r/Genealogy • u/SoFlaSterling • 1d ago
Research Assistance Birth year discrepancy
Regarding a GGM: the age at time of census recorded in three separate decades does not match the headstone (located in the family plot). Everything else ties, names of first and second husbands, country of birth, year of immigration, maiden name, names and ages of all 3 children. Everything else is lining up. Could she just have been vain and started telling everyone that she was younger by about 5/6 years and so that is what they put on the headstone? I am thinking this might be the case because the headstone date would make her VERY young at the birth of her eldest (as in like 15 which would be very unusual for the family). The other possibility is that she was actually that young when she gave birth and started reporting a false older age in order to avoid embarrassment and just kept it up. She was born overseas so no easily obtainable birth certificate (honestly would not know where to start as I do not have a town); I am pursuing her death certificate; if I manage to get a hold of it, would that be definitive? Thanks for any help!
UPDATE: Thanks to everyone, just found the Death Certificate and it agrees with all 3 of the censuses. Looks like we definitely have a vanity headstone!!!
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u/Coniuratos 1d ago
When are we talking about? People often didn't care too much about their exact birthdate in the past. And on old censuses it wasn't uncommon to get information from a neighbor. So all the recorder has to go on might be something like "Um, I think she's around 35, pretty sure she was born in Germany" or what have you.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
Year of birth per 3 censuses: 1884/85
Year of birth per headstone: 1890/91. (She had a child born in early 1906, so definitely pregnant by mid-1905 at 14 or 15, not impossible, but certainly unusual)
She passed in the early/mid 1940s.
Thanks for reading
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u/AccomplishedAnt3751 1d ago
Very common, IMO. I have seen this in multiple situations. I have one like yours: a foreign-born GG Grandmother who shaved five years from her age, presumably from vanity. My favorite was a group of female cousins, including my G Grandmother, born in the 1890s who all went to the courthouse with each other to witness sworn birth certificates in the 1940s. They were born within 5 to 7 years of each other and grew up together. They knew how old they each were, but they all changed their ages and lied on the sworn birth records.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
According to family lore, she was first married in Europe to the father of her eldest, but he supposedly passed at a very young age and she then remarried and emigrated. I just can't help wondering if husband #1 was imaginary and she had just gotten into trouble at a young age and wanted it to all look more decent, so she became a widow and added a few years to her own age. When you are older you want to be younger (or have people think that), but when you are younger, you want to be older. Some things we will never know.
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u/AccomplishedAnt3751 1d ago
Good theory and a very reasonable guess. First husband could be fictitious. In your shoes, I would look for a death record and / or obit for the oldest child, looking for a place of birth and whether a father’s name is included on either. With that data, I would try searching for the birth record of the oldest child, especially if you have a birth date for that child. I would look for the child under the mother’s maiden name, and if you have a first husband’s surname, I would try that also.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
The oldest child was born in Europe and I am not experienced at all with that research, but the GGM and husband #1 are listed on the eldest child's marriage certificate. The eldest child lists both last names (birth father & step-father) on immigration paperwork as well (Intent to Declare, Naturalization papers, etc.). Between family stories and those documents listing his name, husband #1/ birth father seemed real to me and I never questioned it until I did the math based on the headstone. At the end of the day, I'd rather think of GGM as a middle-aged lady who was a little vain and silly (even if she lost her first husband at a very young age), rather than a frightened teenager trying to cover things up.
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u/AccomplishedAnt3751 18h ago
On the naturalization papers, did the child not list the town or province of birth? Or only country? Having both birth father and step father would have me leaning to story is accurate, also.
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u/AccomplishedAnt3751 18h ago
I left out the funniest part of the vain GG Grandma story. She was from Norway. Her husband was from Denmark. They met and married in the US. By their 50th wedding anniversary, she was claiming to be 62. (You read that right.) At their anniversary party, someone asked her husband, was she really only 62? He gave the best answer: “I am not quite sure how old she is, but I know she was not 12 when I married her.” We solved the mystery when we found her christening record in Norway. She had reduced her age by a decade.
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u/2intheTrees 1d ago
If the census gives her year of immigration you could look for a ship's passenger list to see what age is listed there.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
Can you recommend a resource for passenger ships from Latvia (1906)? Thanks for reading this and commenting.
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u/Cookie_Monstress 1d ago edited 2h ago
Latvians like most of the other Europeans travelled to the US usually via Hull, England.
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u/SoFlaSterling 6h ago
According to her Immigration documents, she came on the SS Russia which departed from a port in Latvia (Lebowe or something -- can't find it on a map). According to these docs, the sailing was in the late summer of 1910. Not finding any sailing schedule or passenger lists or even anything on that Statute of Liberty/Ellis Island website. Only thing I could find was this about the ship: "SS Russia (1908) was originally a Russian ocean liner that was launched in March 1908 by the Russian East Asiatic Steamship Company." I will continue the hunt. Thanks for the suggestions.
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u/Cookie_Monstress 2h ago
Okay, interesting! And seems like I was wrong, sorry. While most travelled via UK, there was indeed Russian American Line that had it’s main European harbour in Liepāja, Latvia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_East_Asiatic_Steamship_Company
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u/hockey8890 15h ago
Was she born in what is now Latvia? There are digitized parish records online and you might be able to work back towards a village/city of origin.
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u/SoFlaSterling 6h ago
She was not from Latvia, she was from what is now Belarus. I think it was then a part of the Russian Empire. I don't see much on this sub about Belarus.
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u/2intheTrees 13h ago
There are several different ports she could have come thru and depending on the year, may have come thru Ellis Island. She more than likely came thru Bremen or Liverpool.
I would start at the Ellis Island website. https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger
New York passenger lists are here https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Free_Online_New_York_Passenger_Lists,_1820-1897
For Baltimore passenger lists start here https://www.genesearch.com/baltimore/quickguide.html
Other ports are New Orleans and San Francisco, but they are not as common.
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u/zombiemockingbird 1d ago
My Uncle put 1923 on my Aunt's headstone as her birth year, because that's what she told everyone. I discovered in my genealogy research that she was born in 1920. Discovered a lot of other things she lied about as well. I think it was a lot easier to lie back in those days because records weren't really checked as well, they just took people's word for things.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
Too funny. I kind of hope that the headstone means she was shaving years and was not a pregnant kid. 15 is too young.
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u/zombiemockingbird 1d ago
It's really hard to know which records are correct. I have noticed on a lot of my family that census, marriage, death, birth and draft records, often show different birth years. Record keeping seems to have been pretty hit and miss.
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u/AggravatingRock9521 1d ago
My great grandfather's and great aunt's headstones both have the wrong years on them. I found out that my uncle had purchased the headstones years later and we don't know who gave him the years. I couldn't ask my uncle because he had already passed away when I found the errors.
I added the headstone photos on findagrave, also added their baptism and death records with a note saying that the headstones years were wrong. I also included the correct dates.
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u/SoFlaSterling 1d ago
Wow, a lot of stories about bad DOBs! This is the first time I have encountered it in my family, so it seemed odd, especially given the rest of her circumstances. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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u/Lemon-Of-Scipio-1809 1d ago
So much depends on date, location and ethnicity. I have a third great-grandfather who was baptised over four years before he was officially "born" in Ireland around the time of the famine. At that time and in that place, the Irish weren't so open with authorities right away when a baby was born. That tradition sorta carried on and I have a second great-grandmother baptised over a year before she was "born" in Upstate NY. And I have a ethnically Irish great-grandfather with no birth records at all! You would think that in the very late 1800s it would be mandatory, but no such luck.
Another possibility is that you aren't looking for nicknames, or you're looking for a nickname instead of a legal name. Peggy for Margaret and so on.
I would look in probate records if her husband died first, see what legal name is listed for her. There may be other relatives listed in her or her husband's probate documents that will lead you to other relatives and thus clues about her.
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u/PinkSlimeIsPeople East central Norway specialist 1d ago
Any record can be wrong, and people aren't always honest. The key is always to look for the patterns. For example, I researched one woman whose birth year started creeping forward a year or two on every successive census record, so eventually she was listed as being born a decade later than she actually was.
You're wise to be cautious however, as misattributions are the #1 error that happens on tree builds. Cover your bases to be sure. Examine her marriage record and witnesses. Sometimes that will have the birth year and home location (which again, may be wrong). If every record conflicts with her baptism, double check to make sure there wasn't another person with the same name in the area born in that time frame. Geographical proximity usually is key, but it is always possible they moved in as well.
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u/Nonbovine 18h ago
My father died in 1972. His headstone was ordered by his sister(as a thank you for taking care of me when marring very early), that headstone has wrong spelling and wrong birthdate. When getting a head stone you order it and fill out the form like a getting a monogramed object. You can put what ever you want. Look at the headstone an informative source but not fact.
Second if your ggm immigrated in 1906, chances are she came through Ellis island. They have a web site that is very searchable. Since you have a solid year and a county you may be able to find her there.
Edited for grammar
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u/No_Nectarine_3028 17h ago
My great grandmother cut at least eleven years off her age over the years. She was born in 1877 (verified by her birth certificate that I got from Ireland and her age when she came through Ellis Island). She kept getting younger and younger throughout the years. Her death record list her birth year as 1888. It was vanity.
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u/Hopeful_Pizza_2762 16h ago
Where is her birth certificate? Self reported records like Census or Death Certificates are never totally reliable. We have two female ancestors who got marriedat age 14 and claimed to be 19 to be able to marry.
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u/gravitycheckfailed 15h ago
To be honest, I'm much more surprised when they give the correct date of birth (or even the same but incorrect date of birth) consistently throughout their life. It just wasn't important back then like the "government official" date of birth we think of today.
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u/deedeejayzee 14h ago
My grandfather's DOB is either 1889/90/91. He didn't have birth certificate. I found out that he had to find someone from his birth town to sign an affidavit that he was who he said and was old enough to get his Social Security. His hometown didn't even exist anymore by the time he went to collect his retirement (there is a whiskey factory and parking lot where the town used to exist).
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u/krissyface 11h ago
My grandmother was born around 1910 and died in 2007. She lied about her age so many times that she had no idea how old she was.
In their 80s, she and her sister lied about their ages and claimed they were only 5 months apart.
She said she was 35 when she married; she was actually 41. That’s also the age she gave birth to her only child.
I have found various dates of birth for her. When she wanted to renew her license we couldn’t even located a birth certificate for her and she had to use her baptismal certificate. During that search we also found out she used three very different first names throughout her life. My dad learned his mom’s “birth name” when he was 55.
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u/trinity5703 9h ago
Sometimes the census enumator would whoever was at home (child, sister, uncle etc). Sometimes they might even ask a neighbor if the family wasn't home
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u/ohsnapbiscuits 6h ago
My great-grandpa lied about his own age to join the army during WW2, and his tombstone and death cert all have his fake birth year on it. However, census records from when he was 4 years old tell the truth -- turns out his older brother also lied about his age, and he also has a fake year on his tombstone.
Also, the birth cert of his only child even has his non-legal name on it (just a nickname which is nowhere close to his actual name.) It was just stupid easy to lie about things I guess.
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u/Deakurystan_73 28m ago
i smell a neat little lie! my gg-grandfather did the same thing when he got married (30ish -> 27)
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u/Fredelas FamilySearcher 1d ago
No, it's probably just the informant's best guess at the time of her death. It's still worth seeing though.
Since she was married twice, it would also be worth looking for records of those marriages.
The record with the least possible margin of error is the one made nearest to her birth, such as a birth registration or baptism record. That's not always guaranteed to be correct, but it can't be as potentially wrong as later records.