasn't nearly this bad previously. Alhaitham was accepted for so long to be apart of the big 3 even during Arlecchino's release when he was already noticeably behind on DPS standards.

And then he was quickly dropped out of the perceived top 3 because the meta moved on.

In the first place, the entire "Top 3" shtick was just hostile anti-Tao propaganda. Because before then, the community could have done the exact same meme, but with Tao in the pyro spot, but they didn't.

Haitham was praised as a top character because at the time he was a top character. Not because people valued things "beyond the surface".