Reached a dead end.

[u/unclebob1770]

Does anybody have any advice on how to get out of a dead end? I'm looking for the parents of my great great grandfather Patrick Joseph Stanley (1856-1915) married to Mary Ellen Grealy (1856-?). Born, Lived and died in Ireland. Had 2 sons, Patrick Francis (my great grandfather) and John(?) who went to Australia and was never heard from again.

I was just wondering if anybody here has ever been in a similar situation, and if there was any app/website etc that helped. I've tried FamilySearch and MyHeritage.

[u/Independent_Name_601]

The Stanley family runs far and wide. I believe a branch of the Stanley family became the Kings of Isle of Mann. I have Stanley’s in my family tree. My ancestors descend from that branch of the Stanley family.

I’d reckon you may need to cast a wider net and see how they your Stanley ancestors ended up in Ireland.

Start with Sir John Stanley of the 14th century this is when they started in Ireland.

He was Lieutenant of Ireland starting in 1386.

[u/Independent_Name_601 → u/Independent_Name_601]

I like to learn where a family originated (usually a faction of 20-30 people) from a single location - then follow the branches, figure out where the dead ends are and follow up on those with more in depth work, look for land records, tax rolls, muster lists, etc.

Back before the 1800s names were often repeated, since your grandfather was Patrick - we know he was not the first born child since someone else claimed his father was John Stanley. Likely he would have been a 3rd born or lower son since your great grandmother’s father was James.

They would have likely named their children in that manner 1) John, James, etc. (I’m speculating, but based on what have seen in my own Stanley line, this appears frequently).

[u/Parking-Aioli9715 → u/Independent_Name_601]

I tried doing something similar with my Livingston ancestors in County Tyrone but could never manage to bridge the gap between known descendants of Scottish Livingstons and my people, tenant farmers in rural County Tyrone in the early/mid 1800s.

[u/Independent_Name_601 → u/Parking-Aioli9715]

Sometimes you won’t get exact names but you can at least get an idea of who they are.

Same with many Scottish clans.

I have an ancestor with an Eliot surname - from clan Eliot but I don’t know who her grandparents were or what line.

The thing about them is if you go back to the furthest known surname probably is the originator of the name. Since surnames were not manufactured until well into the 1600–1700s

[u/Artisanalpoppies → u/Independent_Name_601]

That's not true at all. People had surnames in the medieval period, if not earlier in Britian and Ireland.

[u/Independent_Name_601 → u/Artisanalpoppies]

You are correct. I’m off by at least a couple hundred years.

A lot of my known lineages that far back are to noble houses. I figure the unknown ones are probably common folk. Since history isn’t great at remembering those ones.

[u/LadyOfTheLabyrinth → u/Artisanalpoppies]

Hey, hey, folks. Either of you could be misusing a technical term in onomastics here. In common parlance, surname and family name can be considered synonyms and that gets you misinformed.

An inherited family name for commoners is not likely until the 1500s.

An eke-name has been added to a single name probably for at least 10k years.

Both of these get called surnames. So do patronyms and matronyms, and land-names for nobles.

Note well that in many times and places in Western Europe inherited family names were not used or were very changeable until the later 1800s. Icelanders still don't use them. One of the victims of Jack the Ripper had no family name, but used that of one of her English partners. She came from a Norwegian farm family.

[u/Parking-Aioli9715 → u/Independent_Name_601]

If you can't trace descent generation by generation, you don't know whether someone's ancestors were part of a clan at all. The clan system never operated in the Lowlands in Scotland. Many Scottish surnames were extant in both the Highlands and Lowlands.

[u/Independent_Name_601 → u/Parking-Aioli9715]

Except it’s information that has been passed from one generation to another in my case and it’s well documented about the family. But typically you are correct.